Davinson Sanchez

[DubSpur]

The manager should have the most important say on current players’ contracts being extended or not.

No he shouldn't. If Conte had wanted to get rid of a couple of players last year and he's now gone would that have made sense?
A manager's input should be "I want a player that has attributes x, y and z" and then the DoF tries to fulfil that. The manager shouldn't be doing anything with contracts.
If the manager's style doesn't fit in with what's in the squad then it's a failure from the DoF to get the right manager or the right players for the style.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Your going down another bunch of tangents now…
Tanganga extended contract was when? After he we into the first team 2 years ago… basically his first real pro contract

winks deal and Davies deal was in 2019… the right deals at the time

adding in new signings to the conversation… they all come with minimum terms and 5 years is normal middle ground. It makes sense assuming we believe we are buying quality players. That is economics. It’s economics of signing players. It’s not a Tottenham thing, it’s a football thing

Those signings were to help us push on. They have failed. That’s a club failing and a failing of the players

sacking Mou when we did was IMO 100% financial. It was all about how we could get rid of him and him wining a cup would have made that much more expensive.

Fair enough mate, can see your argument. Don’t fully agree but you make some good points.

 

[Raziel]

The manager should have the most important say on current players’ contracts being extended or not.

They should have a say in if they will play the player, if the club can figure out how to monetize the asset (say, ala CCV) without impacting the squad, not the managers call.

That said, I'd hope we look at the next manager and say, can you work with this

- Core squad - Romero, Bentancur, Deki, Richi, Skipp, Royal, Son, PEH, Kane (hopefully)
- Youth players we have invested in - Gil, Spence, Udogie
- Youth players in system - Scarlett, Devine
- Loan players we could sign - Lenglet, Danjuma
- Squad players - Davies, Dier, Perisic
- Players we are likely to move on - Sanchez, Sess, Rodon, Lo Celso, Winks, Ndombele, Reguilon

Outside of the moving on, can you (new manager) make that work with 4/5 incoming in summer, 2 in winter? some changes allowed but not full change in all categories? (we don't have budget)

 

[Bishop]

I can’t think of anyone else that fits your mediocre bracket that has had their contract extended???

You literally just said his name. Dier. Of course only applicable if he signs an extension.

Winks signed his contract extension in 2019 and at that time he was playing well and nobody would've moaned about the contract extension.

MAAATE! Winks hadn't played well since 2018 let alone 2019. I know you didn't enjoy that Frankenstein shambles of a midfield with Winks and Sissoko as a pairing. [emoji2961]

Don’t forget that £16m is wages
Your talking about a fee and wages for a new player
So that could be more or less… we don’t know
Dier is a huge conduit for the foreign players to the English ones due to his language skills. I think it has huge value form what I’ve read
He also is a steady eddy which a new manager may what in his squad
But… if we don’t buy a better player to start instead of him I’d be fudging worried

Interesting that you consider Dier a conduit. A conduit that hasn't actually achieved anything. So how successful is that conduit and how necessary is it for us? Because I see other teams who don't have Dier also using foreign players and seemingly doing well despite not having multi-lingual and emotionally capable Dier available to support them. Just maybe that facet has been overstated by his supporters as a plus point because they'd struggle to use his football abilities as one. [emoji848]

I do find it interesting that you only ever really hear about these additional non footballing attributes in players when their game on the pitch isn't doing their talking for them. [emoji102]


Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

 

[Finney Is Back]

No he shouldn't. If Conte had wanted to get rid of a couple of players last year and he's now gone would that have made sense?
A manager's input should be "I want a player that has attributes x, y and z" and then the DoF tries to fulfil that. The manager shouldn't be doing anything with contracts.
If the manager's style doesn't fit in with what's in the squad then it's a failure from the DoF to get the right manager or the right players for the style.

Absolutely…. The manager of the team pays with his job and therefore needs to decide on what players aren’t retained. The clubs needs to put a great recruitment structure in place (hint not Hitchen and a few part time scouts) and then listen to the managers views on what players need to go and what positions and types of players need to be recruited. Of course it also helps massively if there is something like continuity in managers in terms of playing styles.

