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Djed Spence

Muttley said:
I've never seen any evidence for that narrative about Spence though. I saw some Warnock comments a few years prior, but nothing to stain Spence's reputation since he moved Boro. In reality what probably happened is that Spurs had no UEFA football and were left with Porro, Emerson and Spence. Ange may have even wanted Porro and Spence last season, but didn't upset the apple cart with Emerson who was a model pro himself.
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Didn't the leeds manager say he had the ability but needed the aplication? Believe his youth team coach said similar.
As said, it wasn't just one manager that didn't fancy him.
 
SpurMeUp said:
This is black and white. The club shouldn't have signed Spence, or it was a well scouted signing that has come good? Which is it?

You can’t have it both ways where you’re criticising Levy for signing the player, saying we shouldn’t have, but also saying we should have signed him 😂
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Are you blind? I'm criticising the club for hiring Conte if we are going to sign a Spence. Jesus you're a bit simple aren't you? 🤣

Literally go and look through any of my posts regarding signings and you will see I've always advocated for bold under the radar signings, that is literally the model I espouse us following, what you can't do is follow that model and at the same time employ a manager like Conte especially with his very well known history.
 
Lemonade Money said:
The evidence is all the teams that had a look and said no.
Then you come up with a conclusion with even less evidence.
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I personally dislike the attitude angle because it's something that only gets levelled at young black players, usually with very cursory evidence. With Spence we know he had an issue with Warnock about 4 years ago, we have since never heard any complaints about his attitude.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. Ange isn't even claiming that so let's not as a fan base tar him with that brush.
 
Bishop said:
Are you blind? I'm criticising the club for hiring Conte if we are going to sign a Spence. Jesus you're a bit simple aren't you? 🤣

Literally go and look through any of my posts regarding signings and you will see I've always advocated for bold under the radar signings, that is literally the model I espouse us following, what you can't do is follow that model and at the same time employ a manager like Conte especially with his very well known history.
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So to be clear, you are criticising the club for signing the combination of Conte and Spence. But also think we should have been signing Spence. And you can't see the contradiction. Blindness you say :D
 
SpurMeUp said:
So to be clear, you are criticising the club for signing the combination of Conte and Spence. But also think we should be have been signing Spence. And you can't see the contradiction. Blindness you say :D
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I think we should sign players like Spence. I don't think we should hire coaches like Conte.

It's called a joined up recruiting system, the actions of the recruitment match the instincts and philipsphies of the coach. If they are in line we get the nonsense that was Spence being sent away by Conte.

If you look back at my posts at the time you'll see me saying Spence should be playing. This really isn't complicated. You seem to lack the ability to understand nuance.
 
Muttley said:
It's interesting reading the Spence conversation and not really piecing together the entire RB story at Spurs. When you think back, Trips was bought before Walker left in 2017 and then Aurier was bought in 2017. So we had Trips / Aurier and the emerging KWP, plus we bought Foyth.

However it was in 2021 that things changed. Trips left in 2019, KWP left in 2020 and in the summer of 2021 we then sold Foyth as well. We then signed Emerson on the last day of the transfer window in 2021, and tore up Aurier's contract. Spence joined in summer 2022 and Porro didn't join until Jan 2023.

This is definitely why Spurs haven't won trophies. We finished the 16/17 season with the league's best RB and an able deputy. It has then taken us to now before we can stand behind the credibility of our 2 RBs. That is 7 or 8 years of messing about. RB has been about the most unstable position in our side, and that is saying something.

Let's hope we can go 5 years with some stability from these 2. Perhaps if we sign a fantastic LB, we'll have this stability on both sides.
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The cost of signing players that aren't quite good enough is often understated imo.

It's not just the cost of the signing (and a likely sale at a loss) and wages. It's also the opportunity cost of not signing, playing and developing someone that could be good enough (or even better). Then potential issues with selling an unwanted player squad bloat etc.

Why I was quite happy to see the club be "patient" in January despite our rather obvious issues. The cost of getting signings wrong is massive.
 
