ENIC

[Finney Is Back]

Frankly I think the quality of the PL as a peak peak competition as in the elite, is really poor. I think as a competition the traditional lesser clubs are better for sure. But if I look at the top 2/3 clubs now, I don't think they are out of this world brilliant which was my main point.

Again, I disagree. UEFA Coefficients

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The people interested in buying THFC aren't necessarily interested just to make money. We've gone through that stage now. Lewis and Levy were those buyers and have milked that cow and increased their own net worth by a significant amount.

Our next buyer (should they ever arrive) will be one who is buying us for prestige and power, not just to make money.

Yep
Sports washing
It’s the only viable option
Unless it’s US private equity

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Again, I disagree. UEFA Coefficients

I do t think the prem is good at all this year
It’s why pool have cruised it
It’s more competitive though so it looks better on the outside

 

[Finney Is Back]

I do t think the prem is good at all this year
It’s why pool have cruised it
It’s more competitive though so it looks better on the outside

Again, I disagree. I think the premier league is getting better and better. Even teams like Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Wolves, Fulham and Saudi Sportswashing Machine have excellent players in their teams. The financial might of the PL now means that even relegation battlers in the PL can afford players that top 6 contenders in Italy, Spain and Germany cannot afford. The standard is higher than ever.

Liverpool have been fantastic, they had a great team under Klopp and their football department got it right in terms of the replacement so there was very little transition from one style to another. They are cruising to the title because Emirates Marketing Project have significantly dropped their level this year but I think even had Emirates Marketing Project been on their game then this Liverpool team would've won the title.

 

[Grays_1890]

I do t think the prem is good at all this year
It’s why pool have cruised it
It’s more competitive though so it looks better on the outside

Absolutely, Liverpool and TBF to Slot have been a mix of efficient and very good, Arsenal IMO look efficient without being spectacular (I actually think they are starting to look worse under Arteta now) and CIty have been appalling. Forest have been very good and very solid but everyones drop off has allowed them to walk through the door.

Chelsea are terrible, which is interesting as a few on here said they would be close to winning stuff this year, but another who have spent big and not gone forward.

All in all the middle section of the league has improved and closed gaps, but the top have had drop off.

 

[Grays_1890]

Again, I disagree. UEFA Coefficients

You can but then you have gone on and said exactly what I have said about City after, so I don't think we are far apart in what we are saying.

 

[Finney Is Back]

You can but then you have gone on and said exactly what I have said about City after, so I don't think we are far apart in what we are saying.

Both Spurs and Man Utd are in the last 8 of the Europa League, yet are 13th and 14th in the Premier League. Aston Villa are in the last 8 of the Champions League and yet only 9th in the Premier League. That shows how good the Premier League is IMO.

 

[Grays_1890]

Both Spurs and Man Utd are in the last 8 of the Europa League, yet are 13th and 14th in the Premier League. Aston Villa are in the last 8 of the Champions League and yet only 9th in the Premier League. That shows how good the Premier League is IMO.

But thats not really a reflection of the quality of the Prem, if the Italian league was that of the 90s and so on and so on then yeh, but being able to out run the fat kid in the playground doesn't make me Linford Christie

 

[DubaiSpur]

Only a fool would see a football club as a pure investment play full stop.

It's horses for courses in the football club buying world. Someone wanting to buy us is not going to be interested in doing a regional phoenix from the flames rescue job.

We are a mature club, with so much already in place, financially killing it (in football terms) ...so really just someone that wants to ice the cake.

Spinning a feel-good story would also be far from the main priority. It would be a secondary goal, but not the primary one.

For a £3 Bn transaction, any prospective owners will care about different things. First and foremost, the club is within easy reach of the City, Whitehall and Parliament. Easy to wine and dine financiers, bureaucrats and politicians, especially at the first-class facilities at the new ground. The media attention would also be welcome, and finally, the real estate possibilities in one of the most expensive markets in the world per square foot.

We'd be bought by someone either looking to use us as a geopolitical tool to secure UK patronage for their kingdom/state, or as an entry into the UK's real estate market.

