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Daniel Levy - Chairman

DubaiSpur said:
One other fact to consider -

City's new training ground (Etihad Campus) - 200m (!)
Leicester's new training ground (Seagrave) - 100m
Liverpool new training ground (Kirkby) - 50m
Everton's new training ground (Finch Farm) - 25m

Both Liverpool and Leicester have plans for stadium expansion as well, and Everton have their brand-new Bramley-Moore Dock stadium project. Should they all complete their projects within the next five years, they will have finished the same infrastructure expansions Levy did in less time than he took, with significant owner financing, and in the case of Liverpool and Leicester, with more success to show for it. Admittedly ours is an entirely new stadium, but so is Everton's, and given their owner is part-funding it, they'll be far less burdened by the costs than we will.

What exactly is the benefit of having ENIC around again?
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Just gonna add to this
Everton need owner investment as they extended their lines of credit to buy players before. Their training ground isn’t new
Liverpool’s new state of the art training ground is quite a failure with players asking to go back to the old one. Issues with wind and facilities have been raised.
Leicesters new training ground is very good. Shame they never paid for their ground but that happens when clubs go bust
City have invested so much in their infrastructure. It allows them to create their own income streams/lies to make them look compliant to financial rules
And back in everton their owner is part funding it because their loan from the local council can’t happen due to bribery and corruption issues and their finances are too bad to borrow well
Also their income form the ground will still be much lower than ours.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Just gonna add to this
Everton need owner investment as they extended their lines of credit to buy players before. Their training ground isn’t new
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They finished their new training ground in 2008/2009, iirc - that isn't new? Our finished in 2012, so in that case, ours might not be either. ;)

Bedfordspurs said:
Liverpool’s new state of the art training ground is quite a failure with players asking to go back to the old one. Issues with wind and facilities have been raised.
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Fair enough mate, but whether the players like Kirkby isn't the issue - just using it to indicate that other owners have had the same idea as ENIC to invest in infrastructure, only they did it with personal investment while ENIC just barely-competently redirected the club's own money.

Bedfordspurs said:
Leicesters new training ground is very good. Shame they never paid for their ground but that happens when clubs go bust
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King Power was completed in 2002. Thai owners bought them in the early 2010s, and then paid to buy the ground too (they had leased it up to that point, iirc). In terms of ownership, them going bust in 2002 has nothing to do with infrastructure spending by their owners now.

Bedfordspurs said:
City have invested so much in their infrastructure. It allows them to create their own income streams/lies to make them look compliant to financial rules
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Yeah, but they've done it. They've also spent a billion quid on players, but again, just pointing out that infrastructure spending isn't unique to ENIC or some great idea on their part.

Bedfordspurs said:
And back in everton their owner is part funding it because their loan from the local council can’t happen due to bribery and corruption issues and their finances are too bad to borrow well
Also their income form the ground will still be much lower than ours.
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On the part of the council, not Everton - important to make that distinction. And for why the club needs owner financing, does it matter? They'll be less burdened by debt because of it - good deal on their end.

Point being, ENIC aren' t particularly good owners because they redirect the club's money into infrastructure in a somewhat-competent way, imo. They're middling managers, nothing more.
 
DubaiSpur said:
They finished their new training ground in 2008/2009, iirc - that isn't new? Our finished in 2012, so in that case, ours might not be either. ;)



Fair enough mate, but whether the players like Kirkby isn't the issue - just using it to indicate that other owners have had the same idea as ENIC to invest in infrastructure, only they did it with personal investment while ENIC just barely-competently redirected the club's own money.



King Power was completed in 2002. Thai owners bought them in the early 2010s, and then paid to buy the ground too (they had leased it up to that point, iirc). In terms of ownership, them going bust in 2002 has nothing to do with infrastructure spending by their owners now.



Yeah, but they've done it. They've also spent a billion quid on players, but again, just pointing out that infrastructure spending isn't unique to ENIC or some great idea on their part.



On the part of the council, not Everton - important to make that distinction. And for why the club needs owner financing, does it matter? They'll be less burdened by debt because of it - good deal on their end.

Point being, ENIC aren' t particularly good owners because they redirect the club's money into infrastructure in a somewhat-competent way, imo. They're middling managers, nothing more.
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Summary: I want a sugar daddy
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I always laugh at Derp

Its like us starting with Kane Son and PEH on the bench

Hardly Tactics 101. My Chelsea mates were fuming at the selection. Luckily it didn't blow up for their manager, he'd of been wide open for criticism.
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Our squad was too weak.... Had we done this back then we would've been starting with Jannsen, N'Koudou and Sissoko. It was a brilliant team that we had back then but the only positions where we had adequate cover for the first choice player was right and left back.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
You are joking. Alternative events and NFL franchise is the spinner. And that's not going to cost much as the infrastructure has been built in.