Bishop said:
I personally dislike the attitude angle because it's something that only gets levelled at young black players, usually with very cursory evidence. With Spence we know he had an issue with Warnock about 4 years ago, we have since never heard any complaints about his attitude.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. Ange isn't even claiming that so let's not as a fan base tar him with that brush.
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A month or two back Ange was asked about Spence and literally said he had come back pre season with a better attitude/matured I can't remember the exact quote. It all adds up along with the loan experiences - And it has zero to do with being black.....
 
billyiddo said:
]

What do you mean said no? Did we loan him out with a view to selling him or was it to gain experience? If the latter then it's only Conte who cast him aside and that was politically motivated
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The fact that we kept loaning him out, so the team that had him should have loaned him for another season, but didn't. Leeds terminated early? Someone said Genoa had an option to buy. Ange cast him aside at first too.

www.standard.co.uk

Djed Spence set for Tottenham second chance under Ange Postecoglou

Full-back set to benefit from promising pre-season and the exit of Emerson Royal
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk
Spence has been plagued by accusations of a poor attitude during his career and Leeds terminated his season-long loan in January after he clashed with manager Daniel Farke.

Asked if Spence's behaviour had been a problem since he returned to Spurs, Postecoglou said: "You would know about it if it was. He wouldn’t be part of it if it was.

“But that’s probably something that, whether that was right or wrong, as a person and as a player, Djed has taken responsibility for and not allowed that to be part of the conversation this pre-season.

“For me and all the coaches, we’ve had absolutely zero issues with his attitude. He’s trained really well, he’s fit into the group really well.
“That’s on him. He’s the one who hasn’t allowed it to become an issue.”
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Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
 
Bishop said:
I think we should sign players like Spence. I don't think we should hire coaches like Conte.

It's called a joined up recruiting system, the actions of the recruitment match the instincts and philipsphies of the coach. If they are in line we get the nonsense that was Spence being sent away by Conte.

If you look back at my posts at the time you'll see me saying Spence should be playing. This really isn't complicated. You seem to lack the ability to understand nonsense.
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Agreed. :D
 
harr1984 said:
A month or two back Ange was asked about Spence and literally said he had come back pre season with a better attitude/matured I can't remember the exact quote. It all adds up along with the loan experiences - And it has zero to do with being black.....
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Maybe, but it's unconscious bias. You very rarely see it said about white players. It's just makes me a little uncomfortable...
 
harr1984 said:
A month or two back Ange was asked about Spence and literally said he had come back pre season with a better attitude/matured I can't remember the exact quote. It all adds up along with the loan experiences - And it has zero to do with being black.....
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He does have a point about how young black players are at times viewed..
 
afsoc4life said:
He does have a point about how young black players are at times viewed..
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Yes, I remember @Bishop having this debate with some posters about N'Dombele being labelled lazy, and it did make me think for sure.

But in this instance, I do think it's applicable that Spence has had to work on his attitude. But I credit both the club and Spence on how it's been managed as he is now going from strength to strength and it's great to see....
 
Lilbaz said:
Why only some black players and not others?
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Do you see it said about white players?

I think it's because that inherent stereotype exists outside of football and in the culture in general of young black men so when there is a matter of concern it's the first explanation that springs to mind.

As some have mentioned in this thread it might well be true in this case I don't know but I just feel a little uncomfortable with the surety it is stated with as that only seems to happen with black players.
 
Bishop said:
Do you see it said about white players?

I think it's because that inherent stereotype exists outside of football and in the culture in general of young black men so when there is a matter of concern it's the first explanation that springs to mind.

As some have mentioned in this thread it might well be true in this case I don't know but I just feel a little uncomfortable with the surety it is stated with as that only seems to happen with black players.
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Very good and imo important points.

Think Ange said it well when he said Spence needed to mature a bit (IIRC). Most of us can identify with not always being mature enough at that kind of age, and no amount of wages, attention or fame changes that.

I think most of the time that's a better way to talk about these things than labelling someone as having attitude problems with any degree of certainty.

We should all be careful about taking rumors and speculation as truth.
 
Kandi1977 said:
It's all on Conte. Unless he had in his contract that he'd only use players he'd signed, which is extremely unlikely, It's Conte not doing the job the club hired him to do. Spence had obviously been scouted, and deemed to fit both profile and style, and would have been a great fit for how we played under Conte too.
Frankly, his behaviour regarding Spence is like a fudging 3 year old not getting candy when he wants. Utterly ridiculous.
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When you put in like that Conte looks a perfect fit for a lot of our fans.
 
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