ENIC

[Superhudd]

He barely played for us. Lennon, Kaboul and even Ade will have done more for the club by the time they leave. That's right, Adebayor has already made the same number of appearances as Sandro.

But is despised by the majority.. there is a difference with Ade.. Polar opposites, saying that I wouldn't begrudge Ade a thnkyou on the site, joint statement from the chairman and the trust.

Even still I am not saying he should get a fanfare or anything. Just something on the site every time a player leaves.. as I said its a cold fcuking world we live.

If the club won't be our voice in thanking him, then the I'd hope the trust should do it.

 

[Superhudd]

Really dont see the fascination with this guy. Then again barely seen him but 25m sems a vast sum of money

Hazard a guess they got the names mixed up.. Schneiderlin more plausible

 

[DubaiSpur]

I agree with the guys above.

We have a good set-up but it's only one transfer window with the new manager . He's addressing our defensive issues , something most are happy about and is looking to give the forward players a chance to express themselves.

I hate losing games and losing favourite players just as much as anyone, but I do think we could be onto something here with this Poch guy so let's not stink the place out ( WHL ) and instead, let's show some proper support to the manager , coaches and players .

I agree with you, as long as it doesn't include the chairman and the DoF, who I feel have let Poch down this summer. Badly.

 

[metalgear]

^ it certainly looks that way but you'll never now how deep the water goes.

given that the club seems to gag-order everyone on the way out, lets use Sandro's performances at QPR as a gauge of whether this was a good deal or not.

i know i'll still be watching out for 'the beast'

 

[wiziwig]

I agree with you, as long as it doesn't include the chairman and the DoF, who I feel have let Poch down this summer. Badly.

Dubai - I have read your views in a number of your well written posts regarding, Levy's lack of support for Poch .

I agree with the crux of your argument that there are times to loosen the purse strings and we shouldn't always be looking for a maximum return on player values, be it incoming or outgoings and that the first transfer window under a new manager, is more often than not, such a time.

But looking at our summer purchases, I'm not to disheartened other than for our failure to get in another striker . I don't trust Adebayor at the best of times but in an ACN season? :| He will be away all of January and a good part of February too . There's the possibility of him picking up an injury and of course there's the drama's if Togo do well, meaning post tournament party time!

We have, Soldado who has not clicked and we have a young Harry Kane. Perhaps Poch and Levy believed the Wellbeck loan deal, a deal they both wanted was very much on, and that United selling to the Goons caught us out?

Of the six deals done , it all looks pretty good to me . As I said in the previous post, I do feel prioritising the defence was the right thing to do . A goalkeeper who was an able first choice at another premeirship club has been bought in, this doesn't come cheap, we could quite easily have just stuck with Brad or promoted the young Archer .

The full-back situations has been addressed with decent young players in Davies and a promising Yedlin at a later date.

Central defenders Dawson and Fryers have gone and we now have two in for them, in Fazio and Dier . Poch wanted Moreno (Espanyol) as his center-half but he got injured and we then tried for, Mascherano (Villareal) but ownership issues knocked that one on the head so we got another highly rated player in Fazio, who by all accounts is a top pro.

These new defenders, will also have a new defensive midfielder offering them protection . Sandro who has been struggling for form since his injury, has been sold off and replaced by a highly rated player, Stambouli for half the fee, £5m ? On the defensive midfield position , we all know that Schneiderlin was Poch's #1 choice but the deal couldn't be done and a £5m outlay now on Stambouli, I believe will not hurt our pockets enough should we decide to persevere with a future Schneiderlin move.

My fear is that if results go against us and it's there for all to see, that there's no chance of fourth place, rather than support the players we the fans will revert to blame. There's already plenty of rumblings similar to yours being directed at the chairman over this window being expressed on social media sites .

Looking at it from the outside , I can't see Poch being to unhappy. He's at the best job in his short managerial career and working with a very good squad, and I believe he will get things right if given time.
I don't see it as Levy not backing Poch thus far, not yet anyway.

