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American politics

braineclipse said:
Arguably Trump himself may not be that radical, but it doesn't really matter.

I don't think Trump himself is against abortion for example. He's not that radical. Still, through him, abortion rights are weakened.

If Trump could get power and money from being president representing the unicorns, rainbows and puppies party he would.

He's as radical as whoever he has to associate with to get power and money. And he's associating with some rather radical people at the moment.
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I would probably add attempted coup and killing thousands through his mishandling of the pandemic into the radical bucket. The list of bizarre things he tried to do but was ultimately halted by his own administration has disappeared down the memory hole for some folks , but 'sane republicans' will not be present in the next administration if he gets in. He will have free rein to kill protesters and nuke hurricanes and who knows what else if he feels like it.
 
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Rorschach said:
I would probably add attempted coup and killing thousand through his mishandling of the pandemic into the radical bucket. The list of bizarre things he tried to do but was ultimately halted by his own administration has disappeared down the memory hole for some folks , but 'sane republicans' will not be present in the next administration if he gets in. He will have free rain to kill protesters and nuke hurricanes and who knows what else if he feels like it.
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Maybe I am imagining it and TBH I take alot less interest in politics, but seems whenever I catch a comment on tele or the news there is alot more almost acceptance within his own party than there was, seems all have kinda had their bellies tickled and rolled over this time which is sad. Regardless if its Trump or otherwise abit of resistance is good to keep people "honest". Seems none of that currently from what I have seen
 
Grays_1890 said:
Maybe I am imagining it and TBH I take alot less interest in politics, but seems whenever I catch a comment on tele or the news there is alot more almost acceptance within his own party than there was, seems all have kinda had their bellies tickled and rolled over this time which is sad. Regardless if its Trump or otherwise abit of resistance is good to keep people "honest". Seems none of that currently from what I have seen
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Probably the copious amounts of Trumpy Kool-aid
 
Grays_1890 said:
Maybe I am imagining it and TBH I take alot less interest in politics, but seems whenever I catch a comment on tele or the news there is alot more almost acceptance within his own party than there was, seems all have kinda had their bellies tickled and rolled over this time which is sad. Regardless if its Trump or otherwise abit of resistance is good to keep people "honest". Seems none of that currently from what I have seen
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His main opponent in the primaries Nikki Haley has bent the knee in that RNC event that is going on. They all do in the end or they are ousted like Cheney or Kinzinger. All that left now is sycophants and toadies. The GOP is dead as a party. And speaking of toads Mitch McConnell was roundly booed at this same event yesterday while also prostrating himself before Trump, which was lovely to see mind, but it shows in stark terms where the locus of power in the party has now moved to.
 
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Rorschach said:
His main opponent in the primaries Nikki Haley has bent the knee in that RNC event that is going on. They all do in the end or they are ousted like Cheney or Kinzinger. All that left now is sycophants and toadies. The GOP is dead as a party. And speaking of toads Mitch McConnell was roundly booed at this same event yesterday while also prostrating himself before Trump, which was lovely to see mind, but it shows in stark terms where the locus of power in the party has now moved to.
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Good insight, cheers pal
 
Rorschach said:
I would probably add attempted coup and killing thousands through his mishandling of the pandemic into the radical bucket. The list of bizarre things he tried to do but was ultimately halted by his own administration has disappeared down the memory hole for some folks , but 'sane republicans' will not be present in the next administration if he gets in. He will have free rein to kill protesters and nuke hurricanes and who knows what else if he feels like it.
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Just to clarify my opinion (I think we agree, I agree with everything you said).

I agree that he's done radical stuff, no doubts. But that it's more a result of others wanting it or it serving his interests. Not because his values or views of the world or overall policies are particularly radical. I don't think he has many of those outside of just being a self serving narcissistic piece of brick.

There not being anyone to tell him no is a scary thought. Because he will do radical stuff as a result of the above imo.
 
braineclipse said:
Just to clarify my opinion (I think we agree, I agree with everything you said).

I agree that he's done radical stuff, no doubts. But that it's more a result of others wanting it or it serving his interests. Not because his values or views of the world or overall policies are particularly radical. I don't think he has many of those outside of just being a self serving narcissistic piece of brick.

There not being anyone to tell him no is a scary thought. Because he will do radical stuff as a result of the above imo.
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We are in accord.
 
thfcsteff said:
First of all, I'm writing my views on a Tottenham Hotspur forum subpage. Hardly 'doing Trumps publicity work' for him is it. I actively don't use my other social media to comment on him. You'd do well to know more about people before you make such assumptions.

