Davinson Sanchez

[tommysvr]

Porro can’t be judged on anything until next season. The poor bastard has walked into a complete brickshow.

It was a daft signing. The writing was on the wall with Conte. We should have sacked him in January rather than sign Porro (something I said at the time, not just with hindsight.)

Edit: to add, whilst Porro has been pretty bad I think he’ll come good. But it’s just another symptom of the lack of direction at the top.

 

[thfcsteff]

The thing is when Poch became Manager, we had older players on big contracts who stuck out the place, just like we do now.

But we managed to get rid of them by making it clear they weren't good enough and weren't going to play.

But we've stopped being honestly ruthless. Spurs has become a lovely place to work and stay. You'll get a game if you're patient and train had. Crap players do still train hard.

We (the club) care more about our image than what's needed to succeed on the pitch.

I thought Mourinho and Conte would have been ruthless, but they both are egotistical and cared more about their own image, they didn't take the job seriously. Only Poch took it seriously but Levy screwed him, as Levy has become just as egotistical as the last two Managers. It's the company you keep I suppose...

It's the fans who ultimately suffered.

Brilliant post. Well said re: The clam and Antonio...

 

[indospurs]

Brilliant post. Well said re: The clam and Antonio...

basically we regressed to the same point before Poch came in - who'll do it again now?

 

[DubaiSpur]

basically we regressed to the same point before Poch came in - who'll do it again now?

No one. Not even Poch himself. Because we aren't the same club that we were then.

There are no longer any lowered expectations, no new stadium on the horizon that fans can use as a dream to assuage their on-pitch disappointments and hope for a better future one day.

The stadium is now here, and this is the phase where we were supposed to be reaping the rewards. The majority of the fans now expect a lot more than meandering in the wilderness.

And yet, we have the likes of Davinson Sanchez, Eric Dier and Ben Davies stumbling around, being utterly useless to the degree that I doubt semi-pro sides would pick up the truly brainless Sanchez, or the coward Dier, even on a free.

We are burdened with crap footballers worse than what we had in 2014, while the only good player we have wants to leave. And I think fans are now out of patience with that.

The route to a united club is no longer through the manager, it's through getting new owners that allow us to dream again - that act decisively, with intelligence, and with enough money to let the fans dream again.

Owners whose first act is to tear up Sanchez, Dier and Davies' contracts in front of them, to replace Kane and co. with real top-class talent. Owners who make clear that there is no more patience for mediocrity and cowardice, on the pitch or off it.

The rot at the club is now almost entirely concentrated on the owners - pound shop chancers in a league with owners far richer, more intelligent and more ambitious than them.

And until they go, no manager can fix this club by himself. Not even Poch.

 

[tommysvr]

And yet, we have the likes of Davinson Sanchez, Eric Dier and Ben Davies stumbling around, being utterly useless to the degree that I doubt semi-pro sides would pick up the truly brainless Sanchez, or the coward Dier, even on a free.

You almost had a good point, until you let the hyperbole take over.

 

[afsoc4life]

The thing is when Poch became Manager, we had older players on big contracts who stuck out the place, just like we do now.

But we managed to get rid of them by making it clear they weren't good enough and weren't going to play.

But we've stopped being honestly ruthless. Spurs has become a lovely place to work and stay. You'll get a game if you're patient and train had. Crap players do still train hard.

We (the club) care more about our image than what's needed to succeed on the pitch.

I thought Mourinho and Conte would have been ruthless, but they both are egotistical and cared more about their own image, they didn't take the job seriously. Only Poch took it seriously but Levy screwed him, as Levy has become just as egotistical as the last two Managers. It's the company you keep I suppose...

It's the fans who ultimately suffered.

Very true on the ruthless part. I do not see the players truly giving a fvck about the fans. The fans can sense that.

 

[DeanoAustin]

The thing is when Poch became Manager, we had older players on big contracts who stuck out the place, just like we do now.

But we managed to get rid of them by making it clear they weren't good enough and weren't going to play.

But we've stopped being honestly ruthless. Spurs has become a lovely place to work and stay. You'll get a game if you're patient and train had. Crap players do still train hard.

We (the club) care more about our image than what's needed to succeed on the pitch.

I thought Mourinho and Conte would have been ruthless, but they both are egotistical and cared more about their own image, they didn't take the job seriously. Only Poch took it seriously but Levy screwed him, as Levy has become just as egotistical as the last two Managers. It's the company you keep I suppose...

It's the fans who ultimately suffered.

I wonder on these players, do we continually tie them to contracts to avoid losing them for nothing rather than truly believing they’re good enough. Like the board prioritise top 4 as a business decision, they offer mediocre players contracts to ensure that if we get rid, we get a fee. Only thing is, we can’t get rid because no club on our level will take them so the unintended consequence is that we get stuck with those players.

