Davinson Sanchez

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm sure every team has players that are surplus to requirements but can't shift them, we're just more aware of the ones we have. We've started to let players go, Dele, Doherty, and Aurier recently.
The current market makes it hard to get rid of players and you can't just let players go for nothing when they are worth 10s of millions that are needed to fund transfers.

That’s the key
Looking at who we need to shift we can bring in £50m (a huge loss) and be better off but that money could make a huge difference if we buy players we actually want

 

[Bishop]

I'm sure every team has players that are surplus to requirements but can't shift them, we're just more aware of the ones we have. We've started to let players go, Dele, Doherty, and Aurier recently.
The current market makes it hard to get rid of players and you can't just let players go for nothing when they are worth 10s of millions that are needed to fund transfers.

The downside to that argument is that we then keep them. That blocks the arrival of newer, more suited players. It also means we continue to pay good wages to players that our various coaches may have deemed as surplus to requirements.

There isn't a perfect answer, but just keeping those players and potentially renewing them isn't necessarily a good answer either. It can lead to a bloated squad like our current one with many players just not up to spec.

Letting them go leads to a loss of book value. Keeping them leads to an actual loss of accrued paid salary over the many years of their contract and the opportunity cost of those unwanted and unsuited players on our books.

 

[DubSpur]

The downside to that argument is that we then keep them. That blocks the arrival of newer, more suited players. It also means we continue to pay good wages to players that our various coaches may have deemed as surplus to requirements.

There isn't a perfect answer, but just keeping those players and potentially renewing them isn't necessarily a good answer either. It can lead to a bloated squad like our current one with many players just not up to spec.

Letting them go leads to a loss of book value. Keeping them leads to an actual loss of accrued paid salary over the many years of their salary and the opportunity cost of those unwanted and unsuited players on our books.

What we're doing with loaning out players is the next best thing if we can't sell them, get a loan fee and the wages paid. Hopefully, our success rate with signings improves and we don't have so many duds at the one time in the future.

 

[spurspinter1]

I'm not pro booing Sanchez (but understand the groans as it's an instinctive reaction to watching him play football) but can we boo posters talking about anything and everything apart from Sanchez in the Sanchez thread?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The downside to that argument is that we then keep them. That blocks the arrival of newer, more suited players. It also means we continue to pay good wages to players that our various coaches may have deemed as surplus to requirements.

There isn't a perfect answer, but just keeping those players and potentially renewing them isn't necessarily a good answer either. It can lead to a bloated squad like our current one with many players just not up to spec.

Letting them go leads to a loss of book value. Keeping them leads to an actual loss of accrued paid salary over the many years of their contract and the opportunity cost of those unwanted and unsuited players on our books.

The issue now isn’t letting them go
It’s finding someone that wants them
The player won’t leave unless it’s favourable for him and in reality everyone who may want these players is super skint
And if we’re buying we get charged a prem premium (see the deal for Zaniolo)
I think we’re happy taking paper losses, but we just need to get rid

If you look at who we need to shift, as a minimum it’s now

lo celso
Tanguy
Sanchez
Rodon
Reggie
Winks
Sessegnon (I’d keep him)
Potentially a CM
Perisic

Im sure there are others (possibly royal for example depending who the manager is, Gil too)

so if you add one of them to a CM we brought for £20m plus it’s about £200m worth of buys we need to shift. The only market that is buying is the prem and we haven’t sold anyone to the form who wants home grown in some time I believe…

it’s fudging scary in reality and needs a DOF overseeing this

of we can recoup £50m for maybe 5/6 of these players it may be the right hit to take

 

[Bishop]

The issue now isn’t letting them go
It’s finding someone that wants them
The player won’t leave unless it’s favourable for him and in reality everyone who may want these players is super skint
And if we’re buying we get charged a prem premium (see the deal for Zaniolo)
I think we’re happy taking paper losses, but we just need to get rid

If you look at who we need to shift, as a minimum it’s now

lo celso
Tanguy
Sanchez
Rodon
Reggie
Winks
Sessegnon (I’d keep him)
Potentially a CM
Perisic

Im sure there are others (possibly royal for example depending who the manager is, Gil too)

so if you add one of them to a CM we brought for £20m plus it’s about £200m worth of buys we need to shift. The only market that is buying is the prem and we haven’t sold anyone to the form who wants home grown in some time I believe…

it’s fudging scary in reality and needs a DOF overseeing this

of we can recoup £50m for maybe 5/6 of these players it may be the right hit to take

Our players just aren't desirable, for much the same reason we want rid of them in the first place. They aren't quite at the top level, typically the players who leave a truly top side have some exceptional qualities marred by some obvious failings whereby a lower level side will think they can get something from them. Its usually enough for them to be willing to make that gamble. Largely our players are considered mediocre and earn too much relative to their ability level.