However, the reason why that would still be better for the club than the current detestable deadweights, is that you can only sell a premium product if it has the pedigree to match. The grandeur of owning one of Britain's largest clubs with some of the best facilities, would rely heavily on there also being on-pitch success to impress the UK's various power-brokers.

Slumming it around the relegation spots (or even in the Championship, should current trends continue) with a mediocre, dirt-cheap chancer in charge of a dirt-cheap (wages-wise) squad of teenagers will not give any new owners what they likely would want. Hence, it's reasonable to expect any new owners to bring investment, and ambition - and an end to the 25-year purgatory we've been in.

 

[DubSpur]

But thats not really a reflection of the quality of the Prem, if the Italian league was that of the 90s and so on and so on then yeh, but being able to out run the fat kid in the playground doesn't make me Linford Christie

It looks like there's been a drop off in quality because Liverpool have walked the league. They've been relentless and the peak City team is probably the only team better in recent years. City and Arsenal have dropped off this year, so there's less teams at the really elite level that has been needed to win the PL for the last few years.
Below that the quality has improved with the teams in the top 10 all being of good quality and most likely would be top 4 in every other country or at least competing for it.

 

[Grays_1890]

It looks like there's been a drop off in quality because Liverpool have walked the league. They've been relentless and the peak City team is probably the only team better in recent years. City and Arsenal have dropped off this year, so there's less teams at the really elite level that has been needed to win the PL for the last few years.
Below that the quality has improved with the teams in the top 10 all being of good quality and most likely would be top 4 in every other country or at least competing for it.

For me there has been a noticeable drop off at the top end of the scale, globally, which plays to your point IMO.

I don't think football as a whole is anywhere near the same quality at the elite level of the game, its changed to athletes that can do abit on the ball over those that were great on the ball IMO. As I have said on a previous thread on here, I find myself turning off 90% of the football I start watching.

 

[Finney Is Back]

But thats not really a reflection of the quality of the Prem, if the Italian league was that of the 90s and so on and so on then yeh, but being able to out run the fat kid in the playground doesn't make me Linford Christie

Again, I disagree, I think it can only be a reflection of the quality of the Prem. What other league could ever have two teams in 13th and 14th place in their domestic league in the last 8 of the Europa?

The Italian League was great in the 90s because they had the money to buy lots of good players. Just as the Premier League is great now because it has the money to buy lots of good players.

 

[Finney Is Back]

For me there has been a noticeable drop off at the top end of the scale, globally, which plays to your point IMO.

I don't think football as a whole is anywhere near the same quality at the elite level of the game, its changed to athletes that can do abit on the ball over those that were great on the ball IMO. As I have said on a previous thread on here, I find myself turning off 90% of the football I start watching.

I, again, disagree. There used to be a big distinction between the footballers and the athletes. That used to make the footballers stand out as being really good.

Nowadays being a good athlete is just table stakes. Both fitness and the tactical side of the game have improved massively. I think the general level of skill on the ball has actually increased and it has had to increase because players get so much less time on the ball now compared to years ago.

 

[Grays_1890]

Again, I disagree, I think it can only be a reflection of the quality of the Prem. What other league could ever have two teams in 13th and 14th place in their domestic league in the last 8 of the Europa?

The Italian League was great in the 90s because they had the money to buy lots of good players. Just as the Premier League is great now because it has the money to buy lots of good players.

Rangers are a shocker and have managed to get where they are, not sure its a glowing endorsement of the quality overall of European football being at this stage of the comp.

We are better than many of those leagues because the drop off in them has been steep IMO, yes again there have been massive improvements in the gap closing form the mid teams in the PL to the top of the PL but the elite in the PL are not to the same level as the leagues seen IMO.

Depth improved - Absolutely
Elite level regressed - Almost certainly

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I, again, disagree. There used to be a big distinction between the footballers and the athletes. That used to make the footballers stand out as being really good.

Nowadays being a good athlete is just table stakes. Both fitness and the tactical side of the game have improved massively. I think the general level of skill on the ball has actually increased and it has had to increase because players get so much less time on the ball now compared to years ago.