Im not sure that Jose and Conte didn’t take it seriously. They are winners. I think they came in well intentioned but left disillusioned with the club and our operating model.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Yeah it's not the fans who are doing the recruitment though and I doubt the club take much stock in what the fans say. By the time we are at the "pay the release fee" you would have thought the scouting ihas been done, then the criticism is often rightly switched to how long it has taken to get transfers over the line. Something that has hamstrung managers in the past. We have been in a mess with recruitment, especially young emerging talent, for some time now, that is from the top all the way to the manager and scouting team. It looked to be improving under Paratici but it was still early days.

That is no surprise though as we didn’t have a recruitment team for a good few years until Paratici came in (unless you choose to count Hitchen and a few part time scouts as such?). The most important aspect of a football club was totally neglected.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I wonder on these players, do we continually tie them to contracts to avoid losing them for nothing rather than truly believing they’re good enough. Like the board prioritise top 4 as a business decision, they offer mediocre players contracts to ensure that if we get rid, we get a fee. Only thing is, we can’t get rid because no club on our level will take them so the unintended consequence is that we get stuck with those players.

Im not sure that Jose and Conte didn’t take it seriously. They are winners. I think they came in well intentioned but left disillusioned with the club and our operating model.

It makes sense to give Dier a new contract
It doesn’t make sense for Dier to be a starter under a new manager
The new contacts that people are over reacting too are Kane and Dier
Kane isn’t happening, yet (we knew what could happen)
Dier makes sense as it means we have some value in him and he can become a squad player
I can’t think of anyone else that fits your mediocre bracket that has had their contract extended???

 

[DeanoAustin]

It makes sense to give Dier a new contract
It doesn’t make sense for Dier to be a starter under a new manager
The new contacts that people are over reacting too are Kane and Dier
Kane isn’t happening, yet (we knew what could happen)
Dier makes sense as it means we have some value in him and he can become a squad player
I can’t think of anyone else that fits your mediocre bracket that has had their contract extended???

Ben Davies, who I like as a player, has been here 10 years at this point and, while dependable to a degree, has never been a great player. Winks has been here for a similar amount of time. Yeah he’s on loan but he’s still with the club. Tanganga is 24 now. He’s been around the first team for 4 years without ever kicking on. Moura has been here for 6 years. Although he’s never signed an extension, how can a player who has never been prolific stay at a top 6 club for 6 years?

Sanchez himself signed a contract extension even when it was apparent that he had severe limitations.

Our squad is littered with players we’ve held on to well beyond their sell by dates.

And I guess your second last line illustrates the point I’m trying to make. “There’s value in Dier and he can become a squad player.”

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Ben Davies, who I like as a player, has been here 10 years at this point and, while dependable to a degree, has never been a great player. Winks has been here for a similar amount of time. Yeah he’s on loan but he’s still with the club. Tanganga is 24 now. He’s been around the first team for 4 years without ever kicking on. Moura has been here for 6 years. Although he’s never signed an extension, how can a player who has never been prolific stay at a top 6 club for 6 years?

Sanchez himself signed a contract extension even when it was apparent that he had severe limitations.

Our squad is littered with players we’ve held on to well beyond their sell by dates.

And I guess your second last line illustrates the point I’m trying to make. “There’s value in Dier and he can become a squad player.”

The only player mention there who will but kept next season is Davies. If we had Davies the last 3 games we would have had maximum points imo.
Tanganga is only here for HG quota
Moura is already leaving and that’s confirmed
Sanchez has been on the market but declining moves
Winks has been shifted out already so we know the intent there
What you’re staying is we have extended contacts of players that we don’t want which isn’t true. We yat you really meant to say IMO is we still have some crap players here which I agree with.
Dier makes sense. He has value to the club and team. Sepals multiple languages. Can play multiple positions and generally stays fit. For a squad player that’s key

 

[Finney Is Back]

It makes sense to give Dier a new contract
It doesn’t make sense for Dier to be a starter under a new manager
The new contacts that people are over reacting too are Kane and Dier
Kane isn’t happening, yet (we knew what could happen)
Dier makes sense as it means we have some value in him and he can become a squad player
I can’t think of anyone else that fits your mediocre bracket that has had their contract extended???

It depends on what money to be honest. I also think the decision needs to be taken once the new manager is in and not before.

 

[Baleforce]

It depends on what money to be honest. I also think the decision needs to be taken once the new manager is in and not before.

It’s a DoF rather than manager decision imo.

 

[DeanoAustin]

The only player mention there who will but kept next season is Davies. If we had Davies the last 3 games we would have had maximum points imo.
Tanganga is only here for HG quota
Moura is already leaving and that’s confirmed
Sanchez has been on the market but declining moves
Winks has been shifted out already so we know the intent there
What you’re staying is we have extended contacts of players that we don’t want which isn’t true. We yat you really meant to say IMO is we still have some crap players here which I agree with.
Dier makes sense. He has value to the club and team. Sepals multiple languages. Can play multiple positions and generally stays fit. For a squad player that’s key

No, what I’m saying is that we’re protecting value as a priority and offering deals to players who simply aren’t good enough. The cumulative effect of that is that you end up with a malaise and staleness running through the squad.

