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Davinson Sanchez

DubaiSpur said:
Well, go ahead, give me your guess mate. What is it that causes us to deprioritize cup games? I have my view which you know, but curious what your explanation is.
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Well i do not agree with doing it but unlike you i do not really know why we do. But you have so much bile over Levy that what ever i come up with/say it will not matter. Your obsessed.
 
parklane1 said:
Well i do not agree with doing it but unlike you i do not really know why we do. But you have so much bile over Levy that what ever i come up with/say it will not matter. Your obsessed.
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Well yeah -the circumstantial evidence all points one way on this so I'm fairly confident I'm right on this being a result of the deliberate focus on Top Four over trophies that our dear owners have maintained. Have been pretty open about that.

I did think you had an alternate explanation for why the club focuses on making the top four over winning trophies, though - no worries if not, but did want to ask.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Well yeah -the circumstantial evidence all points one way on this so I'm fairly confident I'm right on this being a result of the deliberate focus on Top Four over trophies that our dear owners have maintained. Have been pretty open about that.

I did think you had an alternate explanation for why the club focuses on making the top four over winning trophies, though - no worries if not, but did want to ask.
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As i said as a fan i do not have privvy to anything the club may do or NOT do ( unlike you seem to have) or imagine you do in your mind.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Well yeah -the circumstantial evidence all points one way on this so I'm fairly confident I'm right on this being a result of the deliberate focus on Top Four over trophies that our dear owners have maintained. Have been pretty open about that.

I did think you had an alternate explanation for why the club focuses on making the top four over winning trophies, though - no worries if not, but did want to ask.
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I don’t think we prioritise the league anymore than other ‘big clubs’. They all rotate their players and squad for the cups - the problem is our output is awful when we do. Man U were losing resting/rotating several players against West Ham and had to bring on Casemiro, Martinez and Rashford for example.

There were a couple too many changes really considering this was always going to be a difficult game, its difficult to get the balance completely right in order to remain competitive in all competitions when our squad still lacks in certain areas. That is on Conte and Stellini, but it’s always easier sitting here making judgments on what is best….
 
DubaiSpur said:
Well yeah -the circumstantial evidence all points one way on this so I'm fairly confident I'm right on this being a result of the deliberate focus on Top Four over trophies that our dear owners have maintained. Have been pretty open about that.

I did think you had an alternate explanation for why the club focuses on making the top four over winning trophies, though - no worries if not, but did want to ask.
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What would you priorities be in order?
League
Champions League
Fa Cup
League cup
 
Lilbaz said:
What would you priorities be in order?
League
Champions League
Fa Cup
League cup
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Fa Cup
League Cup
League
Champions League

With an associated bonuses scale to match for players and the coach.

CL, we're not winning anyway. But we need to win something - we are starving for it, as a sporting institution. The domestic cups are our most direct routes - pump our salary bonuses towards winning those, and coaches will react accordingly.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Fa Cup
League Cup
League
Champions League

With an associated bonuses scale to match for players and the coach.

CL, we're not winning anyway. But we need to win something - we are starving for it, as a sporting institution. The domestic cups are our most direct routes - pump our salary bonuses towards winning those, and coaches will react accordingly.
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As a fan i would love to win the fa cup. I'm old enough to remember when it was the game of the year. But above the league or cl?

Yes we are starving for a trophy. Yes domestic cups are the most direct routes. But for the club champions league is bigger. The money is too much. The prestige to players, sponsors etc... i don't like it, it's how it is these days though. Not just for spurs for all the big clubs.

We need to get to a place where we can fight on more than one front.
 
harr1984 said:
I don’t think we prioritise the league anymore than other ‘big clubs’. They all rotate their players and squad for the cups - the problem is our output is awful when we do. Man U were losing resting/rotating several players against West Ham and had to bring on Casemiro, Martinez and Rashford for example.

There were a couple too many changes really considering this was always going to be a difficult game, its difficult to get the balance completely right in order to remain competitive in all competitions when our squad still lacks in certain areas. That is on Conte and Stellini, but it’s always easier sitting here making judgments on what is best….
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I would accept that if every coach tried it once, realised the dire level of dropoff between our first eleven and our woeful wastes of space on the bench and in the stands, and never tried it again.

But this is not even the first time we have gone out like this - we went out in the exact same way, at the exact same stage, to basically the exact same upwardly mobile Champo club, last year.