Whether it is your 'bugbear' or not, it is the case. This part of the game is real. Sitting in some purported position of elevated awareness over the way this game is played does not mean it isn't happening. So your choice is very clear, either continue to ignore what exists or do some research as to why we're here.

You didn't ask any such direct questions about his first term by the way. I could give you a list, but frankly, I think you need to do some homework. You freely admit you don't know anything about project 25, and somehow manage to trivialise his work with the Supreme Court.

Rhetoric has consequences if repeated loudly. Check history. You have proof in Trump's case unless you think Jan 6th was a Gerard Butler film.

Seriously, do some homework.
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The point was a general one not aimed at you, idk why you seem to have taken offense. There’s clearly a fixation with Trump. Across the world. Many who can’t vote in US elections seem transfixed. And that’s Trumps shtick - get attention and publicity. You’re fully in, bitten the bait.

Thank you for outlining my choice! I am to either do some research or remain ignorant! 😭 No one can question the hegemonic narrative of the anti-trump tribe. Research it or be condemned!

The way to oust Trump is not to reach down to the same level. Or to (unintentionally) further an alternative in-group that vies against, it just feeds energy and publicity to him; and makes Trump stronger. Posts in this thread suggesting Trump changed laws on abortion are the kinds of half truths that Trump and his cronies spout. Surely taking the high ground and being factual, rather than emulating idiots who spread half truths, is the way to go.

I have better things to do than fixate over a presidential candidate, so I won’t be ‘researching’ him and putting more negative energy into the overflowing pot. If I’ve offended you by offering an alternative viewpoint I can only apologise.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Yes exactly. And didn’t Trump push back against China, unlike his predecessors. We should be balanced even though Trump is an imbecile of the highest grade.
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He says that to appeal to the unskilled American worker, but all the Trump merch is probably made there, not to mention all the crap people get off Amazon and the new Chinese apps to fill the void in their soul. Wonder what they'll say when everything suddenly becomes a lot more expensive? Actually I know, they'll just blame the democrats and life goes on as before.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The point was a general one not aimed at you, idk why you seem to have taken offense. There’s clearly a fixation with Trump. Across the world. Many who can’t vote in US elections seem transfixed. And that’s Trumps shtick - get attention and publicity. You’re fully in, bitten the bait.

Thank you for outlining my choice! I am to either do some research or remain ignorant! 😭 No one can question the hegemonic narrative of the anti-trump tribe. Research it or be condemned!

The way to oust Trump is not to reach down to the same level. Or to (unintentionally) further an alternative in-group that vies against, it just feeds energy and publicity to him; and makes Trump stronger. Posts in this thread suggesting Trump changed laws on abortion are the kinds of half truths that Trump and his cronies spout. Surely taking the high ground and being factual, rather than emulating idiots who spread half truths, is the way to go.

I have better things to do than fixate over a presidential candidate, so I won’t be ‘researching’ him and putting more negative energy into the overflowing pot. If I’ve offended you by offering an alternative viewpoint I can only apologise.
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There is a time and a place to ignore dangerous people, starve them off attention. Trump is way past that stage.

Depending on the context of the conversation it's perfectly fine to ask someone to read up on something on their own rather than to just answer a question directly. You having people disagreeing with you doesn't mean there's a hegemonic narrative that people aren't allowed to disagree with. Plenty of disagreement in this thread.

Trump put supreme court justices in place that made decisions that made those abortion law changes possible. As people warned about when he appointed those judges and before the first time he was elected. I think that would have been useful information to have been spared further before he was elected.

People get transfixed, perhaps. Not much of that going on here. Some people on a football forum posting a bit about political stuff when relevant. People care because Trump is dangerous and imo is a real danger to human well being within and outside the US.

Even if the chances of the US turning further towards authoritarianism is smaller than what some people think there being any risk of that is something worth taking seriously, knowing about, talking about.
 
Rorschach said:
His main opponent in the primaries Nikki Haley has bent the knee in that RNC event that is going on. They all do in the end or they are ousted like Cheney or Kinzinger. All that left now is sycophants and toadies. The GOP is dead as a party. And speaking of toads Mitch McConnell was roundly booed at this same event yesterday while also prostrating himself before Trump, which was lovely to see mind, but it shows in stark terms where the locus of power in the party has now moved to.
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Well said.
 
Answers below...

SpurMeUp said:
The point was a general one not aimed at you, idk why you seem to have taken offense.
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You told me I was aboard the hype train when frankly, you have no idea what I am or aren't. You simply projected your assumption. I found that offensive, yes.