The few players we could get decent fees for are the very same players probably don't want to sell. You probably know from the various convos we've had over the years i'd get rid a whole bunch. Too many mediocre players in the squad. Without some fairly decisive surgery any coach we get will struggle to get a consistent tune out of them.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Our players just aren't desirable, for much the same reason we want rid of them in the first place. They aren't quite at the top level, typically the players who leave a truly top side have some exceptional qualities marred by some obvious failings whereby a lower level side will think they can get something from them. Its usually enough for them to be willing to make that gamble. Largely our players are considered mediocre and earn too much relative to their ability level.

The few players we could get decent fees for are the very same players probably don't want to sell. You probably know from the various convos we've had over the years i'd get rid a whole bunch. Too many mediocre players in the squad. Without some fairly decisive surgery any coach we get will struggle to get a consistent tune out of them.

But the mediocre ones are also ones that need to go for their own sakes, so they have to make some big decisions themselves for their own careers
They are all international players too
I Mean they are not brick, just not a good fit for us

 

[DubaiSpur]

You almost had a good point, until you let the hyperbole take over.

Wait and watch where Sanchez and Dier end up one day. As Mourinho famously said, 'the players who left - see where they play. Where they play, how they play, *if* they play.'

Those two would stink out a semi-professional side in Gibraltar or San Marino, imo.

But the mediocre ones are also ones that need to go for their own sakes, so they have to make some big decisions themselves for their own careers
They are all international players too
I Mean they are not brick, just not a good fit for us

They don't have to go anywhere - they know we are as good as they are ever going to get, so they are going to sit tight. Dier, Sanchez, Davies, et al - no way but down from here, so no wonder they hang around like they do.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Wait and watch where Sanchez and Dier end up one day. As Mourinho famously said, 'the players who left - see where they play. Where they play, how they play, *if* they play.'

Those two would stink out a semi-professional side in Gibraltar or San Marino, imo.



They don't have to go anywhere - they know we are as good as they are ever going to get, so they are going to sit tight. Dier, Sanchez, Davies, et al - no way but down from here, so no wonder they hang around like they do.

But they don’t get games when they are replaced
It’s the old lamela conundrum
He needed to leave because he wasn’t good enough
We did a deal for him to move

 

[parklane1]

Just want to say that all the arseholes ( at the game) who booed/cheered Sanchez when he came on/off should give their heads a shake, Spurs supporters my arse, shocking way to react to a player wearing a Spurs shirt.

 

[DubaiSpur]

But they don’t get games when they are replaced
It’s the old lamela conundrum
He needed to leave because he wasn’t good enough
We did a deal for him to move

Yeah, but I honestly doubt they care. At least Winks, for all his horrible flaws, gave a sh*te about being dropped.

Sanchez has not been first choice for four years now. He's still here. If we dropped Dier tomorrow but gave him a new contract (GHod forbid), he'd still be here. Davies has been hanging around despite being basically a second choice LB/occasional LCB for the entirety of his 9 years here.

There's a little hope for the likes of Sess et al - mediocre players who are still young enough that the prospect of sitting on the bench for the rest of their playing careers spurs them to leave us. The ones above? No chance, imo.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah, but I honestly doubt they care. At least Winks, for all his horrible flaws, gave a sh*te about being dropped.

Sanchez has not been first choice for four years now. He's still here. If we dropped Dier tomorrow but gave him a new contract (GHod forbid), he'd still be here. Davies has been hanging around despite being basically a second choice LB/occasional LCB for the entirety of his 9 years here.

There's a little hope for the likes of Sess et al - mediocre players who are still young enough that the prospect of sitting on the bench for the rest of their playing careers spurs them to leave us. The ones above? No chance, imo.

Maybe
We will see
Sanchez turned down a move in jan
I do agree that this is as good as it gets for these players
It’s the same when anyone leaves a top side… they rarely get another chance

 

[DubSpur]

Yeah, but I honestly doubt they care. At least Winks, for all his horrible flaws, gave a sh*te about being dropped.

Sanchez has not been first choice for four years now. He's still here. If we dropped Dier tomorrow but gave him a new contract (GHod forbid), he'd still be here. Davies has been hanging around despite being basically a second choice LB/occasional LCB for the entirety of his 9 years here.

