Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Muttley]

And would have the final of the ref had done his job

The ref we should be most mad with is Anthony Taylor. He cost us an FA Cup Final at our height in the Poch area. Shocking performance against Jose's Utd.

 

[Mikey10]

If it wasn’t for the cheating oil/gas clubs we’d have won a league and cup in the last decade.

And if my auntie had b ollocks…

 

[Lilbaz]

And if my auntie had b ollocks…

She'd be your dad. We know.

 

[Mcfee]

The ref we should be most mad with is Anthony Taylor. He cost us an FA Cup Final at our height in the Poch area. Shocking performance against Jose's Utd.

Revisionism at its best (or worst). How did he cost us? We were totally clueless for the whole second half is what I remember. Nobody to blame but ourselves. It was the turning point of the Poch era imo.

 

[Muttley]

Revisionism at its best (or worst). How did he cost us? We were totally clueless for the whole second half is what I remember. Nobody to blame but ourselves. It was the turning point of the Poch era imo.

Because we should have been playing against 10 men. The Antonio Valencia tackle in the first half was a leg breaker and was a straight red card offence. Taylor didn't even consider a yellow and didn't even book the player until deep into the second half from memory. It was total Utd bias as always.

You are right about our general performance though. I remember Jose targeting the weak Trippier, and obviously Mousa getting mugged for the goal. I think Dier hit the upright late in the game as well.

None of that really matters if Taylor is applying the laws of the game. Other way round, Spurs would have got the red card.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen a ref blatantly ignore the laws of the game and change the course of history. Even England would have won the Euro 20 if the ref had dealt with Chielini appropriately for his assault on Saka. I was in Moscow watching that idiot of a ref blatantly ignore stonewall yellows on Vida, Lovren and Brozovic. Croatia don't win that game in the manner they did if the ref is following the laws of the game. In think France would have battered us though as they were the rightful winners.

 

[thfcsteff]

My answers to 'who sacked 'im' below...

There was fan pressure for Jose.... but it came much earlier and I don't think anything other than a small proportion of the fanbase wanted him sacked just before a Cup final (something that he has a proven record of excelling in).

Also, it doesn't matter whether or not there were 'obvious factors'. The statement made was that it is not the fans that have led to managers getting sacked, more often than not it’s the impatience of the club hierarchy.

@tommysvr's posts countering that seem to just prove @Jurgen the German's assertions to me?....

Cristian Stellini - obvious (so not the fans)

Agreed. He cooked his own goose.

Antonio Conte - boring, clearly had to go (so not the fans)

I think it is pretty clear that he had lost the dressing room/decided he'd had enough too. So yes, not the fans.

Nuno Espirito Santo - the most toxic environment we've seen (most of the calls were ENIC out as opposed to Nuno out.... I guess you could argue therefore that was the fans, though not exactly giving them what they want.

Desperation appt which only happened because we didn't do the Conte deal with his demands initially. Always treading water. So not the fans more than just, errr, 'not'!

Jose Mourinho - timing is up for debate, but certainly wasn't without pressure (agreed, so kind of the fans but not at the point he actually went?

A prick. I am biased. Hated him, swallowed enormous amounts of Spurs pride to, ah, back him, but again he lost the dressing room IMO, so not fans.

Mauricio Pochettino - many thought it was time for change (so not the fans)

Define 'many'...sadly I think loads of fans 'casually' waxed on that it 'might be time for a change' and when Levy decided he could get his long-obsession/'winner' then it was easier for him. I think the fans absolutely made it easier to sack him (for the record, wrong move IMO).

Tim Sherwood - almost universally disliked (again, not the fans)

Fans and everyone, right?!

Andre Villas-Boas - out of his depth, last game an awful 5-0 loss at home to Liverpool (so not the fans, though I was thrilled to get rid of that charlitan)

Again, he blew up his own house/went a bit weird. Not really fans I agree.

Harry Redknapp - loved for most of it but disliked and seen as below Spurs by many (so not the fans)

Come on! Many I know saw his shameless behaviour that season as abhorrent. Levy had only ever seen him as a quick-fix and was delighted he had a chance to boot him IMO when he pumped for a new deal once he didn't get the England job right after a Levy death (his mum, no?)

Juande Ramos - clearly had to go (so not the fans)

Lost 52 goals in one summer in Keane and Berba, with Frazier Campbell the answer. No support from chairman.

Martin Jol - poorly handled, but many thought we'd outgrown him (so not the fans)

Agreed not the fans

Glenn Hoddle - initial promise that went nowhere (so not the fans)

Agreed not the fans

George Graham - never wanted, never liked (definitely the fans)

100% fans, the prick should NEVER have been in charge of our parish!!!!!

 

[Lemonade Money]

Jol was a million percent the fans. For months and months the stands, and pubs, and online, were full of 'he's taken us as far as he can'. Levy read the room.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Jol was a million percent the fans. For months and months the stands, and pubs, and online, were full of 'he's taken us as far as he can'. Levy read the room.