 

[billyiddo]

No, what I’m saying is that we’re protecting value as a priority and offering deals to players who simply aren’t good enough. The cumulative effect of that is that you end up with a malaise and staleness running through the squad.

Take Sanchez. We signed him to a 6 year deal. Okay, fair enough despite the fact he came with question marks and played in a league several levels below the PL. We then extended his deal further within a year or two. What was the point other than to protect “value”?

In relation to Dier, he’s a good lad and a decent player. But he’s been here 10 years without ever establishing himself in a position or looking like a solid first teamer. How does that happen at a club aspiring to win things and compete at a high level. And at 28 or 29, will he really be content with being a “squad player”? I’m pretty sure I read he seriously thought about leaving when he was out of the team a few years back. With only a few years left of his career, I can’t see him wanting to warm our bench.

If we let players contracts run down and then lost good ones for peanuts then that would be a problem as well, iirc when Sanchez signed his extension he was off the back of a good spell and people were talking about being happy for Alderweireld to be sold as a result

 

[Bedfordspurs]

No he shouldn't. If Conte had wanted to get rid of a couple of players last year and he's now gone would that have made sense?
A manager's input should be "I want a player that has attributes x, y and z" and then the DoF tries to fulfil that. The manager shouldn't be doing anything with contracts.
If the manager's style doesn't fit in with what's in the squad then it's a failure from the DoF to get the right manager or the right players for the style.

Conte did get rid of players
We have so many on loan he didn’t want

 

[billyiddo]

Winks, Tanganga, Davies. All on extended contracts. Lo Celso on a 5 year deal. Moura on a 6 year deal. Ndombele on a 5 year deal. All on big money. It all points to a club trying to protect transfer value as a priority IMO. Similar to how we prioritise top 4 over trophies. Does Levy pick the team in the cups? No. But does he set the tone on what priorities are? You bet. I’d be willing to wager that contracts are incentivised a lot more heavily towards qualifying for CL than winning a pot. And the economics support that but that’s behaving far more like a business rather than as a competitive sporting outfit.

Sacking a manager 6 days before a cup final. Has any club ever done that before? The very strong rumour is that Jose wanted to rest players for the Southampton league game for that final and Levy disagreed because we still had an outside shot at top 4. That apparently was the straw that broke the camels back. Didn’t Jose also apparently say that were run as a business rather than as a competitive outfit?

Dier had one very good season in midfield. He’s been ordinary other than that. Not deserving of some of the brick he gets but not a very good player. Never has been, never will be at this point.

Levy’s approach has brought us a lot. Training ground, stadium. Improved League finishes. But we’re now at the point where I really don’t think he can bring us any further because everything is viewed through the prism of “economics first, competitiveness second.”

Young(ish) players having 5 year contracts when signing these days is pretty typical given the ffp rules and being able to spread the transfer cost over the length of the deal wrt accounts - there's a lot to moan about atm but i don't see it with a lot of this contract talk tbh. We should be doing everything in our power to move on players when they are deemed surplus but having players on 5 year deals when signing isn't a problem in of itself.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You literally just said his name. Dier. Of course only applicable if he signs an extension.





MAAATE! Winks hadn't played well since 2018 let alone 2019. I know you didn't enjoy that Frankenstein shambles of a midfield with Winks and Sissoko as a pairing. [emoji2961]




Interesting that you consider Dier a conduit. A conduit that hasn't actually achieved anything. So how successful is that conduit and how necessary is it for us? Because I see other teams who don't have Dier also using foreign players and seemingly doing well despite not having multi-lingual and emotionally capable Dier available to support them. Just maybe that facet has been overstated by his supporters as a plus point because they'd struggle to use his football abilities as one. [emoji848]

I do find it interesting that you only ever really hear about these additional non footballing attributes in players when their game on the pitch isn't doing their talking for them. [emoji102]


Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

It’s been stated by the players we have signed, not the fans

Dier has to upgraded upon but any manager with half a brain will what an element of stability and some allies. One who speaks multiple languages and seems to be connected to all the players is a sensible choice. Just don’t start him please (assuming we have signed a replacement)

 

[Finney Is Back]

They should have a say in if they will play the player, if the club can figure out how to monetize the asset (say, ala CCV) without impacting the squad, not the managers call.