 

[milo]

This seems like the most relevant thread to post this in

[TWEET]507500318956208128[/TWEET]

 

[Raziel]

The problem with most fans is they think its monopoly money, just spend it.

And to add to the issue, they don't understand at least 5 more clubs in our league have more monopoly money than we do ...

 

[DubaiSpur]

Dubai - I have read your views in a number of your well written posts regarding, Levy's lack of support for Poch .

I agree with the crux of your argument that there are times to loosen the purse strings and we shouldn't always be looking for a maximum return on player values, be it incoming or outgoings and that the first transfer window under a new manager, is more often than not, such a time.

But looking at our summer purchases, I'm not to disheartened other than for our failure to get in another striker . I don't trust Adebayor at the best of times but in an ACN season? :| He will be away all of January and a good part of February too . There's the possibility of him picking up an injury and of course there's the drama's if Togo do well, meaning post tournament party time!

We have, Soldado who has not clicked and we have a young Harry Kane. Perhaps Poch and Levy believed the Wellbeck loan deal, a deal they both wanted was very much on, and that United selling to the Goons caught us out?

Of the six deals done , it all looks pretty good to me . As I said in the previous post, I do feel prioritising the defence was the right thing to do . A goalkeeper who was an able first choice at another premeirship club has been bought in, this doesn't come cheap, we could quite easily have just stuck with Brad or promoted the young Archer .

The full-back situations has been addressed with decent young players in Davies and a promising Yedlin at a later date.

Central defenders Dawson and Fryers have gone and we now have two in for them, in Fazio and Dier . Poch wanted Moreno (Espanyol) as his center-half but he got injured and we then tried for, Mascherano (Villareal) but ownership issues knocked that one on the head so we got another highly rated player in Fazio, who by all accounts is a top pro.

These new defenders, will also have a new defensive midfielder offering them protection . Sandro who has been struggling for form since his injury, has been sold off and replaced by a highly rated player, Stambouli for half the fee, £5m ? On the defensive midfield position , we all know that Schneiderlin was Poch's #1 choice but the deal couldn't be done and a £5m outlay now on Stambouli, I believe will not hurt our pockets enough should we decide to persevere with a future Schneiderlin move.

My fear is that if results go against us and it's there for all to see, that there's no chance of fourth place, rather than support the players we the fans will revert to blame. There's already plenty of rumblings similar to yours being directed at the chairman over this window being expressed on social media sites .

Looking at it from the outside , I can't see Poch being to unhappy. He's at the best job in his short managerial career and working with a very good squad, and I believe he will get things right if given time.
I don't see it as Levy not backing Poch thus far, not yet anyway.

First of all, that ship has sailed. Please don't assume otherwise: the chance of Schneiderlin agreeing to join us over our rivals (who will by that point have swooped in with their 'monopoly money', as Raziel calls it) are exactly zero, especially when you consider that his ardent desire to rejoin Poch this summer will have waned by then when he has more options. According to the reports that emerged in late July, he apparently turned down Arsenal in favour of a move to the Lane. That will NOT happen again. In my mind, we've permanently missed out on at least one (if not both) of the manager's primary targets, and much like Moutinho, can now only watch as the player in questions transfers elsewhere and struts his stuff there, only wondering how different things might have been.