Take Sanchez. We signed him to a 6 year deal. Okay, fair enough despite the fact he came with question marks and played in a league several levels below the PL. We then extended his deal further within a year or two. What was the point other than to protect “value”?

In relation to Dier, he’s a good lad and a decent player. But he’s been here 10 years without ever establishing himself in a position or looking like a solid first teamer. How does that happen at a club aspiring to win things and compete at a high level. And at 28 or 29, will he really be content with being a “squad player”? I’m pretty sure I read he seriously thought about leaving when he was out of the team a few years back. With only a few years left of his career, I can’t see him wanting to warm our bench.

 

[Baleforce]

No, what I’m saying is that we’re protecting value as a priority and offering deals to players who simply aren’t good enough. The cumulative effect of that is that you end up with a malaise and staleness running through the squad.

Take Sanchez. We signed him to a 6 year deal. Okay, fair enough despite the fact he came with question marks and played in a league several levels below the PL. We then extended his deal further within a year or two. What was the point other than to protect “value”?

In relation to Dier, he’s a good lad and a decent player. But he’s been here 10 years without ever establishing himself in a position or looking like a solid first teamer. How does that happen at a club aspiring to win things and compete at a high level. And at 28 or 29, will he really be content with being a “squad player”? I’m pretty sure I read he seriously thought about leaving when he was out of the team a few years back. With only a few years left of his career, I can’t see him wanting to warm our bench.

what’s the alternative, sign players on short deals and have all the good ones walk away on a free?

there has been plenty of success with that approach, either with players like Kane and Lloris being tied down, or where we have received a massive fee, like Bale

As for Dier, he’s played over 350 games for us, 3/4 of them at CB now, that’s established imo

 

[DubSpur]

No, what I’m saying is that we’re protecting value as a priority and offering deals to players who simply aren’t good enough. The cumulative effect of that is that you end up with a malaise and staleness running through the squad.

Take Sanchez. We signed him to a 6 year deal. Okay, fair enough despite the fact he came with question marks and played in a league several levels below the PL. We then extended his deal further within a year or two. What was the point other than to protect “value”?

In relation to Dier, he’s a good lad and a decent player. But he’s been here 10 years without ever establishing himself in a position or looking like a solid first teamer. How does that happen at a club aspiring to win things and compete at a high level. And at 28 or 29, will he really be content with being a “squad player”? I’m pretty sure I read he seriously thought about leaving when he was out of the team a few years back. With only a few years left of his career, I can’t see him wanting to warm our bench.

The problem is that we haven't got anyone in better than those players so that we can let them go.

 

[DeanoAustin]

what’s the alternative, sign players on short deals and have all the good ones walk away on a free?

there has been plenty of success with that approach, either with players like Kane and Lloris being tied down, or where we have received a massive fee, like Bale

As for Dier, he’s played over 350 games for us, 3/4 of them at CB now, that’s established imo

Why extend someone like Sanchez after 12-18 months when he’s on a 6 year deal and still unproven?

As for Dier, there have always been big question marks over him. He’s never been convincing in any position.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

No, what I’m saying is that we’re protecting value as a priority and offering deals to players who simply aren’t good enough. The cumulative effect of that is that you end up with a malaise and staleness running through the squad.

Take Sanchez. We signed him to a 6 year deal. Okay, fair enough despite the fact he came with question marks and played in a league several levels below the PL. We then extended his deal further within a year or two. What was the point other than to protect “value”?

In relation to Dier, he’s a good lad and a decent player. But he’s been here 10 years without ever establishing himself in a position or looking like a solid first teamer. How does that happen at a club aspiring to win things and compete at a high level. And at 28 or 29, will he really be content with being a “squad player”? I’m pretty sure I read he seriously thought about leaving when he was out of the team a few years back. With only a few years left of his career, I can’t see him wanting to warm our bench.

Your assuming that of course
But we have recently offloaded several players for free at a cost to the club. We have literally declined a new extension for Moura for example
We have extended Hugo in the last few years and that’s a mistake now imo with us not planning to replace him quick enough. That wasn’t to protect his value though
Dier has been here almost 10 years and we have even in the CL half that time so he must have been doing some things right. And if he isn’t happy being a squad player we can sell him.
So who else have we offered these contracts too?
Honestly it’s a misleading trope to hit the club with.
there is plenty to hit the club with but offering a new contract to one player that some fans think is brick is just daft imo

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The problem is that we haven't got anyone in better than those players so that we can let them go.

And that’s the kicker
We sign new players and some really haven’t performed. I mean they have been horrendous really and are a huge part of our the issue.
The money we have spent of some of these players is frankly scary and the return from them has been nil

 

[Finney Is Back]

It’s a DoF rather than manager decision imo.

Definitely not, it has to be in conjunction with the manager, otherwise we’re allocating a largish portion of the first team budget to a player the new manager may not want.