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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Grays_1890 said:
To be totally honest I haven't seen anyone say it's a forgone conclusion or allude him producing major success, especially not year one. In actual fact those who are the more optimistic including myself have actually mentioned plenty of times how they are also realistic to what would be seen as success and progress year one. Personally top 7 with a clear sign that what's being implemented is working would mark success.

One of Ange clear strengths in his communication, it's noticeable from what's available to see and literally everyone in the game that knows him talks about it in public, commenting on that and being impressed doesn't mean people hink success is guaranteed.

Being optimistic doesn't mean people are deluding themselves
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Let's me be clear I'm also optimistic, so I'm not knocking that, but there does seem to be a fanbase wide belief that Ange is going to work. That the football will be attractive etc. We'll see if it works, I'm hopeful that it will be and deep down inside I think it will be but it is at this point hopium. We still have the dogbrick defence, the keeper is an improvement but we need a bit more still imo.

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Bishop said:
Let's me be clear I'm also optimistic, so I'm not knocking that, but there does seem to be a fanbase wide belief that Ange is[/] going to work. That the football will be attractive etc. We'll see if it works, I'm hopeful that it will be and deep down inside I think it will be but it is at this point hopium. We still have the dogbrick defence, the keeper is an improvement but we need a bit more still imo.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
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Not sure if "Hopium" is yours or something you've heard but that is a brilliant portmanteau that I've not heard before.
 
alekaras said:
This may be the most important thing he brings to the dressing room. Something that no other manager we were looking at has. We have good players. We just need them to feel confident and be allowed to express themselves. And feel that the manager cares about them and has their back, rather than throw them under the bus to save his own hide.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1681783848575664128
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There will be those that pour cold water on it, but you can't read that and think anything but positive about things, especially given what we clearly needed which seems to have been lost which is any kind of moral. Its all pointing in a positive direction
 
Bishop said:
Let's me be clear I'm also optimistic, so I'm not knocking that, but there does seem to be a fanbase wide belief that Ange is going to work. That the football will be attractive etc. We'll see if it works, I'm hopeful that it will be and deep down inside I think it will be but it is at this point hopium. We still have the dogbrick defence, the keeper is an improvement but we need a bit more still imo.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
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Think I'm sorta where you are. I'm behind Ange, 100% and I hope he succeeds. But, honestly, I think he'll be out of his depth and will be under pressure by Christmas. The big thing he's missing is a track record at a comparable level so the massive optimism I'm seeing from fans that everything he's doing and saying is a sign that he'll succeed where Jose and Conte failed...I don't buy it.

I hope I'm wrong and will eat humble pie by the truckload if I am. I'm just putting it out there now so I'm not Captain Hindsight if it does go the way I suspect.

On the bright side, I didn't want BMJ, Harry or Poch either so the likelihood of me being wrong is high...
 
DeanoAustin said:
Think I'm sorta where you are. I'm behind Ange, 100% and I hope he succeeds. But, honestly, I think he'll be out of his depth and will be under pressure by Christmas. The big thing he's missing is a track record at a comparable level so the massive optimism I'm seeing from fans that everything he's doing and saying is a sign that he'll succeed where Jose and Conte failed...I don't buy it.

I hope I'm wrong and will eat humble pie by the truckload if I am. I'm just putting it out there now so I'm not Captain Hindsight if it does go the way I suspect.

On the bright side, I didn't want BMJ, Harry or Poch either so the likelihood of me being wrong is high...
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Same for me too. We still have a car crash of a back four and need to shift the likes of Sanchez, Dier and Rodon. We need to replace them with at least two quality CB’s. I’m hoping for a top 4 challenge and finally winning something but in reality I’m expecting another 6th-8th place finish, unless our forwards do something extraordinary and carry us like they did in 21/22. Im just looking forward to playing some attractive, attacking football again more than anything. The last few years have been a slog and I feel like I’m going to games out of habit then enjoyment.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Think I'm sorta where you are. I'm behind Ange, 100% and I hope he succeeds. But, honestly, I think he'll be out of his depth and will be under pressure by Christmas. The big thing he's missing is a track record at a comparable level so the massive optimism I'm seeing from fans that everything he's doing and saying is a sign that he'll succeed where Jose and Conte failed...I don't buy it.

I hope I'm wrong and will eat humble pie by the truckload if I am. I'm just putting it out there now so I'm not Captain Hindsight if it does go the way I suspect.

