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American politics

spurspinter1 said:
The actual teachings, not the way they've been interpreted for profit making reasons / an excuse to colonize everywhere.

Jesus supposedly helped the poor and wasn't super judgemental ie hung around with prostitutes / thieves etc. Gave everyone bread and fishes instead of telling them to just work harder to get their own bread and fish.

There are probably extreme examples going the other way but again, it's the interpretation of various people at various stages.

I think it's more productive to observe leanings rather than making a huge spectrum of people out to be a monolith ie the right did this, the left did that. By that point you're already squabbling based on huge generalizations which overlook nuance.
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The church has always been about controlling the proles. Stop them pushing the elite for things like fair property rights, fair wages. Scaring them into submission by threats of damnation. Its a fairytail to repress the masses.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Creepy old men reasserting their control over women
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I know I've said some strong to you over the past few days, and I stand by them BTW, but I'm not picking on you with this post, it just happens to be you that has posed an interesting point.

What age are you? Are you old?
Could anyone call you creepy?
By telling women whether they can or can't have abortions aren't you asserting control over them?

Abortion is one of many issues that I don't think anyone else other than the person experiencing it should have any say in, especially not governments and definitely not any religious group.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Obviously the first point can be lodged under rhetoric. He’s not even president yet and he’s distancing himself from it.

He no doubt moved the judiciary to the right by appointing right wingers. But it’s not like he got rid of the justice system. Appointing his people is so radical?

Trump is all about hype and free publicity. The reality is less extreme than the hype train - which you’re on. Which people in the UK are even sucked into.
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Come on, this has to be a wind-up. You cannot have written this seriously? This reads like Alan Partridge 'explaining the issues' to me hahahaha...
 
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SpurMeUp said:
I’m no Trump defender, but weren’t the recent abortion laws passed under Bidens term in office?
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Learn how it works!!!!! Please. Take even a shallow dive into the Supreme Court and how it operates.

Do you have any notion of what Judge Cannon just did? It's breathtaking!!!! Here, please, just try to gauge it...and these strings were all put in place several years ago pre-Biden Presidency.
 
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braineclipse said:
Imo a really good and useful analysis of the current situation (not the shooting) by Robert Evans on the It Could Happen Here podcast titled Don't Panic.

Think it could be of interest to several of you. Obviously not saying he's right, but a good perspective.
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Gave it a listen, thanks for the tip. Lots to agree with, albeit I think he is very scared and looking to find hope.

Personally, I am not panicking or overly anxious. There's no point. I see the world as working on trajectories, and currently we are on one which is seeing extremism and polarisation everywhere. In many ways my own deep sense of acceptance of where we stand is disturbing; I could be viewed as 'giving up' but it helps me function on a daily
basis, besides, pouring anxious energy into undetermined outcomes seems self-defeating.

In many ways what SpurMeUp said has some accuracy; it is almost a form of 'entertainment' and that in itself should be enough to scare the brick out of anyone who believes this is all just 'hype' and it really 'won't be that bad' (January 6th apparently didn't scare people enough).

There is a dangerous alliance in the US between theocratic hardline extremist Christians, facists, and people who simply like to 'hate' anything which 'threatens' their 'sovereignty'...it's a weird and messy place but the GOP are talented at coalescing into a wedge to shove the ball over the line, after which they'll worry about who scored the actual try...

Again thanks for the pod tip...
 
thfcsteff said:
Yes.
Everyone thinks Project 2025 is a new thing. He and his cronies have been buliding this for years. As for how radical, this guy managed to recallibrate the supreme court into a customer service centre for his needs; that's pretty radical in my book...
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Arguably Trump himself may not be that radical, but it doesn't really matter.

I don't think Trump himself is against abortion for example. He's not that radical. Still, through him, abortion rights are weakened.

If Trump could get power and money from being president representing the unicorns, rainbows and puppies party he would.

He's as radical as whoever he has to associate with to get power and money. And he's associating with some rather radical people at the moment.
 
thfcsteff said:
Learn how it works!!!!! Please. Take even a shallow dive into the Supreme Court and how it operates.

Do you have any notion of what Judge Cannon just did? It's breathtaking!!!! Here, please, just try to gauge it...and these strings were all put in place several years ago pre-Biden Presidency.
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And it's just getting started. They will probably move much further than this. And it will last for a generation even if Trump never sees the inside of the oval office again. If he does, who knows...
 
Gutter Boy said:
The church has always been about controlling the proles. Stop them pushing the elite for things like fair property rights, fair wages. Scaring them into submission by threats of damnation. Its a fairytail to repress the masses.
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Baleforce said:
All religions are heavily right wing.

Ruling through fear, allowing no dissenting thought.
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I've seemingly sparked off some chuckle brother level tag team of ignorance / mass generalisations which I don't really have the enthusiasm to attempt to counter especially as this is the American politics thread.