And there in lies the rub
You thought it was fans
Some don’t
Levy ultimately decided
Fans have a huge impact even if they don’t realise it

 

[Jordinho]

And there in lies the rub
You thought it was fans
Some don’t
Levy ultimately decided
Fans have a huge impact even if they don’t realise it

Levy is always the one that does the actual sacking, although the decision comes from the board. To pretend that the discontent among the fanbase doesn't play a part is somewhat disingenuous. None of them got sacked without weeks and months of fans wanting them gone first.

 

[Bishop]

Levy is always the one that does the actual sacking, although the decision comes from the board. To pretend that the discontent among the fanbase doesn't play a part is somewhat disingenuous. None of them got sacked without weeks and months of fans wanting them gone first.

There is always a subset of fans who think the incumbent manager should be let go so that's a little besides the point. The argument is was there a groundswell of measurable discontent amongst the fan base that led Levy to make those firing decisions at the time and was he led by that and in the majority of cases in my opinion that was not the case.

 

[tommysvr]

There is always a subset of fans who think the incumbent manager should be let go so that's a little besides the point. The argument is was there a groundswell of measurable discontent amongst the fan base that led Levy to make those firing decisions at the time and was he led by that and in the majority of cases in my opinion that was not the case.

That was not the argument. It’s been lost since I posted. The argument was that there was pressure from the fans for all of those managers. No manager was sacked without at least some section of the fan base being unhappy.

 

[Bishop]

That was not the argument. It’s been lost since I posted. The argument was that there was pressure from the fans for all of those managers. No manager was sacked without at least some section of the fan base being unhappy.

There's always going to be a section of the fan base that's unhappy. No manager at Tottenham or probably any club is going to have 100% approval ratings 100% of the time.

This discussion only makes sense if there was a feeling for the majority or a very vocal large minority asking for a specific managers head.

 

[Jordinho]

There is always a subset of fans who think the incumbent manager should be let go so that's a little besides the point. The argument is was there a groundswell of measurable discontent amongst the fan base that led Levy to make those firing decisions at the time and was he led by that and in the majority of cases in my opinion that was not the case.

I'd say the discontent was considerable at the point of all sackings. It might not be what triggered it, but it would have played a part.

 

[tommysvr]

There's always going to be a section of the fan base that's unhappy. No manager at Tottenham or probably any club is going to have 100% approval ratings 100% of the time.

This discussion only makes sense if there was a feeling for the majority or a very vocal large minority asking for a specific managers head.

I mean a not insignificant part of the fan base. I was going to say that but I thought it would be obvious tbh

 

[billyiddo]

If a manager loses his job, usually it's because they are doing a bad job at the time and so there will be a level of discontent within the fanbase. I doubt any chairman would base his decision to sack the manager off of that feeling.

 

[Lilbaz]

Poor form cost managers their jobs.

No manager has been sacked while the form of the team has been good.

There would have obviously been other reasons. That may have added to the decision. But that's what it boiled down to.

 

[afsoc4life]

Poor form cost managers their jobs.

No manager has been sacked while the form of the team has been good.

There would have obviously been other reasons. That may have added to the decision. But that's what it boiled down to.

You mean club football? Nigeria fired Philip Troussier before the 1998 World Cup. Why? Nigeria was cruising through the qualification stages. The NFA wanted a 'better manager'. They went for Bora Milutinović due to his experience of already managing three different nations in a World Cup at that time. What a disgusting decision.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I'd say the discontent was considerable at the point of all sackings. It might not be what triggered it, but it would have played a part.

It’s not like Levy hasn’t sacked managers in the past when there has fairly minimal/non-existent fan pressure. Let me put it this way, if Ange finished 8th for two seasons running like Arteta did and we bottled 4th place to Arsenal in the following season, do you really think Levy would stick by Ange like Arsenal did with Arteta?

 

[Lilbaz]

It’s not like Levy hasn’t sacked managers in the past when there has fairly minimal/non-existent fan pressure. Let me put it this way, if Ange finished 8th for two seasons running like Arteta did and we bottled 4th place to Arsenal in the following season, do you really think Levy would stick by Ange like Arsenal did with Arteta?

There were a lot of arsenal fans that wanted arteta sacked. It worked out for them that he wasn't. But there was no guarantee it would.

Levy wouldn't take that risk.

 

[harr1984]

Poor form cost managers their jobs.

No manager has been sacked while the form of the team has been good.

There would have obviously been other reasons. That may have added to the decision. But that's what it boiled down to.

There are plenty of managers who are sacked despite doing well. Clubs often think a certain manager will take them further, rightly or wrongly. Southampton sacking the guy (I want to say Adkins?) for Poch is one such example. O'Neil at Bournemouth another one who did well but they got rid of him because Iraola become available....