Daniel Levy - Chairman

[Gazza Dazzla]

'Circular argument and half truths' eh?

Let's set these facts out then.
Under Pochettino we went from one entry into the CL to regulars.
We saw investment in the new stadium project suddenly become much easier as the side aggressively over-achieved on a shoe string budget. We actually built a stadium whilst retaining top 4 and nearly winning the league with 86 points (on a shoestring) and homeless for closing in on two seasons. We reached the CL Final and finished top 4 despite a less than shoestring budget. After a tense post-final period of time, Levy apparently made peace with Poch and the two went to work again. Mourinho started slinking around, Poch had a rough run, sacked after what, 12 games?

As for Liverpool, my point stands. They stood behind Klopp despite the brick start. Many said his 7 year dip (no pun) had arrived. They didn't listen.

The TRUTH is that as soon as Mourinho whispered in Daniel's ear that 'he could do better with that squad' Daniel shat himself with joy and couldn't fudging wait! As for whether Poch wanted to be here, I'd say he was pretty fudging angry when he saw Mourinho skulking in the shadows, Daniel twitching, and all the 'advice' being given to Daniel about 'trophy winners'...

You don't have to agree, but this is what happened.

Out of interest, did you think Poch should've been sacked, or did you think he deserved another shot? And would you have had him back?

Sacked because of a 12 game run? Exactly what I mean by half truths.

circular arguments needs no explaining surely? Everything posted in the last 24 hours has been done virtually every month since the sacking. Same people, same arguments, both ways. Just boring.

I wouldn’t have sacked Poch, no, but I understand why it came to that. As I said in my post, he didn’t want to be here anymore, clear as day, classic burnout. He had quite valid reasons for that I’m sure, but the reality is we were in a £1bn stadium build, we all have to be grown ups sometimes and understand the situations we are in. Had we had a dof in that period things may have been different, someone to flip the squad a bit for zero spend.

We had Sean Dyche come in to our work one time as a guest speaker and he mentioned how dangerous it was to have “suckers” in your squad, players who suck the energy and life out of the place, it brings everyone else down and you have to identify those players quickly and remove them. It’s sad to say but our own manager had become that, I think the sacking was a relief to him. If Poch himself still wanted to be manager back then he would have been.

Anyway, no doubt this post will get the usual people frothing at the mouth and apologies for that, but opinions aren’t going to change no matter how many times the same things are said.

 

[Jurgen the German]

What 'would have' happened is by definition impossible to predict.

Using Arteta as an example doesn't prove keeping Poch would turn out positively. It's cherry picking an outcome (not even a successful one now they've crumbled again tbh) to support your view.
Similarly one could easily offer Leicester keeping Rodgers for far too long to 'prove' the alternative outcome.

Levy’s MO is he lets managers have one off year (missing top 4) but if looks like they’re going to miss it for a second time he cuts them loose.

 

[billyiddo]

How many off years do managers get elsewhere?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

How many off years do managers get elsewhere?

None
That’s why the prem has such a churn of managers

 

[Jurgen the German]

How many off years do managers get elsewhere?

Arteta had 2 (3 if you count last season’s capitulation of 4th to us). Klopp has had at least 2, albeit not consecutively. Levy seems to operate like Abramovich but doesn’t have the trophy haul that Roman had to justify his constant chopping and changing of managers.

 

[Jurgen the German]

None
That’s why the prem has such a churn of managers

Arsenal and Liverpool are far more patient than we are.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Arsenal and Liverpool are far more patient than we are.

Are they?
Didn’t pool sack brenton after a great season
Sack woy too ( why remember how good to and he was)
Arsenal sacked emery who actually had a better record arteta. They wanted to sack arteta around 2 years ago but they guys they interviewed didn’t want the job after meeting them. This was at the peak of their fan protests

 

[Baleforce]

Arteta didn’t have off years, he took over a mid table team and achieved par.

Then obviously had them right place right time to make the most of other teams poor seasons this year.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Arteta had 2 (3 if you count last season’s capitulation of 4th to us). Klopp has had at least 2, albeit not consecutively. Levy seems to operate like Abramovich but doesn’t have the trophy haul that Roman had to justify his constant chopping and changing of managers.

What poor season has Klopp had?

his finishes are 8, 4, 4, 2, 1, 3, 2
And possibly 5th this season

 

[billyiddo]

Arteta had 2 (3 if you count last season’s capitulation of 4th to us). Klopp has had at least 2, albeit not consecutively. Levy seems to operate like Abramovich but doesn’t have the trophy haul that Roman had to justify his constant chopping and changing of managers.

You can argue Arteta & Arsenal tbf though i think the circumstances there are a little different as they had dropped out of the CL already under Wenger, got the Emery/Milisnat era wrong and then set about a long term project with Arteta, and tbf to him he picked up a cup right away & got to a european final the following season which no doubt gave patience for his project. Klopp doesn't really fit your criteria that i can see.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Are they?
Didn’t pool sack brenton after a great season
Sack woy too ( why remember how good to and he was)
Arsenal sacked emery who actually had a better record arteta. They wanted to sack arteta around 2 years ago but they guys they interviewed didn’t want the job after meeting them. This was at the peak of their fan protests

Whether they wanted to sack Arteta is irrelevant, they didn’t sack him.