On the bright side, I didn't want BMJ, Harry or Poch either so the likelihood of me being wrong is high...
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I can only speak for myself, I don't think its going to be easy, I certainly don't think that him being a nice guy will be a reason that he is guaranteed success, but equally I don't think coming in without the PL knowledge is a full proof reason for failure, I think it might actually work in his favour. My comparisons with Jose and Conte is purely that in our situation we can't afford to have so many players seemingly marginalised, we are not Juve or Chelsea, if you use the example of Bissouma he is a 40/50m player who we need to get a tune out of for the benefit of the club, I don't think you get that buy murdering every aspect of the club and playing staff in the press, so from that aspect It seems like a breath of fresh air to have some positive noises coming out to the level they are whilst also being realistic that its very early days.

As a club I think we all need to be realistic on what would be success year one, I would say that as one of the more optimistic guys for Ange I would take top 7 and signs that that what he is trying to achieve can move forward, I don't think those that are behind him with be the problem in that respect, I think its those (not you BTW) that are constantly down on the club that will have to adjust their expectations and not be on his back for not being within the up reaches of the league. Thats going to be key for me, expectation, I am willing to take a year of growth and maybe some pain in order to move forward
 
DeanoAustin said:
Think I'm sorta where you are. I'm behind Ange, 100% and I hope he succeeds. But, honestly, I think he'll be out of his depth and will be under pressure by Christmas. The big thing he's missing is a track record at a comparable level so the massive optimism I'm seeing from fans that everything he's doing and saying is a sign that he'll succeed where Jose and Conte failed...I don't buy it.

I hope I'm wrong and will eat humble pie by the truckload if I am. I'm just putting it out there now so I'm not Captain Hindsight if it does go the way I suspect.

On the bright side, I didn't want BMJ, Harry or Poch either so the likelihood of me being wrong is high...
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Like with any signing, there's no guarantees here. For me personally, even if the results don't always come our way, as long as I see that the players are putting in their maximum effort and trying to entertain us while being professionals and also trying to win each match, I'll be content. Historically, his teams have needed a little time to get going. He also seems to have a long-term view of management, the example being that he'll develop young players to try to play the right way, even if it's risky and they're a CB and mistakes can be costly. I don't know how much he rotates but it can't be worse than Conte, not that we need as much rotation this season compared to last.
The Christmas deadline (basically half a year) is your call ultimately. I don't think it's unrealistic that Ange has the team playing alright by then, but I want to give him at least a year to bed in his mentality and get the players in or out that he wants.

Every time this guy speaks, he seems to say the right thing, and I actually think our mentality and overall mental resilience is almost as important as the tactics themselves. I don't feel some creeping doubt in the back of my mind like I did with Nuno. It's possible it all doesn't work out but I think Ange is the kind of person that has the humility to know when he's made the wrong decisions and hopefully is the type of person that will grow stronger from it.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I can only speak for myself, I don't think its going to be easy, I certainly don't think that him being a nice guy will be a reason that he is guaranteed success, but equally I don't think coming in without the PL knowledge is a full proof reason for failure, I think it might actually work in his favour. My comparisons with Jose and Conte is purely that in our situation we can't afford to have so many players seemingly marginalised, we are not Juve or Chelsea, if you use the example of Bissouma he is a 40/50m player who we need to get a tune out of for the benefit of the club, I don't think you get that buy murdering every aspect of the club and playing staff in the press, so from that aspect It seems like a breath of fresh air to have some positive noises coming out to the level they are whilst also being realistic that its very early days.

As a club I think we all need to be realistic on what would be success year one, I would say that as one of the more optimistic guys for Ange I would take top 7 and signs that that what he is trying to achieve can move forward, I don't think those that are behind him with be the problem in that respect, I think its those (not you BTW) that are constantly down on the club that will have to adjust their expectations and not be on his back for not being within the up reaches of the league. Thats going to be key for me, expectation, I am willing to take a year of growth and maybe some pain in order to move forward
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Agree with that. Arsenal finished 8th twice with Arteta and they stuck by him because they could see things were going the right direction even though they bottled 4th to us. We’re not Chelsea, we can’t and shouldn’t expect top 4 every year and neither should Levy. I’ve seen people say we should be looking to get top 4 which is unrealistic IMO.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I can only speak for myself, I don't think its going to be easy, I certainly don't think that him being a nice guy will be a reason that he is guaranteed success, but equally I don't think coming in without the PL knowledge is a full proof reason for failure, I think it might actually work in his favour. My comparisons with Jose and Conte is purely that in our situation we can't afford to have so many players seemingly marginalised, we are not Juve or Chelsea, if you use the example of Bissouma he is a 40/50m player who we need to get a tune out of for the benefit of the club, I don't think you get that buy murdering every aspect of the club and playing staff in the press, so from that aspect It seems like a breath of fresh air to have some positive noises coming out to the level they are whilst also being realistic that its very early days.