That said, I'd hope we look at the next manager and say, can you work with this

- Core squad - Romero, Bentancur, Deki, Richi, Skipp, Royal, Son, PEH, Kane (hopefully)
- Youth players we have invested in - Gil, Spence, Udogie
- Youth players in system - Scarlett, Devine
- Loan players we could sign - Lenglet, Danjuma
- Squad players - Davies, Dier, Perisic
- Players we are likely to move on - Sanchez, Sess, Rodon, Lo Celso, Winks, Ndombele, Reguilon

Outside of the moving on, can you (new manager) make that work with 4/5 incoming in summer, 2 in winter? some changes allowed but not full change in all categories? (we don't have budget)

Depends on what the budget is? If Danjuma and Lenglet come in that is £41m to add to the £80m for Porro and Kulu. So we’ve spent the whole budget (and I’m not convinced we’ll have that much, especially with no CL and likely not even Europa money).

I’m not sure we can really afford to buy either Lenglet or Danjuma when we have a need for a proper left sided CB that can play in a two, a creative attacking midfield player and a new goalkeeper. Do I get to make the decision of what positions I need the budget to be spent on, or have those decisions made for me?

If I was a decent manager and being interviewed for the Spurs job and I was being told that I wouldn’t have any real say on what first team players the club would retain, or the positions in the team/squad that money would be spent on then I wouldn’t accept the job.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Depends on what the budget is? If Danjuma and Lenglet come in that is £41m to add to the £80m for Porro and Kulu. So we’ve spent the whole budget (and I’m not convinced we’ll have that much, especially with no CL and likely not even Europa money).

I’m not sure we can really afford to buy either Lenglet or Danjuma when we have a need for a proper left sided CB that can play in a two, a creative attacking midfield player and a new goalkeeper. Do I get to make the decision of what positions I need the budget to be spent on, or have those decisions made for me?

If I was a decent manager and being interviewed for the Spurs job and I was being told that I wouldn’t have any real say on what first team players the club would retain, or the positions in the team/squad that money would be spent on then I wouldn’t accept the job.

That would be a head coach rather than a managers job

 

[johnola]

They should have a say in if they will play the player, if the club can figure out how to monetize the asset (say, ala CCV) without impacting the squad, not the managers call.

That said, I'd hope we look at the next manager and say, can you work with this

- Core squad - Romero, Bentancur, Deki, Richi, Skipp, Royal, Son, PEH, Kane (hopefully)
- Youth players we have invested in - Gil, Spence, Udogie
- Youth players in system - Scarlett, Devine
- Loan players we could sign - Lenglet, Danjuma
- Squad players - Davies, Dier, Perisic
- Players we are likely to move on - Sanchez, Sess, Rodon, Lo Celso, Winks, Ndombele, Reguilon

Outside of the moving on, can you (new manager) make that work with 4/5 incoming in summer, 2 in winter? some changes allowed but not full change in all categories? (we don't have budget)

Excellent post Raziel. A very clear picture of where we are. And it’s far from hopeless. We also have Sarr.

 

[Raziel]

Excellent post Raziel. A very clear picture of where we are. And it’s far from hopeless. We also have Sarr.

Sarr was a miss, think I was debating if he was in youth or Core (leaning to core)

 

[Bishop]

Sarr was a miss, think I was debating if he was in youth or Core (leaning to core)

Whatever he is, he should be playing. The talent and potential he has is so obvious. His ceiling is ridiculously high. He needs to be getting more minutes on the pitch.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Young(ish) players having 5 year contracts when signing these days is pretty typical given the ffp rules and being able to spread the transfer cost over the length of the deal wrt accounts - there's a lot to moan about atm but i don't see it with a lot of this contract talk tbh. We should be doing everything in our power to move on players when they are deemed surplus but having players on 5 year deals when signing isn't a problem in of itself.