The athlete side is huge now
It’s why teams at the top are physically bigger and arguably technically weaker

 

[Grays_1890]

The athlete side is huge now
It’s why teams at the top are physically bigger and arguably technically weaker

And a massive reason the gaps closed because the advances in that side have smaller margins than technical quality.

Being able to run with the ball or without it for 90 mins, carry it 60 yards etc..........great. Inability to pass it 5-10 yards consistently thereafter..............huge issue these days.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Rangers are a shocker and have managed to get where they are, not sure its a glowing endorsement of the quality overall of European football being at this stage of the comp.

We are better than many of those leagues because the drop off in them has been steep IMO, yes again there have been massive improvements in the gap closing form the mid teams in the PL to the top of the PL but the elite in the PL are not to the same level as the leagues seen IMO.

Depth improved - Absolutely
Elite level regressed - Almost certainly

Your words were that 'the PL is weak as pee water in the minute'. Yet the evidence suggests otherwise (highest UEFA coefficient, most clubs still in Europe and clubs as low as 9th in the Champs League last 8 and 13th and 14th in the Europa league last 8).

If the PL really was as "weak as pee water" then there is no way that bottom half clubs would still be in European competition.

I also disagree that the elite level has regressed. It isn't that there has been regression at the top end, it is that the English clubs outside of the Champions League are getting better and better, mainly because they are now able to afford really good players from all over the world, ones that all but the really big 15 or so clubs across Europe cannot afford and that makes it much harder for the elite level clubs to win every game. The elite isn't regressing, the non elite is improving IMO.

 

[Finney Is Back]

And a massive reason the gaps closed because the advances in that side have smaller margins than technical quality.

Being able to run with the ball or without it for 90 mins, carry it 60 yards etc..........great. Inability to pass it 5-10 yards consistently thereafter..............huge issue these days.

No real change there IMO, in fact I'd say that years ago there used to be a whole bunch of players in teams who had very little skill, they could even get as far as playing for England. Nowadays you can't make it in the game without having good ability on the ball. And having good ability on the ball is even more important when getting far less time on the ball as is the case now.

 

[Grays_1890]

Your words were that 'the PL is weak as pee water in the minute'. Yet the evidence suggests otherwise (highest UEFA coefficient, most clubs still in Europe and clubs as low as 9th in the Champs League last 8 and 13th and 14th in the Europa league last 8).

If the PL really was as weak as pee water then there is no way that bottom half clubs would still be in European competition.

I also disagree that the elite level has regressed. It isn't that there has been regression at the top end, it is that the English clubs outside of the Champions League are getting better and better, mainly because they are now able to afford really good players from all over the world, ones that all but the really big 15 or so clubs across Europe cannot afford and that makes it much harder for the elite level clubs to win every game. The elite isn't regressing, the non elite is improving IMO.

I don't think the Elite PL teams are as good as they were, I don't think the depth of that ELITE and I mean top top level clubs is as it was. Can't be any clearer than that opinion, you might not agree with it and thats fine but comparing it to a tremendously weak and well documented weak and almost bankrupt European set up doesn't change that view at all, if anything it goes a fair way to endorse my views TBH.

And as I keep saying, the mid clubs have improved and the "depth" therefore may have improved, but the top clubs are regressing IMO

The drop off European wide is staggering

 

[Lilbaz]

Your words were that 'the PL is weak as pee water in the minute'. Yet the evidence suggests otherwise (highest UEFA coefficient, most clubs still in Europe and clubs as low as 9th in the Champs League last 8 and 13th and 14th in the Europa league last 8).

If the PL really was as "weak as pee water" then there is no way that bottom half clubs would still be in European competition.

I also disagree that the elite level has regressed. It isn't that there has been regression at the top end, it is that the English clubs outside of the Champions League are getting better and better, mainly because they are now able to afford really good players from all over the world, ones that all but the really big 15 or so clubs across Europe cannot afford and that makes it much harder for the elite level clubs to win every game. The elite isn't regressing, the non elite is improving IMO.

The difference this season is there are no teams dropping from cl to el.