We are talking of spurs under levy.
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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo
- Thread starter tommysvr
- Start date
We are talking of spurs under levy.
I feel like you really needed to get that off your chest
....
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
i agree largely with this whilst also believing Levy makes the same choices for different reasons along that time frame.
There is a check in on fan mood though that tips scales IMO and although not true of Jol would be true of say Jose where moans and groans were loud. I don't think it's the deciding factor though
Muttley
Ben Thatcher
In my opinion, Levy's lack of football DNA has always been the root cause of our manager woes. It starts with the board of directors that Levy put in place over a numbers of years. They are too like him. If you have too many of the same type and that is a bad formula when you're building a successful leadership group. I always felt it was a shame that Trevor Birch come and went so quickly. It felt like we finally had someone with true football DNA with a load of people and business skill. Perfect fit for football operations and to move Levy away from the centre a little. Obviously, the EFL came in for Birch and he took the Chief Exec job and is still in place today. Shame, because he would have complimented Levy.
At that point in 2019, I thought Levy had finally realised that you can still be a great leader by building the right people around you, protecting your company from your own weaknesses by empowering them. It took him another 5 years to get there with Scott Munn, but I think Paratici has been operating as Levy's football brain for some of that time.
The other thing wrong has been the expectations that Levy set with his team. If he had operated with a squad strategy and policy we wouldn't keep getting ourselves in a mess. An example would have been Redknapp. No manager should start every summer with 35 senior players in a world where you only register 25. The Steven Pienaar fiasco was typical Reknapp. Ditto Kyle Naughton who was boustill being loaned at 24. Pavlychencko and Bentley weren't wanted but still remained for years after and we received no real transfer value for them. It was just massively naive from Levy to have such a sub-optimal P&L and go thourgh these cycles of stockpiling and then churning. In Redknapp's case, he even started blaming Levy for a lack of transfer budget even though he had taken salaries up by 35-40% because of his stockpiling. For me, this just proved that Levy wasn't in control of his club.
Personally, I wouldn't ever had wanted Levy anywhere near a manager recruitment process. He just doesn't have the football smarts. He is obviously one of us, a true Spurs fan, and really does try to back his managers once they're in place. Problem is, he always ends up firing them for the reasons we all know.
Since he's moved upstairs, we are seeing change though. Yet another sweep through a Levy bloated squad getting it almost to the right size. A change in transfer strategy, with a younger feel about it. Foundations in place, that even changing manager won't be anywhere near as disruptive as what we've seen in the past. Prior to that, Ange has a great opportunity to break the Spurs cycle in so many ways.
At that point in 2019, I thought Levy had finally realised that you can still be a great leader by building the right people around you, protecting your company from your own weaknesses by empowering them. It took him another 5 years to get there with Scott Munn, but I think Paratici has been operating as Levy's football brain for some of that time.
The other thing wrong has been the expectations that Levy set with his team. If he had operated with a squad strategy and policy we wouldn't keep getting ourselves in a mess. An example would have been Redknapp. No manager should start every summer with 35 senior players in a world where you only register 25. The Steven Pienaar fiasco was typical Reknapp. Ditto Kyle Naughton who was boustill being loaned at 24. Pavlychencko and Bentley weren't wanted but still remained for years after and we received no real transfer value for them. It was just massively naive from Levy to have such a sub-optimal P&L and go thourgh these cycles of stockpiling and then churning. In Redknapp's case, he even started blaming Levy for a lack of transfer budget even though he had taken salaries up by 35-40% because of his stockpiling. For me, this just proved that Levy wasn't in control of his club.
Personally, I wouldn't ever had wanted Levy anywhere near a manager recruitment process. He just doesn't have the football smarts. He is obviously one of us, a true Spurs fan, and really does try to back his managers once they're in place. Problem is, he always ends up firing them for the reasons we all know.