 

[Jurgen the German]

What poor season has Klopp had?

his finishes are 8, 4, 4, 2, 1, 3, 2
And possibly 5th this season

8th in his first season.

finishing 3rd miles off the pace a year after winning it could be classed as a bad year given the talent they have.

Likely to miss top 4 this season.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

8th in his first season.

finishing 3rd miles off the pace a year after winning it could be classed as a bad year given the talent they have.

Likely to miss top 4 this season.

Yeah 8th in his first season
He took over the team after Brenton part way though the season

they may miss top 4 and will point to a rebuild, injuries and a WC

3rd wasn’t poor but it wasn’t amazing for sure
Big it was still a big season

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Levy’s MO is he lets managers have one off year (missing top 4) but if looks like they’re going to miss it for a second time he cuts them loose.

That wasn't the point I was making.

But to reply to the above.....that MO aligns him with the majority of chairman/owners.

 

[thfcsteff]

Sacked because of a 12 game run? Exactly what I mean by half truths.

circular arguments needs no explaining surely? Everything posted in the last 24 hours has been done virtually every month since the sacking. Same people, same arguments, both ways. Just boring.

I wouldn’t have sacked Poch, no, but I understand why it came to that. As I said in my post, he didn’t want to be here anymore, clear as day, classic burnout. He had quite valid reasons for that I’m sure, but the reality is we were in a £1bn stadium build, we all have to be grown ups sometimes and understand the situations we are in. Had we had a dof in that period things may have been different, someone to flip the squad a bit for zero spend.

We had Sean Dyche come in to our work one time as a guest speaker and he mentioned how dangerous it was to have “suckers” in your squad, players who suck the energy and life out of the place, it brings everyone else down and you have to identify those players quickly and remove them. It’s sad to say but our own manager had become that, I think the sacking was a relief to him. If Poch himself still wanted to be manager back then he would have been.

Anyway, no doubt this post will get the usual people frothing at the mouth and apologies for that, but opinions aren’t going to change no matter how many times the same things are said.

No mouth frothing at all mate. Conversation and discussion, all good IMO. Perspectives dictate opinions, and I agree, those rarely change. I will say Poch tried for two years to move some on but wasn't supported in that. Anyway, I don't disagree that the conversation is relatively redundant, but understandable given the possible Chelsea appt (I think he is still waiting to see what happens with Ancelotti tonight).

Yes, met Sean Dyche too, really good bloke and some interesting yet simple insights.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

No mouth frothing at all mate. Conversation and discussion, all good IMO. Perspectives dictate opinions, and I agree, those rarely change. I will say Poch tried for two years to move some on but wasn't supported in that. Anyway, I don't disagree that the conversation is relatively redundant, but understandable given the possible Chelsea appt (I think he is still waiting to see what happens with Ancelotti tonight).

Yes, met Sean Dyche too, really good bloke and some interesting yet simple insights.

I don’t agree with the coming Poch tried to move people on. He really struggled on that front. He was still a “dad” to a lot of the players and he didn’t know how to separate himself from that role
It’s why he stopped taking training and wanted to watch from his office (he wanted CCTV to help)
I’ve been told that now by a few ex players and a an ex spurs coach who I met last weekend
That doesn’t make Poch bad. Hell it’s why he was successful. But it was part of his inexperience at the time
Dyche is a great bloke, I agree. Smart and intelligent and says what he thinks

 

[Lemonade Money]

What 'would have' happened is by definition impossible to predict.

Using Arteta as an example doesn't prove keeping Poch would turn out positively. It's cherry picking an outcome (not even a successful one now they've crumbled again tbh) to support your view.
Similarly one could easily offer Leicester keeping Rodgers for far too long to 'prove' the alternative outcome.

I'll cherry pick an outcome. Our three best managers under Enic were obviously the right manager at the right time, but never hit the heights again. I'm not including PSG trophies, there was an affiliation etc, and I think it's obvious that Todd Lasso knows the square root of fudge all. As for Real making a late bid for Pochettino, lmfao. Let's see if we can find the next right manager at the right time.

 

[tommysvr]

If Arteta had two of the best strikers in the world up front and finished 8th, I reckon he would have been in trouble.

 

[Lemonade Money]

If Arteta had two of the best strikers in the world up front and finished 8th, I reckon he would have been in trouble.

Fortunately Bendtner left years ago.

 

[Raziel]

If Arteta had two of the best strikers in the world up front and finished 8th, I reckon he would have been in trouble.

The Arsenal thing is very weird and a perfect example of distorted narratives. The Wenger years were 5 PL titles plus 20 years of CL participation, plus domestic (mostly FA Cup wins).

The praise is very odd, they went from 8 strait years of being in top 2, from winning the title 5 times and constant CL participation to a club that hasn't won the PL in 20 years (yes, 20), hasn't won the league cup in 30, have been out of CL for 5+ years and basically have kept up appearances by focusing/winning FA Cups. While obviously that's more success than us, in the last 20 years it's been a fall from grace, not a success story