Daniel Levy - Chairman

[BrainOfLevy]

You are joking. Alternative events and NFL franchise is the spinner. And that's not going to cost much as the infrastructure has been built in.

No club has a team from the two most moneyed leagues in the world. That's the direction of travel.
To think that might be possible, let alone achieve it, is mind blowing for a non doped club.

This is the other thing that it comes down to. I get that with NFL games and extreme sports and Guns and Roses, we will make more money. Some of that will go towards the team in time. Cool.

But I want us to make the same push Liverpool have just done. They have always had a bigger global profile than us. They had some terrible owners, and then they got better ones. And they made a real push. They got a great manager. They backed him. When he said he needed a top CB, they made it happen. A top goalkeeper, they made it happen. They won trophies.

I want that for us. FSG went for it. They made some smart moves, they got a great price for Suarez, but they got exactly who Klopp wanted, not who John Henry thought might be good value in 5 years time. I want us to do the same, and I think if we were about to go for it in a similar fashion, we'd be attracting a really top manager.

I suppose I just want owners who are willing to invest a little bit more of their own money. I love that we are sustainable. I love that the stadium means we won't do a Leeds. I love that our baseline is now higher because of the stadium. I thank ENIC massively for that. But if we keep on trying to be sustainable and only spending what we earn, it's going to be bloody hard to ever win anything. I just want new owners who will go for it.

ENIC has a plan, and it's their plan. Many people here seem perfectly fine with this steady approach, assuming that one day we reach a point where it was all worth it. I just don't see it. Compared to ENIC, the owners of our rivals will always be willing to do more to keep them ahead. I am genuinely curious, to people think the Kroenke plan is the right one for Arsenal too? Does Levy get more leeway because he has done a fantastic job up until 2019, that he deserves to see this through? Because I think both us and Arsenal look very similar, and frankly I now completely understand why Arsenal fans want him gone too. The Kroenke plan is not to invest to make them challenge again - looking at it dispassionately, do people think Arsenal fans should also be happy?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It's like the cycle of PE buy-outs. A PE firm will invest in a company to get them to a certain point, and they will then sell the company to a bigger PE firm who is willing to invest more / do things differently to take them on the next stage of the journey. I think there must be an owner out there who is willing to take on the risk at this level, in order to make us truly elite, in the way that ENIC took on the risk at the level we were at, with the complex task of building a new stadium etc etc. They took on risk, they invested their time and some money. I want the next level up, someone who can take the risk at this scale and take us to where we want to go.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

This is the other thing that it comes down to. I get that with NFL games and extreme sports and Guns and Roses, we will make more money. Some of that will go towards the team in time. Cool.

But I want us to make the same push Liverpool have just done. They have always had a bigger global profile than us. They had some terrible owners, and then they got better ones. And they made a real push. They got a great manager. They backed him. When he said he needed a top CB, they made it happen. A top goalkeeper, they made it happen. They won trophies.

I want that for us. FSG went for it. They made some smart moves, they got a great price for Suarez, but they got exactly who Klopp wanted, not who John Henry thought might be good value in 5 years time. I want us to do the same, and I think if we were about to go for it in a similar fashion, we'd be attracting a really top manager.

I suppose I just want owners who are willing to invest a little bit more of their own money. I love that we are sustainable. I love that the stadium means we won't do a Leeds. I love that our baseline is now higher because of the stadium. I thank ENIC massively for that. But if we keep on trying to be sustainable and only spending what we earn, it's going to be bloody hard to ever win anything. I just want new owners who will go for it.

ENIC has a plan, and it's their plan. Many people here seem perfectly fine with this steady approach, assuming that one day we reach a point where it was all worth it. I just don't see it. Compared to ENIC, the owners of our rivals will always be willing to do more to keep them ahead. I am genuinely curious, to people think the Kroenke plan is the right one for Arsenal too? Does Levy get more leeway because he has done a fantastic job up until 2019, that he deserves to see this through? Because I think both us and Arsenal look very similar, and frankly I now completely understand why Arsenal fans want him gone too. The Kroenke plan is not to invest to make them challenge again - looking at it dispassionately, do people think Arsenal fans should also be happy?

Can't believe the word Coutinho hasn't made it into your post.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It's like the cycle of PE buy-outs. A PE firm will invest in a company to get them to a certain point, and they will then sell the company to a bigger PE firm who is willing to invest more / do things differently to take them on the next stage of the journey. I think there must be an owner out there who is willing to take on the risk at this level, in order to make us truly elite, in the way that ENIC took on the risk at the level we were at, with the complex task of building a new stadium etc etc. They took on risk, they invested their time and some money. I want the next level up, someone who can take the risk at this scale and take us to where we want to go.