Yet, Conte and Stellini threw it away by playing bombscare Sanchez and co. this year, knowing that this is exactly what would happen.

There are perverse incentives put in place that encourage this outcome.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I would accept that if every coach tried it once, realised the dire level of dropoff between our first eleven and our woeful wastes of space on the bench and in the stands, and never tried it again.

But this is not even the first time we have gone out like this - we went out in the exact same way, at the exact same stage, to basically the exact same upwardly mobile Champo club, last year.

Yet, Conte and Stellini threw it away by playing bombscare Sanchez and co. this year, knowing that this is exactly what would happen.

There are perverse incentives put in place that encourage this outcome.
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Yes there are. Like at every club.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Fa Cup
League Cup
League
Champions League

With an associated bonuses scale to match for players and the coach.

CL, we're not winning anyway. But we need to win something - we are starving for it, as a sporting institution. The domestic cups are our most direct routes - pump our salary bonuses towards winning those, and coaches will react accordingly.
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Yet as a BUSINESS, we need CL money. So we can attract and afford a higher calibre of Playa. If that annoys fans because they want the joy of seeing a pot lifted, I don’t think the club as a brand business cares.
 
90291Spur said:
Yet as a BUSINESS, we need CL money. So we can attract and afford a higher calibre of Playa. If that annoys fans because they want the joy of seeing a pot lifted, I don’t think the club as a brand business cares.
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How times have changed. Getting cl for some is now seen as a bad thing.
 
90291Spur said:
Yet as a BUSINESS, we need CL money. So we can attract and afford a higher calibre of Playa. If that annoys fans because they want the joy of seeing a pot lifted, I don’t think the club as a brand business cares.
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But we’re now at a point of why do we want that higher calibre if okayed if we don’t use them to actually try to win trophies that we can
If it’s just to remain in the CL spots it’s a gamble with actually no reward for the fans and just money for the club
 
Lilbaz said:
As a fan i would love to win the fa cup. I'm old enough to remember when it was the game of the year. But above the league or cl?

Yes we are starving for a trophy. Yes domestic cups are the most direct routes. But for the club champions league is bigger. The money is too much. The prestige to players, sponsors etc... i don't like it, it's how it is these days though. Not just for spurs for all the big clubs.

We need to get to a place where we can fight on more than one front.
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I agree with you, but this is not the case for every big club - the ones that can invest in building deep squads to challenge on every front, instead of utterly useless wastes of space like the players on our bench, that have been here 7 years without challenge...those are the ones that can go deep in all competitions. We are not that club, solely because our owners cannot enable us to build those squads.

90291Spur said:
If that annoys fans because they want the joy of seeing a pot lifted, I don’t think the club as a brand business cares.
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Yes. I agree. The club does not give a single damn.

Which is why its owners are corrosive to hope at this club, and need binning for owners with ambitions of actually winning things. The sooner, the better.
 
Lilbaz said:
You think new owners would care more about the league cup or fa cup than getting in the champions league?
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If they're like ENIC, no.

If they buy the club as a sporting concern, not a real estate front, then yes. This idea of 'we can only be competitive with CL revenue' is only true if you don't have owners willing to fund you to competitiveness without it - enough owners have proven they are willing to do that, from Kroenke to Boehly.

So, yes, new owners willing to invest in pursuit of sporting success would probably prioritize winning every competition we're in over 'get Top Four so we cab get Top Four next year.'
 
DubaiSpur said:
If they're like ENIC, no.

If they buy the club as a sporting concern, not a real estate front, then yes. This idea of 'we can only be competitive with CL revenue' is only true if you don't have owners willing to fund you to competitiveness without it - enough owners have proven they are willing to do that, from Kroenke to Boehly.

So, yes, new owners willing to invest in pursuit of sporting success would probably prioritize winning every competition we're in over 'get Top Four so we cab get Top Four next year.'
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Do you not remeber arsenal fans chanting spend to wenger and Kroenke? Yes he's started spending recently but so has enic.

As for boehly read swiss rambles take on chelseas spending. It's done. No cl they will have to sell. Then clearlake etc... will want a return on their investment.

https://swissramble.substack.com/p/how-much-money-did-chelsea-really
 
Question is though, how much better can we get that's happy to play only once in a while? We need to improve our starters first.
 
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