No club has a team from the two most moneyed leagues in the world. That's the direction of travel.
To think that might be possible, let alone achieve it, is mind blowing for a non doped club.
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I wonder how much we make out of the extra events? I'm sure it will get leaked at some point. My guess is that the stadium could be hired for something like £2 million with the body hiring it then having to pay the staff costs but also receiving all profit from tickets and refreshment sales with the value going up/down from there if we take a share/all of the sales and/or supply the staff. I suspect that the stadium could be worth as much as £20m a year in extra events post covid, which is in itself is probably about half of what we made in total for a season at WHL.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
To constantly wind you up....I think.
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If that's the aim mate, far cheaper to put my ex in charge. She'll assuredly spend more money than ENIC does, although the value to the club of some of her tastes may be... limited. :p

Baleforce said:
so @DubaiSpur, in summary, your schtick is still that we should have nice stuff, but someone else should pay for it?
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Nah. Point is, we shouldn't pretend our owners are anything other than useless deadweights.

We can be owned by the fans and hire a competent director to do Levy's job, without an iota of difference to the way we go about things or our spending levels. All ENIC does is manage us barely-competently - they do fudge all otherwise.

The proposals for fan ownership now floating around post-ESL actually excite me the most, because although nothing will change with regard to spending in a 50+1 German model, at least the club will be owned by Spurs fans who care about it as more than a real estate vehicle.

Failing that, ENIC are useless, why not get someone like FSG who know when to invest, speculate to accumulate?
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
PE buy outs, rounds of funding etc are based on far more quantifiables and solid metrics than football clubs offer. Far too much is down to chance and luck to risk investors money. For any club whose turnover (not profit) is say 250m to expected to buy a single asset for 50m is risky as fudge. (Think Andy Carroll). The inflation of transfer fees and wages is a real problem for football.

That's why the potential buyer group is so limited, our value currently has little potential upside at the quoted valuation.

An NFL potential franchise is a juicy carrot...but I do have some worries about that.
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I disagree with you here. I think the asset value of PL football clubs has one more round of big growth to go. Proper use of streaming services and subscription models will see huge increases in turnover for the biggest clubs. I think once that happens though then the asset value will have maxed out and then owners have to try to work out how they extract money from their businesses (a difficult thing which of course goes against the wishes of the fans). I foresee quite a few of the owners selling out for large profits just as the streaming and subscription model starts to boom and then leaving it to the next set of buyers to work out how they extract value from their asset who's natural appreciation in value will significantly slow from then on.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He can front a bid but I don’t think it will happen
He is only worth that sum himself
But right now we’re loss making
ENIC can’t pay themselves a penny. They have never taken money out of the club, but they have put anything of note in either
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To be fair we are only loss making due to covid (as is every club in the World I'd imagine). Pre covid we ran at significant profits almost every year.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I disagree with you here. I think the asset value of PL football clubs has one more round of big growth to go. Proper use of streaming services and subscription models will see huge increases in turnover for the biggest clubs. I think once that happens though then the asset value will have maxed out and then owners have to try to work out how they extract money from their businesses (a difficult thing which of course goes against the wishes of the fans). I foresee quite a few of the owners selling out for large profits just as the streaming and subscription model starts to boom and then leaving it to the next set of buyers to work out how they extract value from their asset who's natural appreciation in value will significantly slow from then on.
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I agree with the streaming side
But that could conflict with the investment from home TV which is still the big driver in money in the prem.

Who would you see buying these clubs though?

That’s what I can’t work out. The club values now are so high for what is a volatile industry it just seems daft for an investment model, hence why it’s the sugar daddy more that has had the biggest influence in change of clubs prospects.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I disagree with you here. I think the asset value of PL football clubs has one more round of big growth to go. Proper use of streaming services and subscription models will see huge increases in turnover for the biggest clubs. I think once that happens though then the asset value will have maxed out and then owners have to try to work out how they extract money from their businesses (a difficult thing which of course goes against the wishes of the fans). I foresee quite a few of the owners selling out for large profits just as the streaming and subscription model starts to boom and then leaving it to the next set of buyers to work out how they extract value from their asset who's natural appreciation in value will significantly slow from then on.
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You could be right. It'll be an interesting shake up of the model, broadcast wise.

They definitely have a problem with any income increase just gravitates towards players, agents and wages. And the players are the shiny toys fans want, so the constant pressure is there to buy them.
 
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