Djed Spence

[braineclipse]

Are you blind? I'm criticising the club for hiring Conte if we are going to sign a Spence. Jesus you're a bit simple aren't you?

Literally go and look through any of my posts regarding signings and you will see I've always advocated for bold under the radar signings, that is literally the model I espouse us following, what you can't do is follow that model and at the same time employ a manager like Conte especially with his very well known history.

I think that makes sense. Overall I want a more holistic approach, DoF, manager, scouts, board etc all with a more aligned approach.

But I also think that where we were, if we were going down the Conte route not supplementing that with some "club signings" like Spence, Sarr and Udogie would be negligent. Because you know Conte will be all short term, all here and now. Accepting that as the whole approach would have put us in an even worse position when he was eventually fired than what we ended up in.

Even with someone like Conte as the manager there has to be people at the club with a longer term focus, and I think they also need money/transfer budget to work with.

 

[Lilbaz]

Do you see it said about white players?

I think it's because that inherent stereotype exists outside of football and in the culture in general of young black men so when there is a matter of concern it's the first explanation that springs to mind.

As some have mentioned in this thread it might well be true in this case I don't know but I just feel a little uncomfortable with the surety it is stated with as that only seems to happen with black players.

What aid about white players? That they have the ability but have problems with aptitude? Madison isone that's getting it at the moment. Grealish gets grief.

 

[Bishop]

What aid about white players? That they have the ability but have problems with aptitude? Madison isone that's getting it at the moment. Grealish gets grief.

But they aren't described as having attitude problems...do you see the difference?

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Do you see it said about white players?

I think it's because that inherent stereotype exists outside of football and in the culture in general of young black men so when there is a matter of concern it's the first explanation that springs to mind.

As some have mentioned in this thread it might well be true in this case I don't know but I just feel a little uncomfortable with the surety it is stated with as that only seems to happen with black players.

I use to know one of the staff at Charlton and he thought that it was hard for the young black players due to their "mates", he said Palace had similar problems, not sure how true it was because he told me Lookman was going to Spurs when he was a kid there.

 

[Jurgen the German]

But they aren't described as having attitude problems...do you see the difference?

You’re probably right in that it gets attributed to black players more than white players. It should be a case by case basis, and sometimes a player is just lazy regardless of their skin colour. One that immediately comes to mind is Berbatov, notoriously lazy and didn’t work for the team but you could tolerate it because he was so good. Although Fergie clearly didn’t trust him in certain situations as he was left out of the CL final squad altogether.

 

[Muttley]

You’re probably right in that it gets attributed to black players more than white players. It should be a case by case basis, and sometimes a player is just lazy regardless of their skin colour. One that immediately comes to mind is Berbatov, notoriously lazy and didn’t work for the team but you could tolerate it because he was so good. Although Fergie clearly didn’t trust him in certain situations as he was left out of the CL final squad altogether.

lol - Berbs wasn't lazy. He was efficient.

 

[braineclipse]

lol - Berbs wasn't lazy. He was efficient.

He was both. Was it just a rumour or actually happened that he ran less than the goalkeeper for one game? One of very few players that could be true for.

Some similarities with Berbarov and Spence, languid chill style, never stressed, finds time when others get rushed, slick technique. Luckily Spence also puts in a lot of effort.

 

[Lilbaz]

You’re probably right in that it gets attributed to black players more than white players. It should be a case by case basis, and sometimes a player is just lazy regardless of their skin colour. One that immediately comes to mind is Berbatov, notoriously lazy and didn’t work for the team but you could tolerate it because he was so good. Although Fergie clearly didn’t trust him in certain situations as he was left out of the CL final squad altogether.

Has anyone accused spence of being lazy?

It was his macaronic tweet to warnock after getting promoted after forest got promoted that hinted at an attitude problem.

It may be a case that young black men have less respect for authority. When everyone is constantly telling them everyone is racist and they are a victim.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I use to know one of the staff at Charlton and he thought that it was hard for the young black players due to their "mates", he said Palace had similar problems, not sure how true it was because he told me Lookman was going to Spurs when he was a kid there.

Not saying anything here that you don’t know I’m sure
A lot of the black players come from genuinely poor backgrounds
It’s why players like Zaha are great for donating a % of their salaries to help other kids where they come from
It’s also why dele as another encore has his adopted parent who where able to offer him things his biological parents
The resemble its relevance is the influences that come on those areas to their kids and how hard it is of them
ledley talked a lot about getting the train to training at spurs and the impact it had on him financially and time wise as he came from Bow and the Tower Hamlts area
The kids that I know that made it locally all came from middle class or aspiring middle class backgrounds and had parental money and support behind them

 

[Bishop]

lol - Berbs wasn't lazy. He was efficient.