SpurMeUp said:
There’s clearly a fixation with Trump. Across the world. Many who can’t vote in US elections seem transfixed. And that’s Trumps shtick - get attention and publicity. You’re fully in, bitten the bait.
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If you insist on saying 'you're' then I will insist on taking it personally. Let me make something very clear. Whether you think I am 'biting the bait' or not, there are your perceptions versus cold reality. And unless you've been under a rock, or are some sort of denialist, then whether Trump is schtick or not is utterly irrelevant because he has absolutely inserted himself into global politics. It isn't hard to figure this out, yiou simply have to accept the dialectic FACT i.e. Trump is a narcissistic cheap entertainer-based blowhard AND he has also influenced US politics, policy, and the Supreme Court beyond normal scope.

SpurMeUp said:
Thank you for outlining my choice! I am to either do some research or remain ignorant! 😭 No one can question the hegemonic narrative of the anti-trump tribe. Research it or be condemned!
Click to expand...

Why don't you just hold your hands up and say you didn't know how the Supreme Court works? Or can you never admit what you don't know? I'll continue to outline your choices over and over again IF you in turn continue to tell people what they don't understand, cannot see, or themselves don't understand. Please. KNOW your argument before you make it.

SpurMeUp said:
The way to oust Trump is not to reach down to the same level. Or to (unintentionally) further an alternative in-group that vies against, it just feeds energy and publicity to him; and makes Trump stronger.
Click to expand...

This is a different discussion. I think there's a delicate balance here. US politics is so performative at this point that there has to be a higher level of grandstanding from the Dems, but equally I agree, maintaining high ground (and reinforcing the positives of policy) is certainly vital. The way the ticket has opened up, there is at least clarity. Trump/Vance v Biden/Harris is pretty clear.

SpurMeUp said:
Posts in this thread suggesting Trump changed laws on abortion are the kinds of half truths that Trump and his cronies spout.
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Read this.
http://peacewomen.org/resource/one-year-trump-dismantled-reproductive-rights-around-world

SpurMeUp said:
Surely taking the high ground and being factual, rather than emulating idiots who spread half truths, is the way to go.
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Again, I think this is a different adjunct to what the initial conversation was, and again, I agree to an extent. However, as Hillary Clinton found to her chagrin, if you take ground which is too high, you'll be seen as an 'elitist' so the balance has to be perfect.

SpurMeUp said:
I have better things to do than fixate over a presidential candidate, so I won’t be ‘researching’ him and putting more negative energy into the overflowing pot. If I’ve offended you by offering an alternative viewpoint I can only apologise.
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Understood. In closing, I hope for your own benefit you do take the time to view US politics a little more holistically. Like yourself, I do not 'fixate' on a specific candidate, it'd be like playing chess and fixating on one piece. There's a board at play here, and like it or not, the UK, Europe, and indeed everywhere will be affected by what happens in the US this November.

I appreciate the apology, it is sometimes very tough to gauge how people are via their writing (these chats are often much better in pubs or cafes!) and I also apologise if I have been rude in my responses..

COYS
 
SpurMeUp said:
Yes exactly. And didn’t Trump push back against China, unlike his predecessors. We should be balanced even though Trump is an imbecile of the highest grade.
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I actually don't think he is. In fact, what he has managed to spearhead/the vehicle he has managed to comandeer and drive since early 2016, is frankly unbelievable. He has mastered the art of lying and gaslighting to an incredible degree behyond even the worst sociopath. When I view him from outside my own personal opinions, I actually think he is incredibly smart.
 
braineclipse said:
There is a time and a place to ignore dangerous people, starve them off attention. Trump is way past that stage.

Depending on the context of the conversation it's perfectly fine to ask someone to read up on something on their own rather than to just answer a question directly. You having people disagreeing with you doesn't mean there's a hegemonic narrative that people aren't allowed to disagree with. Plenty of disagreement in this thread.

Trump put supreme court justices in place that made decisions that made those abortion law changes possible. As people warned about when he appointed those judges and before the first time he was elected. I think that would have been useful information to have been spared further before he was elected.

People get transfixed, perhaps. Not much of that going on here. Some people on a football forum posting a bit about political stuff when relevant. People care because Trump is dangerous and imo is a real danger to human well being within and outside the US.

Even if the chances of the US turning further towards authoritarianism is smaller than what some people think there being any risk of that is something worth taking seriously, knowing about, talking about.
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Well said as always.
The saddest thing is how (again!) nobody took Trump seriously again these past couple of years., despite all he'd already done!!!!
 
thfcsteff said:
Answers below...