Secondly, I think this is a danger worth considering. I am well aware of the unhappiness with this summer's business floating around both here, in real life and on the Fighting **** forum (I'm not a massive social media guy so don't know much about those realms), and the danger is that some of us won't just restrict ourselves to blaming the chairman and the DoF when results go astray but will let our ire spill over into the on-pitch players as well (particularly the players brought in this summer that don't perform well, who I'm worried will swiftly bring down the 'cheap replacement for a better target' jibes if they fail to perform). I'm in two minds about it, to be honest: On the one hand, I think it's a betrayal of the collective decision we made to back the manager (and, by extension, his players) no matter what, but on the other I can understand the temptation to point to our negative net spend and the evident 'second-choice' nature of some of our buys as ample reasons for on-pitch failure compared to our rivals in the top five or six, who by comparison to us have spent shedloads of money and improved on several positions with world-class players who were (presumably) first-choices for their managers. Even Everton have outspent us by a huge margin in this window, so that is a worry, and I'm not sure whether to continue on with putting my views out there (contributing to the melee when it eventually happens) or just refrain from doing so and hope that the more optimistic (or stolidly pro-Levy, whichever way you look at it) posters on both forums and in the wider Spurs-supporting world can calm down the dissenters. If not, we're in for some troubling repeats of last season shortly, as I doubt we as a team will have significantly improved by the time the next big boys rock up at the Lane.

Overall, we'll have to disagree on Poch not being too unhappy. Yes, if we were totally honest and told him that his needs and wants were a distant, distant annoyance when compared to spending on the stadium and keeping us in the black when it came to net spend, then perhaps this summer's window could conceivably have been accepted by him with good grace. If we sold him that guff about 'ambition on the pitch' and 'adding to our already talented squad' without mentioning the massive elephants in the room (selling to buy, and paying for the stadium), then he as every right to feel let down by this summer's events, even more so given the continuation of the 'ambition' narrative the club's spinning, which has repeatedly drawn so many of our fans into the hope that we would spend to realise that ambition.

I saw a post over on the Fighting **** that, in reflection, bears some relevance to this whole 'backing the manager/sacking the manager' discussion. Can't remember where it's from, and can't access it because the site itself seems slow as hell today, but its basic gist was as follows: leaving aside all considerations of Poch being backed or not being backed for a moment, it would be very helpful if the club was just honest with the supporters for once. If it stopped spinning the 'ambition' narrative, and gave the fans, the manager and the players the fullest, most honest summary of the club's position: namely, that the stadium is first and foremost, offering as it does a way for the club to earn more money and a way for ENIC to increase the fee for the club they'll eventually get from whoever buys us. In pursuit of that aim, transfer net spend will be negative every window, and the over-arching aim of the club on the pitch will be to essentially tread water in upper mid-table/ between 4th and sixth until the stadium is paid for. That is the supreme ambition of the club for now. If the club made such an honest statement ,not only would it provide clarity to the people who are presently grumbling about paying a thousand plus pounds for a season ticket and getting this sort of Moneyball profit-making activity in return, I suspect it would also make it easier for the people at the top of the club itself to accept that reality and go full steam ahead on the new stadium without worrying about maintaining a pretence of on-pitch 'ambition'.

Stop lying to Poch, stop lying to the fans, and stop lying to yourself about showing 'ambition' on the pitch and showing 'backing' to the manager. All it does is create disappointment when that ambition fails to materialise and we end up with Benji Stambouli and a net negative transfer spend on deadline day. Be honest: it might surprisingly be the best alternative.

I like that post, and I feel that in view of your own commendable post on this summer's dealings, it's worth bringing it up here to display to the other denizens of this board.

 

[billyiddo]

Dubai - i seem to recall there being a very clear message when we appointed Pochetino and that was that he was expected to develop the talent already in the squad and to bring about an attractive/attacking style of football. It seemed a much different stance to our recent past where there was always a lot of emphasis on top 4 and Champions League football.


sounds kind of like what you are wanting to hear and what you want the manager to be aware of, going by your post above?


on the mention of other message boards ... i also post (less frequently) on a mixed supporters board, the spurs section there seems to have a far far less negative attitude towards the window and ive barely seen one post that would fit in with what you have seen on here and TFC. a few are miffed about not getting a striker in tbf

 