There's a little hope for the likes of Sess et al - mediocre players who are still young enough that the prospect of sitting on the bench for the rest of their playing careers spurs them to leave us. The ones above? No chance, imo.

Davies has played 305 times in 9 seasons, so averaging over 30 games a season, hardly a bit-time player.
When Dier wasn't getting game time he was reportedly looking for a move. You don't need to make stuff up about players just because you don't like them.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Davies has played 305 times in 9 seasons, so averaging over 30 games a season, hardly a bit-time player.
When Dier wasn't getting game time he was reportedly looking for a move. You don't need to make stuff up about players just because you don't like them.

305 games over 9 seasons is about half the games of any available season if you count all his 10m/15m appearances off the bench.

Exactly as I said - second-choice LB/occasional LCB.

You want to know what first choice looks like? Kane has played 450-odd games in that time, the vast majority for the full 90 or very close to it. That's first choice.

As for Dier, 'reportedly' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, imo. We'll see - my bet is that, if we give him a new contract (and I hope to GHod we won't do something that self-destructive), he'll hang around even he's playing with the U21s, because he knows the only way is down.

 

[DubSpur]

305 games over 9 seasons is about half the games of any available season if you count all his 10m/15m appearances off the bench.

Exactly as I said - second-choice LB/occasional LCB.

You want to know what first choice looks like? Kane has played 450-odd games in that time, the vast majority for the full 90 or very close to it. That's first choice.

As for Dier, 'reportedly' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there, imo. We'll see - my bet is that, if we give him a new contract (and I hope to GHod we won't do something that self-destructive), he'll hang around even he's playing with the U21s, because he knows the only way is down.

Whether it's first choice or not he's played a lot of games for us and has been an important part of the squad playing a lot of games. He's not some bit part player getting a few mins here and there.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Whether it's first choice or not he's played a lot of games for us and has been an important part of the squad playing a lot of games. He's not some bit part player getting a few mins here and there.

Yeah, but I didn't say 'bit part player' - I said 'second choice LB/occasional LCB'. You're not disagreeing on that, I take it?

Separately, I think he *should* have been a bit part player, absolutely - embodiment of mediocrity, part of why we are where we are. But that's a separate topic.

 

[Finney Is Back]

We will need bodies in CB, Lenglet for £14M is as good a numbers option as you can find.

You can't advocate for a system/strategy/DoF type model (which I think you do), then allow the manager to make all the changes they want.

Conte is the perfect example -> Perisic, Richi & Porro are all his calls which I fine with, his complete exiling of other players with potential? not so cool.

The manager should understand the model they have to work in, not throw the model out the window

Can Lenglet play in a two? Could he play in a reasonably high line? I hope they are questions the new manager would be asking himself and then deciding whether to keep him, not having £14m of valuable first team transfer budget being used (potentially wasted) on him prior to the new manager coming in if Lenglet ends up being completely unsuitable to the new manager’s preferred system.

DoF strategy is about putting in a scouting, recruitment and coaching structure. Identifying and signing players for the here and now that the first team coach needs and players for the future that might be ready for whoever is first team manager in 2,3,4,5,6,7+ years time.

I’m not advocating the manager signing who he wants, I’m simply not advocating a model where the first team manager doesn’t get the main say on which first team positions we need to concentrate on with our signings or does not decide which current first team squad players need to be moved on.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Maybe
We will see
Sanchez turned down a move in jan
I do agree that this is as good as it gets for these players
It’s the same when anyone leaves a top side… they rarely get another chance

The way to get rid of unwanted players is to sit them down and tell them and their agent that they won’t be getting a squad number next season. There are actually only a very small number of Winston Bogarde type players that would just sit out football completely. Our problem is that we try to sell them but don’t make it clear that the alternative is no squad place at all which makes it easier for them to sit tight.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The way to get rid of unwanted players is to sit them down and tell them and their agent that they won’t be getting a squad number next season. There are actually only a very small number of Winston Bogarde type players that would just sit out football completely. Our problem is that we try to sell them but don’t make it clear that the alternative is no squad place at all which makes it easier for them to sit tight.

I agree
We tried that with the players that went on loan
They knew they were gonna have no option

 

[NaijaSpurs]

I do not blame Sanchez for being a limited footballer, rather I blame the club for failing to be brave and failing to sell him at a loss, or coming to a financial agreement with him and ripping up his contract. Sanchez tries his best but he simply is not good enough.