I don’t think that buyer exists now with our value

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Can't believe the word Coutinho hasn't made it into your post.

Forgot about him...great price for Coutinho too. But by GHod did they use it well.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I don’t think that buyer exists now with our value

Bill Gates post divorce plaything. The stadium being renamed to 'The Xbox'.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Forgot about him...great price for Coutinho too. But by GHod did they use it well.

Serious point here...they backed Klopp with exactly who he wanted. They didn't try and spread the risk across 7 players because the resale value of all of them would be good in time. They just went for it. They knew they had a great manager, and backed him when they had the opportunity. They trusted in his vision.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Bill Gates post divorce plaything. The stadium being renamed to 'The Xbox'.

That’s the level of Bezos
Seriously though we could be the biggest side in Ali don with the right investment which would make us bigger than most sides in the world
Anyone interested though would need 2B plus. £1.8B to buy Enic out and a couple of £100m Into the squad

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Serious point here...they backed Klopp with exactly who he wanted. They didn't try and spread the risk across 7 players because the resale value of all of them would be good in time. They just went for it. They knew they had a great manager, and backed him when they had the opportunity. They trusted in his vision.

I also think they knew what they wanted so it was easier by default
Under Poch we rarely knew what the weaknesses were
Now we know
It makes it easier to buy, you just need the right players

 

[BrainOfLevy]

That’s the level of Bezos
Seriously though we could be the biggest side in Ali don with the right investment which would make us bigger than most sides in the world
Anyone interested though would need 2B plus. £1.8B to buy Enic out and a couple of £100m Into the squad

I guess ENIC will have to start paying themselves a serious dividend out of the club then, if we keep running ourselves so sustainably but can't find a buyer?

If Daniel Ek can front a bid of reportedly $1.8BN for Arsenal, there has to be someone in tech / finance that would do it for us.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It's like the cycle of PE buy-outs. A PE firm will invest in a company to get them to a certain point, and they will then sell the company to a bigger PE firm who is willing to invest more / do things differently to take them on the next stage of the journey. I think there must be an owner out there who is willing to take on the risk at this level, in order to make us truly elite, in the way that ENIC took on the risk at the level we were at, with the complex task of building a new stadium etc etc. They took on risk, they invested their time and some money. I want the next level up, someone who can take the risk at this scale and take us to where we want to go.

PE buy outs, rounds of funding etc are based on far more quantifiables and solid metrics than football clubs offer. Far too much is down to chance and luck to risk investors money. For any club whose turnover (not profit) is say 250m to expected to buy a single asset for 50m is risky as fudge. (Think Andy Carroll). The inflation of transfer fees and wages is a real problem for football.

That's why the potential buyer group is so limited, our value currently has little potential upside at the quoted valuation.

An NFL potential franchise is a juicy carrot...but I do have some worries about that.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I guess ENIC will have to start paying themselves a serious dividend out of the club then, if we keep running ourselves so sustainably but can't find a buyer?

If Daniel Ek can front a bid of reportedly $1.8BN for Arsenal, there has to be someone in tech / finance that would do it for us.

He can front a bid but I don’t think it will happen
He is only worth that sum himself
But right now we’re loss making
ENIC can’t pay themselves a penny. They have never taken money out of the club, but they have put anything of note in either

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Serious point here...they backed Klopp with exactly who he wanted. They didn't try and spread the risk across 7 players because the resale value of all of them would be good in time. They just went for it. They knew they had a great manager, and backed him when they had the opportunity. They trusted in his vision.

It was AVB we were backing with it, not Poch.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I also think they knew what they wanted so it was easier by default
Under Poch we rarely knew what the weaknesses were
Now we know
It makes it easier to buy, you just need the right players

This is an interesting point. I was trying to put my finger on why someone like Mourinho could force the team to restructure quicker. And this is exactly why: Poch could cover up weaknesses. He could take an average player and elevate them. But maybe 20% of the time they are still average. His talent for getting the most from players was a blessing, but it could also paper over the cracks.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It was AVB we were backing with it, not Poch.

I was being a little facetious, but I think it's clear we didn't back Poch when he was asking for less GKN's and more people who were proven and would genuinely level us up, and when it came to selling players he thought we should move.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This is an interesting point. I was trying to put my finger on why someone like Mourinho could force the team to restructure quicker. And this is exactly why: Poch could cover up weaknesses. He could take an average player and elevate them. But maybe 20% of the time they are still average. His talent for getting the most from players was a blessing, but it could also paper over the cracks.