[Andyandy]

it would be very helpful if the club was just honest with the supporters for once. If it stopped spinning the 'ambition' narrative, and gave the fans, the manager and the players the fullest, most honest summary of the club's position: namely, that the stadium is first and foremost, offering as it does a way for the club to earn more money and a way for ENIC to increase the fee for the club they'll eventually get from whoever buys us. In pursuit of that aim, transfer net spend will be negative every window, and the over-arching aim of the club on the pitch will be to essentially tread water in upper mid-table/ between 4th and sixth until the stadium is paid for. That is the supreme ambition of the club for now. If the club made such an honest statement ,not only would it provide clarity to the people who are presently grumbling about paying a thousand plus pounds for a season ticket and getting this sort of Moneyball profit-making activity in return, I suspect it would also make it easier for the people at the top of the club itself to accept that reality and go full steam ahead on the new stadium without worrying about maintaining a pretence of on-pitch 'ambition'.

Stop lying to Poch, stop lying to the fans, and stop lying to yourself about showing 'ambition' on the pitch and showing 'backing' to the manager. All it does is create disappointment when that ambition fails to materialise and we end up with Benji Stambouli and a net negative transfer spend on deadline day. Be honest: it might surprisingly be the best alternative.

I largely agree with this.

The stats on net transfer spends, profiteering from transfers, buying only young players with potential say it all really, why can't we stop spinning and be direct with the fans.

My gripe is that our budget never stretches to just one world class player. A single £50m very high salary earner who we can build the team and whole club marketing around. In ENIC's system we must develop them and then sell them on the next summer.





Sent from my iPad using Fapatalk

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

But which 50mil player would come to us? Plus as a guess that player would want 200k a week. Wouldnt be great for the dressing room.

I actually think we have that player in Lamela

 

[billyiddo]

people really shouldn't base their opinions purely on net transfer spend as it's only a very small part of what is a much bigger picture. we operate on a 'spend what we make' / break even basis overall as a club - when we had smaller total outgoings and we were making more money (relative to that) we were routinely 'overspending' in the transfer market - transfermarkt.com has one summer/January combined window down as -80 odd million for example. as we've got better on the field our players wages naturally rise in accordance - couple in prep work for the new stadium and the build of the new training ground, as well as other things we're probably not privy to then it's quite obvious that our total outgoings have risen at a quicker rate than our income - hence the lack of available transfer funds and what appears to be a sell to buy policy.

to my knowledge we very rarely see a huge amount of profit when the yearly accounts were published/deliotte money report comes out - if we were doing that and still seeing us break even on player transfers id be concerned, but right now all the figures appear to line up so we can't really grumble (at least not if you're on board with being run on a sound financial footing)

 

[Rorschach]

people really shouldn't base their opinions purely on net transfer spend as it's only a very small part of what is a much bigger picture. we operate on a 'spend what we make' / break even basis overall as a club - when we had smaller total outgoings and we were making more money (relative to that) we were routinely 'overspending' in the transfer market - transfermarkt.com has one summer/January combined window down as -80 odd million for example. as we've got better on the field our players wages naturally rise in accordance - couple in prep work for the new stadium and the build of the new training ground, as well as other things we're probably not privy to then it's quite obvious that our total outgoings have risen at a quicker rate than our income - hence the lack of available transfer funds and what appears to be a sell to buy policy.

to my knowledge we very rarely see a huge amount of profit when the yearly accounts were published/deliotte money report comes out - if we were doing that and still seeing us break even on player transfers id be concerned, but right now all the figures appear to line up so we can't really grumble (at least not if you're on board with being run on a sound financial footing)

It may be that the accounts are setup to be that way. Less declared profits means less tax. If there is excess it is channeled into this, that and the other to show minimal profit in the books. The choice to have a zero net spend on player trading is just that, a choice, and we could reallocate funds there as opposed to some other option if that was the boards wishes. Just spitballing here of course.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It may be that the accounts are setup to be that way. Less declared profits means less tax. If there is excess it is channeled into this, that and the other to show minimal profit in the books. The choice to have a zero net spend on player trading is just that, a choice, and we could reallocate funds there as opposed to some other option if that was the boards wishes. Just spitballing here of course.