Thank GHod Hitler was an atheist, given how evil religion clearly and obviously is in absolutely every guise, imagine how bad he'd have been if he was under the influence of a religion that asks people to treat people nicely. If he'd been brainwashed by the fascist Buddhist regime he could have been a real problematic character so it's great that we averted that disaster.
 
thfcsteff said:
Ha! Joke's on you mate if you believe that. This is something the UK needs to be very scared of. Farage was arguably a chief architect of this narrative back in 2015/16, he remains in the pocket, he now has Parliamentary access, and all are part of a wider dragnet. I have to also say, if you find anything about Project 25 entertaining more than alarmingly scary, we should probably never make plans to go for a fun night out together, as it would appear yours involves a great deal of darkness :p...obviously I know the broader stroke you're painting here, and yes, existentially it's like an episode of MASH meets Perrin on acid, but thefacts behind it (and everything happening in the US right now) should scare the brick out of you at those moments when you think about it (and believe me, I try not to!!!!!)...
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Why people focus so much on Trump is my big bugbear. You oppose all he stands for yet you add to his publicity and myth. Folks in the UK never used to spend so much time worrying about the US president. Biden and Obama do not get half of his air time. And here you are adding to the Trump hype, ironic seeing as you’d love to see him disappear.

In reality you’re worrying about something that is rhetoric. It hasn’t happened and won’t happen even if he does become president. I don’t even know what this project 25 nonsense is, but I’m sure it’s his usual fascist leaning crap that gets people’s attention. When asked, what was so radical about his first term - not rhetoric but actual actions taken - Trumps warping of the judiciary to the right was the most radical thing you could identify. You were asking to use the currency of facts not so long ago. Let’s not do Trumps publicity work for him and add to his hype.
 
thfcsteff said:
Gave it a listen, thanks for the tip. Lots to agree with, albeit I think he is very scared and looking to find hope.

Personally, I am not panicking or overly anxious. There's no point. I see the world as working on trajectories, and currently we are on one which is seeing extremism and polarisation everywhere. In many ways my own deep sense of acceptance of where we stand is disturbing; I could be viewed as 'giving up' but it helps me function on a daily
basis, besides, pouring anxious energy into undetermined outcomes seems self-defeating.

In many ways what SpurMeUp said has some accuracy; it is almost a form of 'entertainment' and that in itself should be enough to scare the brick out of anyone who believes this is all just 'hype' and it really 'won't be that bad' (January 6th apparently didn't scare people enough).

There is a dangerous alliance in the US between theocratic hardline extremist Christians, facists, and people who simply like to 'hate' anything which 'threatens' their 'sovereignty'...it's a weird and messy place but the GOP are talented at coalescing into a wedge to shove the ball over the line, after which they'll worry about who scored the actual try...

Again thanks for the pod tip...
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He probably is scared, as you say yourself not without reason. I don't think he's one for baseless hope, but I should have course be mistaken about that.

It really is a dangerous alliance that also includes the interests of several big companies, billionaires and quite a few grifters.
 
braineclipse said:
Arguably Trump himself may not be that radical, but it doesn't really matter.

I don't think Trump himself is against abortion for example. He's not that radical. Still, through him, abortion rights are weakened.

If Trump could get power and money from being president representing the unicorns, rainbows and puppies party he would.

He's as radical as whoever he has to associate with to get power and money. And he's associating with some rather radical people at the moment.
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But he certainly does like a system which can be used to allow his behaviour to go unpunished...he's been in bed with this lot for a long time at this point.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Why people focus so much on Trump is my big bugbear. You oppose all he stands for yet you add to his publicity and myth. Folks in the UK never used to spend so much time worrying about the US president. Biden and Obama do not get half of his air time. And here you are adding to the Trump hype, ironic seeing as you’d love to see him disappear.

In reality you’re worrying about something that is rhetoric. It hasn’t happened and won’t happen even if he does become president. I don’t even know what this project 25 nonsense is, but I’m sure it’s his usual fascist leaning crap that gets people’s attention. When asked, what was so radical about his first term - not rhetoric but actual actions taken - Trumps warping of the judiciary to the right was the most radical thing you could identify. You were asking to use the currency of facts not so long ago. Let’s not do Trumps publicity work for him and add to his hype.
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First of all, I'm writing my views on a Tottenham Hotspur forum subpage. Hardly 'doing Trumps publicity work' for him is it. I actively don't use my other social media to comment on him. You'd do well to know more about people before you make such assumptions.

Whether it is your 'bugbear' or not, it is the case. This part of the game is real. Sitting in some purported position of elevated awareness over the way this game is played does not mean it isn't happening. So your choice is very clear, either continue to ignore what exists or do some research as to why we're here.

You didn't ask any such direct questions about his first term by the way. I could give you a list, but frankly, I think you need to do some homework. You freely admit you don't know anything about project 25, and somehow manage to trivialise his work with the Supreme Court.

Rhetoric has consequences if repeated loudly. Check history. You have proof in Trump's case unless you think Jan 6th was a Gerard Butler film.

Seriously, do some homework.
 
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thfcsteff said:
But he certainly does like a system which can be used to allow his behaviour to go unpunished...he's been in bed with this lot for a long time at this point.
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Oh absolutely. Anything that allows him more power and money he will be all in favour of. If the most lefty policies gave him the best chance of that it would be what he would be championing - for his own benefit.
 
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