I don’t think it’s that simple
Poch peak team was built over a number of years and most were here before him (hugo, Walker, verts, rose, dembele, Kane, eriksen, plus played he played a lot like Chadli and lamela)
What he did was bring them together with a few quality additions, but he did inherit some top top talent. Imagine having to buy a 30 goal a season striker and the cost associated with that
And I also don’t think he made average players better. I mean Kyle Walker has left us and win everything and got better for example, yet Poch was happy for him to go. trippier isn’t doing bad at Atletico too
What Poch did was unite the club (fans, players and board) and get the team playing as a unit.
Jose inherited a squad that he knew needed changes. But we didnt make them quick enough for him to implement his style and he got it wiring with what he had

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I was being a little facetious, but I think it's clear we didn't back Poch when he was asking for less GKN's and more people who were proven and would genuinely level us up, and when it came to selling players he thought we should move.

I'm sure if we sold someone for £137m we would have done. That's are large part of how Liverpool managed it.

We spent what our budget allowed. Whether we spent it well can be drilled down into, but we were never in the market for those pricey players. We c.ould of sold Eriksen at his peak, if the club's HE wanted to go to wanted him. And of course moving on the most creative midfielder in the league is open to criticism if it doesn't work out. It did for Liverpool, and they got an amazing price (but now partly crippling Barca).

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I'm sure if we sold someone for £137m we would have done. That's are large part of how Liverpool managed it.

We spent what our budget allowed. Whether we spent it well can be drilled down into, but we were never in the market for those pricey players. We c.ould of sold Eriksen at his peak, if the club's HE wanted to go to wanted him. And of course moving on the most creative midfielder in the league is open to criticism if it doesn't work out. It did for Liverpool, and they got an amazing price (but now partly crippling Barca).

It's more just backing the manager. You can be very precise about doing what they want with that windfall, or you can spread it. Or you can choose not to sell players, and let things go stale. It just comes down to backing and trust. We could have created funds if we moved on players. I thought the whole Walker / Sanchez / Aurier thing was handled superbly well, and was illustrative of a club strategically aligned. We took the opportunity to move on a player who would have been detrimental to the spirit, we replaced him with a player who could compete at CL level, and we also bought one of the best prospects in the world in his position in Sanchez. It was just very well done. And we stopped doing that sought of thing.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It's more just backing the manager. You can be very precise about doing what they want with that windfall, or you can spread it. Or you can choose not to sell players, and let things go stale. It just comes down to backing and trust. We could have created funds if we moved on players. I thought the whole Walker / Sanchez / Aurier thing was handled superbly well, and was illustrative of a club strategically aligned. We took the opportunity to move on a player who would have been detrimental to the spirit, we replaced him with a player who could compete at CL level, and we also bought one of the best prospects in the world in his position in Sanchez. It was just very well done. And we stopped doing that sought of thing.

But that leads us on to my original point.
Have a look here....
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tottenham-hotspur/alletransfers/verein/148
Your right 17/18 we moved players on for good money and brought in some fresh blood.
18/19 was the unplanned issues with the stadium (that people just appear to have forgot or even for a minute might stop to think it may have had an affect), to have that delay (with no guaranteed end date), lose virtually a whole season you had planned income for, postponed refinancing the stadium debt would have seriously effected your spending plans. (including factoring in Levy's risk averse nature)
We were left with selling to buy only. You can drill down into those individual cases and there is blame to be shared all over but I'm sure Poch said 'there is no point buying someone that isn't better than I've got' or something similar (may have been the party line?). Someone needs to come up with another viable reason he didn't back the manager (rather than the usual gonads)?
Remember many thought it would take a while for the stadium money to come thru BUT in 19/20 we spent £130m (backing Poch no less) and more surprisingly still had £100m for Jose, recouped £70m in fees.

This was largely due to the miraculous run to the CL final and the attached income, which is even sadder as Poch ultimately suffered most from all this.

If some clam just wired up the alarms properly,sigh

 

[DubaiSpur]

One other fact to consider -

City's new training ground (Etihad Campus) - 200m (!)
Leicester's new training ground (Seagrave) - 100m
Liverpool new training ground (Kirkby) - 50m
Everton's new training ground (Finch Farm) - 25m

Both Liverpool and Leicester have plans for stadium expansion as well, and Everton have their brand-new Bramley-Moore Dock stadium project. Should they all complete their projects within the next five years, they will have finished the same infrastructure expansions Levy did in less time than he took, with significant owner financing, and in the case of Liverpool and Leicester, with more success to show for it. Admittedly ours is an entirely new stadium, but so is Everton's, and given their owner is part-funding it, they'll be far less burdened by the costs than we will.

What exactly is the benefit of having ENIC around again?