I guess that’s my point on those players. It’s not the tying them to a 5 year deal. It’s our reluctance to cut our losses when it’s clear they aren’t good enough or aren’t suited to our club for whatever reason. We end up with a bloated and stale squad and have 8 players out on loan (which actually cost us when it came to Matt Doherty). Do other clubs do that? Liverpool have been lumbered with a lot of duds (Ox, Keita) but they’re almost turning into us at this point.

On Sanchez. He’s on a 5 year deal. Why did we extend so quickly?

 

[Raziel]

Depends on what the budget is? If Danjuma and Lenglet come in that is £41m to add to the £80m for Porro and Kulu. So we’ve spent the whole budget (and I’m not convinced we’ll have that much, especially with no CL and likely not even Europa money).

I’m not sure we can really afford to buy either Lenglet or Danjuma when we have a need for a proper left sided CB that can play in a two, a creative attacking midfield player and a new goalkeeper. Do I get to make the decision of what positions I need the budget to be spent on, or have those decisions made for me?

If I was a decent manager and being interviewed for the Spurs job and I was being told that I wouldn’t have any real say on what first team players the club would retain, or the positions in the team/squad that money would be spent on then I wouldn’t accept the job.

We will need bodies in CB, Lenglet for £14M is as good a numbers option as you can find.

You can't advocate for a system/strategy/DoF type model (which I think you do), then allow the manager to make all the changes they want.

Conte is the perfect example -> Perisic, Richi & Porro are all his calls which I fine with, his complete exiling of other players with potential? not so cool.

The manager should understand the model they have to work in, not throw the model out the window

 

[Bishop]

We will need bodies in CB, Lenglet for £14M is as good a numbers option as you can find.

You can't advocate for a system/strategy/DoF type model (which I think you do), then allow the manager to make all the changes they want.

Conte is the perfect example -> Perisic, Richi & Porro are all his calls which I fine with, his complete exiling of other players with potential? not so cool.

The manager should understand the model they have to work in, not throw the model out the window

You should first hire a manager who fits your model. Trying to hire first Mourinho and then Conte and trying to shoehorn them into system they patently do not work in was a waste of their time, our time and our relatively limited funds.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Whatever he is, he should be playing. The talent and potential he has is so obvious. His ceiling is ridiculously high. He needs to be getting more minutes on the pitch.

We should be playing 4-3-3 with him playing in CM
We would need full backs but it would be better than having a spare man at CB looking lost

 

[DubSpur]

I guess that’s my point on those players. It’s not the tying them to a 5 year deal. It’s our reluctance to cut our losses when it’s clear they aren’t good enough or aren’t suited to our club for whatever reason. We end up with a bloated and stale squad and have 8 players out on loan (which actually cost us when it came to Matt Doherty). Do other clubs do that? Liverpool have been lumbered with a lot of duds (Ox, Keita) but they’re almost turning into us at this point.

On Sanchez. He’s on a 5 year deal. Why did we extend so quickly?

I'm sure every team has players that are surplus to requirements but can't shift them, we're just more aware of the ones we have. We've started to let players go, Dele, Doherty, and Aurier recently.
The current market makes it hard to get rid of players and you can't just let players go for nothing when they are worth 10s of millions that are needed to fund transfers.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I guess that’s my point on those players. It’s not the tying them to a 5 year deal. It’s our reluctance to cut our losses when it’s clear they aren’t good enough or aren’t suited to our club for whatever reason. We end up with a bloated and stale squad and have 8 players out on loan (which actually cost us when it came to Matt Doherty). Do other clubs do that? Liverpool have been lumbered with a lot of duds (Ox, Keita) but they’re almost turning into us at this point.

On Sanchez. He’s on a 5 year deal. Why did we extend so quickly?

We extended it because he would have possibly triggered some metrics which meant a pay rise and a new contract
It’s the model we have used a lot
Sign players on lower wages but a carrot of a new contract if they perform