You told me I was aboard the hype train when frankly, you have no idea what I am or aren't. You simply projected your assumption. I found that offensive, yes.



If you insist on saying 'you're' then I will insist on taking it personally. Let me make something very clear. Whether you think I am 'biting the bait' or not, there are your perceptions versus cold reality. And unless you've been under a rock, or are some sort of denialist, then whether Trump is schtick or not is utterly irrelevant because he has absolutely inserted himself into global politics. It isn't hard to figure this out, yiou simply have to accept the dialectic FACT i.e. Trump is a narcissistic cheap entertainer-based blowhard AND he has also influenced US politics, policy, and the Supreme Court beyond normal scope.



Why don't you just hold your hands up and say you didn't know how the Supreme Court works? Or can you never admit what you don't know? I'll continue to outline your choices over and over again IF you in turn continue to tell people what they don't understand, cannot see, or themselves don't understand. Please. KNOW your argument before you make it.



This is a different discussion. I think there's a delicate balance here. US politics is so performative at this point that there has to be a higher level of grandstanding from the Dems, but equally I agree, maintaining high ground (and reinforcing the positives of policy) is certainly vital. The way the ticket has opened up, there is at least clarity. Trump/Vance v Biden/Harris is pretty clear.



Read this.
http://peacewomen.org/resource/one-year-trump-dismantled-reproductive-rights-around-world



Again, I think this is a different adjunct to what the initial conversation was, and again, I agree to an extent. However, as Hillary Clinton found to her chagrin, if you take ground which is too high, you'll be seen as an 'elitist' so the balance has to be perfect.



Understood. In closing, I hope for your own benefit you do take the time to view US politics a little more holistically. Like yourself, I do not 'fixate' on a specific candidate, it'd be like playing chess and fixating on one piece. There's a board at play here, and like it or not, the UK, Europe, and indeed everywhere will be affected by what happens in the US this November.

I appreciate the apology, it is sometimes very tough to gauge how people are via their writing (these chats are often much better in pubs or cafes!) and I also apologise if I have been rude in my responses..

COYS
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I appreciate the effort. I’m just not interested enough in Trump to engage more. Even though his phenomenon is fascinating. How he builds publicity. And how his opponents end up helping to define and intensify his support. And now this millimetres from death event which is just perfect for him. You couldn’t write it. He is a master of publicity. He doesn’t get double the air time of other presidents (he’s not even the president)
He must get 4 or 5 times the coverage.

And as you allude, there is something to admire or at least understand there. It’s not all by design, he’s building on an undercurrent. And similar to Brexit I think the opponents fail often to appreciate the perspective of those who are disaffected. And how stale politics has become. The Starmers of this world - decent hard working cogent - are up against a publicity machine which perpetuates itself with opponents as well as supporters. It is quite unique.

Do I want to take part in it? No absolutely not. I have no vote or say. I don’t like the guy. I don’t respect the way he operates. And he’s not even president. The longer I can ignore the chump the better (the current irony of this post is not lost on me!). But he is entertaining for many. For those that enjoy his clowning, just as many liked Boris’, they are free to do so.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
I appreciate the effort. I’m just not interested enough in Trump to engage more. Even though his phenomenon is fascinating. How he builds publicity. And how his opponents end up helping to define and intensify his support. And now this millimetres from death event which is just perfect for him. You couldn’t write it. He is a master of publicity. He doesn’t get double the air time of other presidents (he’s not even the president)
He must get 4 or 5 times the coverage.

And as you allude, there is something to admire or at least understand there. It’s not all by design, he’s building an undercurrent. And similar to Brexit I think the opponents fail often to appreciate the perspective of those who are disaffected. And how stale politics has become. The Starmers of this world - decent hard working cogent - are up against a publicity machine which perpetuates itself with opponents as well as supporters. It is quite unique.

Do I want to take part in it? No absolutely not. I have no vote or say. I don’t like the guy. I don’t respect the way he operates. And he’s not even president. The longer I can ignore the chump the better (the current irony of this post is not lost on me!). But he is entertaining for many. For those that enjoy his clowning, just as many liked Boris’, they are free to do so.
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All you say about him is true, and has been forever. The sad fact is that he/the current GOP are more dangerous than ever. Many many millions of Americans cannot afford themselves the luxury of ignoring him, and sadly, I don't think us Brits/ex-pats/Europeans/Asians can either.
 
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