Since he's moved upstairs, we are seeing change though. Yet another sweep through a Levy bloated squad getting it almost to the right size. A change in transfer strategy, with a younger feel about it. Foundations in place, that even changing manager won't be anywhere near as disruptive as what we've seen in the past. Prior to that, Ange has a great opportunity to break the Spurs cycle in so many ways.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
I don’t doubt there were some Arsenal fans who wanted him gone but the club didnt pay enough attention to it clearly as they kept him.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Yeah I agree there are a multitude of reasons for why managers get sacked, but this all came about because the OP suggested the fans were starting to turn and it would lead to Ange being canned when he’s worried about the wrong people, should worry more about the club hierarchy rather than the fans.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Yeh agree TBH, just thought I would add my take on the wider, but yeh.
To go a step further, I do think we are in the same place as when Arsenal placed Arteta now though, the club and layers likely know the need for the overhaul and longer term vision. The squads now lean (likely to attract investors via the balance sheet) and Ange is doing alot of work off the pitch too in implementing standards, I think he gets time regardless of fans. Levy and his antics aside no one should be listening to YT artists fudging stats to say Ange should be sacked.
I hope you're right. Since 1986 we have had 30 odd managers, not far off one a year! Compare that to the Goons who have had 10 in the same period. Of course that's not the only reason for success but giving managers some proper time can certainly be of benefit. Saving an absolute disaster, it would be nice to actually go long term with a manager....
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Yeh I agree, for better or worse, there has to be a time we give someone the time knowing its going to either be growing pains at start or there will be a lull somewhere and it not be cause of panic. I know its not likely modern, but I would love Ange here for 4 years and see what he can do in that time and reflect back, rather than knee jerk every defeat (been guilty of that myself). I have a longing to have something to cling onto beyond just Spurs and I hope Ange gives us that
Kandi1977
Garth Crooks
Some things I want to address here.
And one thing he hasn't got since he left Spurs, is time, which in my view is the most important. Unless you get very lucky with the recruitment, you need time to succeed.
In the case of Ange, I want him at least an additional season after this one, regardless of how we do this year. There's so much young talent here, the potential is very exciting, and he (and anyone else) should be given time to develop this team.
So were Liverpool, Arsenal, Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea...
Resources, yes, but one can argue how much influence he had. At least in the case of chelsea, it seems the modus operandi is "we bring in players, you coach them."
And one thing he hasn't got since he left Spurs, is time, which in my view is the most important. Unless you get very lucky with the recruitment, you need time to succeed.
In the case of Ange, I want him at least an additional season after this one, regardless of how we do this year. There's so much young talent here, the potential is very exciting, and he (and anyone else) should be given time to develop this team.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
I don't like giving Chelsea props for much, I think some do it on here to prove points and add negativity towards us (I won't say who), but he had them in a great area by end of last season IMO.
Thankfully Chels did what they have done recently and decided to self harm.
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
Why do you think Jol was sacked?
Muttley
Ben Thatcher
Letting Hoddles Son have too much ketchup?
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Wasn't fan noise which is the point I was making. I think Jols sacking was Levys true low point BTW, I think its the first time Levy sacked someone at the first sight of abit of knee, which made him arrogant and he pulled the trigger on a twitchy start.
Didn't jol drive up to Saudi Sportswashing Machine for an interview?
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
I thought you might know something, but just your opinion?
Not quite how I remember it. We'd finished the previous season poorly and we really should have parted company that summer, rather than waste a transfer window. Same with Poch really. I'm more annoyed with Levy for waiting too long on those occasions than anything else actually. We haven't properly recovered from Poch's last window until now through a combination of unforeseen circumstances.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Na not at all mate, absolutely opinion there
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Counter is that maybe both deserved longer with said players but then that's the illusion with hiring and firing, no one knows truely.
BTW I'm not hammering Levy either because I think he made right calls at times and not all sackings follow the same themes despite people wanting to blame him exclusively.
Who knows anyway, it's all smoke in the wind on a forum hahaha.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
TBH mate I'm so jet lagged I can barely think straight. You may well be right