Kanoute who played for us a few years earlier and had a similar languid style was called lazy by the fans.

Has anyone accused spence of being lazy?

It was his macaronic tweet to warnock after getting promoted after forest got promoted that hinted at an attitude problem.

It may be a case that young black men have less respect for authority. When everyone is constantly telling them everyone is racist and they are a victim.

Or maybe they are used to being told they have an attitude problem whenever they object or question the status quo. Rather than you thinking it's about victim hood maybe, just maybe it's a real lived experience.

 

[Muttley]

Not saying anything here that you don’t know I’m sure
A lot of the black players come from genuinely poor backgrounds
It’s why players like Zaha are great for donating a % of their salaries to help other kids where they come from
It’s also why dele as another encore has his adopted parent who where able to offer him things his biological parents
The resemble its relevance is the influences that come on those areas to their kids and how hard it is of them
ledley talked a lot about getting the train to training at spurs and the impact it had on him financially and time wise as he came from Bow and the Tower Hamlts area
The kids that I know that made it locally all came from middle class or aspiring middle class backgrounds and had parental money and support behind them

I also think that getting a disproportionate amount of money at a young age can impact some people. It's a massive test of their character, and definitely changes some for the worse.

 

[Jurgen the German]

lol - Berbs wasn't lazy. He was efficient.

He wouldn’t run or stretch for a ball if it wasn’t perfectly placed for him to run onto.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Kanoute who played for us a few years earlier and had a similar languid style was called lazy by the fans.


Or maybe they are used to being told they have an attitude problem whenever they object or question the status quo. Rather than you thinking it's about victim hood maybe, just maybe it's a real lived experience.

I still think Berbatov could and should have worked harder.

 

[Lilbaz]

Or maybe they are used to being told they have an attitude problem whenever they object or question the status quo. Rather than you thinking it's about victim hood maybe, just maybe it's a real lived experience.

Or maybe a bit of both.

Spence seems to have turned it around and looks to be in line for an england call up in the next few months. Which i am very glad about.

 

[Lilbaz]

I still think Berbatov could and should have worked harder.

People thought greaves and hoddle should have worked harder. You get away with it if you are truly class though.

 

[Surfless]

But they aren't described as having attitude problems...do you see the difference?

To me it feels like there's been plenty of players at Spurs over the years who we were told had attitude problems or had to grow up.

To throw some in, irrespective of race or colour:

Hossam Ghali
Mido
Adebayor
Kaboul
Bentley
Bergwyin
Lo Celso
Ndombele
Romero
Stambouli
Bentaleb
Townsend
Dos Santos
Prince Boateng
Taarabt
Atouba


7 out of 16 there are black. So more or less half.

Not sure I agree with you Bish

 

[markysimmo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1891937721993617619

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

To me it feels like there's been plenty of players at Spurs over the years who we were told had attitude problems or had to grow up.

To throw some in, irrespective of race or colour:

Hossam Ghali
Mido
Adebayor
Kaboul
Bentley
Bergwyin
Lo Celso
Ndombele
Romero
Stambouli
Bentaleb
Townsend
Dos Santos
Prince Boateng
Taarabt
Atouba


7 out of 16 there are black. So more or less half.

Not sure I agree with you Bish

Loved Atouba the first fullback I ever saw trying step overs and dribbling in our penalty box and he was totally amazed when it didn't end well. I think you missed out Gilberto.

 

[Muttley]

To me it feels like there's been plenty of players at Spurs over the years who we were told had attitude problems or had to grow up.

To throw some in, irrespective of race or colour:

Hossam Ghali
Mido
Adebayor
Kaboul
Bentley
Bergwyin
Lo Celso
Ndombele
Romero
Stambouli
Bentaleb
Townsend
Dos Santos
Prince Boateng
Taarabt
Atouba


7 out of 16 there are black. So more or less half.

Not sure I agree with you Bish

What I find interesting is that a couple of them were just treated like crap by our club but they are the ones on the naughty step. Gio even named and shamed the club about what happened with him. Stevie Bergwijn never did but it was blatantly obvious he got himself out rather than deal with the double standards that were happening.

I think you mostly have a representative list there. You missed Jose and Conte though. Their attitude stunk the place out.

 

[thfcsteff]

I also think that getting a disproportionate amount of money at a young age can impact some people. It's a massive test of their character, and definitely changes some for the worse.

It impacts anyone who fits that criteria. I do not believe there are exceptions. I always said that ideally, no-one should be rich or famous before they're 25.