After agents fees we probably don't make the money anyhow

But more importantly I couldn't care less what a player costs if he turns up and performs for us. I've seen stinkers that cost a lot like Bentley and Bent, and I've seen bargains perform really well like Walker arguably Ade (transfer fee wise).

People seem to want to judge teams on money rather than performance now.

I'd live us to sign a few worldies who wouldn't but not at the detriment to the squad or team and not to the long term future of the club. United front 4 are being paid £1.2m a week between them with is ore than our first 11 and probably first 18 combined!!!!

Players will follow money but ultimately there rarely worth it... And they still cost money to dispose of. Bogarde/Torres.

The profits we make are nearly always on players we don't want. We have sold the likes of Bale and Modric but they were double your money and then some positions from players who wanted to leave. Better to look at the likes of. Caulker and Livermore we cost us nothing and Made us £18m... Which was then spent on other players. Some of whom will stay and be great and some will sold on, typically for a profit which the gets reinvested.

I'd love to know where people think the money is going...

 

[Jurgen the German]

I really hope Levy doesn't get trigger happy (or Levy happy even?) and boot Pochettino out because we fail to finish in the top 4. If it's clear that we are making good strides, playing good football and improving our overall play, then for once, stop obessessing over 4th and let the guy have at least 3 years at the club to actually try and build a team. Chopping and changing so many managers is not good for the club. I for one still believe it is important to have continuity, to anyone that says Chelsea don't, well they have an owner with bottomless pockets who isn't afraid to spend ****loads of money just to keep up and more importantly to try and blow the opposition out of the water.

 

[Jordinho]

He hasn't sacked anyone yet purely for failing to finish above a certain position in the league. It has been because of behind the scenes issues and only after a long period of the fans calling for change.

 

[Rorschach]

After agents fees we probably don't make the money anyhow

But more importantly I couldn't care less what a player costs if he turns up and performs for us. I've seen stinkers that cost a lot like Bentley and Bent, and I've seen bargains perform really well like Walker arguably Ade (transfer fee wise).

People seem to want to judge teams on money rather than performance now.

I'd live us to sign a few worldies who wouldn't but not at the detriment to the squad or team and not to the long term future of the club. United front 4 are being paid £1.2m a week between them with is ore than our first 11 and probably first 18 combined!!!!

Players will follow money but ultimately there rarely worth it... And they still cost money to dispose of. Bogarde/Torres.

The profits we make are nearly always on players we don't want. We have sold the likes of Bale and Modric but they were double your money and then some positions from players who wanted to leave. Better to look at the likes of. Caulker and Livermore we cost us nothing and Made us £18m... Which was then spent on other players. Some of whom will stay and be great and some will sold on, typically for a profit which the gets reinvested.

I'd love to know where people think the money is going...

Yes I'm sure this is true. And I'm sure the way deals are structured over many years with bonuses, addons and who knows what makes the calculation of fees almost impossible to get accurate. It is however a rough way of judging our net spend and it keeps the Sky totaliser guy happy (I ****ing hate that stupid totaliser name).

Money doesn't win football matches to be sure but I believe the gripes for those unhappy with the window are focused more on the fact that the manager was not backed fully in the market. Whatever your opinion on the players that were bought, and they look sensible purchases to me, the players that the manager coveted most were not bought. And IMO money always talks and it is just a matter of how much is required for all other difficulties to go away.

My own opinion on the transfer window just past is that we should have pushed the boat out for Schniederlin by making them an offer they could not refuse. For our new manager in his first transfer window this would have been a statement of intent and a vote of confidence all wrapped up in one. The new TV money would have covered the purchase. I know people will jump on this and say there is a big risk with every player purchase and they would be right but in this instance I think the risk is mitigated by the history the manager has with the player. Anyway that is not how we roll so go Benji!!

 

[Raziel]

I really hope Levy doesn't get trigger happy (or Levy happy even?) and boot Pochettino out because we fail to finish in the top 4. If it's clear that we are making good strides, playing good football and improving our overall play, then for once, stop obessessing over 4th and let the guy have at least 3 years at the club to actually try and build a team. Chopping and changing so many managers is not good for the club. I for one still believe it is important to have continuity, to anyone that says Chelsea don't, well they have an owner with bottomless pockets who isn't afraid to spend ****loads of money just to keep up and more importantly to try and blow the opposition out of the water.

I think the point is, if you have sugar daddy money, you can afford turnover.

We don't, and while I don't believe Levy has been overly trigger happy (despite perception), I agree we need to (fans included, which I think is probably asking for more than Levy's patience) let Poch have an opportunity, and as long as we are seeing a system taking shape, give some allowances for maybe not finishing exactly where we want.

Personally I think Levy/Poch should concentrate more on Cups, as imo, if Poch wins a cup, it automatically will give him a little more breathing room on results.

 

[Jurgen the German]

He hasn't sacked anyone yet purely for failing to finish above a certain position in the league. It has been because of behind the scenes issues and only after a long period of the fans calling for change.

Agree to disagree

 

[Armchair Expert]

I think the point is, if you have sugar daddy money, you can afford turnover.

We don't, and while I don't believe Levy has been overly trigger happy (despite perception), I agree we need to (fans included, which I think is probably asking for more than Levy's patience) let Poch have an opportunity, and as long as we are seeing a system taking shape, give some allowances for maybe not finishing exactly where we want.

Personally I think Levy/Poch should concentrate more on Cups, as imo, if Poch wins a cup, it automatically will give him a little more breathing room on results.

I don't think he has either and this perception lies in the media. Its simply a stick that weak journalism creates for other fans to bash us with on forums.

I'Ve been happy with just about all Levy's appointments. They all made sense to me at the time, as well as it making sense when all of their contracts were eventually terminated. The handling of the Jol sacking wasn't the best but apart from that I see no problems in either our conduct or managerial appointments.

When ENIC took over we were trash. Top 10 was considered hugely successful. Now we've been transformed into about the 6th best team in the league and have been sustaining our position as best of the rest for a good 8 seasons or so now. We also have about the 6th biggest turnover. I don't understand what people want - with income 100's of millions shy of Emirates Marketing Project, Uts, Arsenal, Pool etc we should be regular champions league fixtures? We broke into the top four for a while because some young players (in the mould of those we have now) turned into genuine world class talent - hence some are now champions league winners with Real Madrid.

How people can say we should have signed Schneiderlin is beyond me. If Southampton won't sell him, they won't sell him. If we haven't got 65 million to spend on an individual player then man up and get on with it. Poch's interviews have said so far he sits down with Levy and Baldini and goes through targets. Doesn't suggest to me that the carpet has been pulled out from under his feet.

Unfortunately when you operate within your means and the govewrnment doesn't hand you a stadium, you have to pay for it. The training ground isn't an illusion and did cost money.
I find it quite incredible what people want: massively overspend on players, who belong to a club whose chairman has publicly stated aren't for sale, get top four despite having a budget miles smaller than those currently occupying the places, and every time a sexy name gets mentioned as a transfer target in the press massively overpay to secure his services.

I'M sorry, but people now using the stadium and portraying it in a negative light just as tool for Levy to maximise profit when his evil master plan is completed and he sells the club it just looks like spoilt children screaming in a toy shop because mummy won't by them the expensive car off the top shelf: some fans want to watch Spurs play and currently can't get ticket or afford the ST prices. Honestly, the stadium is now just part of a dastardly plan? Do me a favor! People also ranting about signing Strambouli when they've never even seen him play. Whats going on round here???? Jesus H. Christ!!!???