As a club I think we all need to be realistic on what would be success year one, I would say that as one of the more optimistic guys for Ange I would take top 7 and signs that that what he is trying to achieve can move forward, I don't think those that are behind him with be the problem in that respect, I think its those (not you BTW) that are constantly down on the club that will have to adjust their expectations and not be on his back for not being within the up reaches of the league. Thats going to be key for me, expectation, I am willing to take a year of growth and maybe some pain in order to move forward
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I think that's fair comment. For me, he finishes top 8 (or even 10) playing good football in season 1 and I'm reasonably happy.

You're also right, a record doesn't guarantee anything. But I can't help look at two winners like Mourinho and Conte and they failed here. Ultimately, the job is about winning games and those lads are much better at it than Ange based on history. However, if he is successful, it wouldn't be the first time that logic was defied by football.

My concern is how we're gonna defend. Attacking football is great but it can also lead to embarrassment and there's a bigger chance of that happening here than anywhere else he's been. If he's gonna perish on any rock, that'll be it.

Look at me, looking for attacking football but also wanting a rock-solid defence. Who said football fans were impossible to please?
 
DeanoAustin said:
I think that's fair comment. For me, he finishes top 8 (or even 10) playing good football in season 1 and I'm reasonably happy.

You're also right, a record doesn't guarantee anything. But I can't help look at two winners like Mourinho and Conte and they failed here. Ultimately, the job is about winning games and those lads are much better at it than Ange based on history. However, if he is successful, it wouldn't be the first time that logic was defied by football.

My concern is how we're gonna defend. Attacking football is great but it can also lead to embarrassment and there's a bigger chance of that happening here than anywhere else he's been. If he's gonna perish on any rock, that'll be it.

Look at me, looking for attacking football but also wanting a rock-solid defence. Who said football fans were impossible to please?
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Hahaha I can't honestly post here and say I didn't watch the game the other day and think "good GHod this defence is going to kill us" but then I tempered that with hope that its game one, I honestly believe new bodies will still come in, I think some will also leave and things should, should improve. Equally you could have made a real argument that we could have whalloped the mockneys 7/8 zip such was the dominance haha

But what I will say, is that for better or worse, I have not seen a total change in style implemented or being able to see what the manager wants to achieve as quickly as this in a very long time. For all Jose and Conte success which can't be denied at all, it was near on impossible to see what either wanted to do at times let alone see what was being worked on (You could with Conte more than Jose).

@Jurgen the German makes the other correct point that if the statements that the club made about being a rebuild, understanding a need to align with youth etc are genuine then alot of this will come down to Levy accepting that year one does not look like CL football.

I think its going to be a really interesting summer
 
papaspur said:
Like with any signing, there's no guarantees here. For me personally, even if the results don't always come our way, as long as I see that the players are putting in their maximum effort and trying to entertain us while being professionals and also trying to win each match, I'll be content. Historically, his teams have needed a little time to get going. He also seems to have a long-term view of management, the example being that he'll develop young players to try to play the right way, even if it's risky and they're a CB and mistakes can be costly. I don't know how much he rotates but it can't be worse than Conte, not that we need as much rotation this season compared to last.
The Christmas deadline (basically half a year) is your call ultimately. I don't think it's unrealistic that Ange has the team playing alright by then, but I want to give him at least a year to bed in his mentality and get the players in or out that he wants.

Every time this guy speaks, he seems to say the right thing, and I actually think our mentality and overall mental resilience is almost as important as the tactics themselves. I don't feel some creeping doubt in the back of my mind like I did with Nuno. It's possible it all doesn't work out but I think Ange is the kind of person that has the humility to know when he's made the wrong decisions and hopefully is the type of person that will grow stronger from it.
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To be clear, I'm not going to judge him after 6 months. For me, that'd be lunacy. Unfortunately, like most clubs, we have our share of lunatics that will and they'll be the ones putting him under pressure if things don't work out. See Nuno.

I agree with much of what you've said there but it could get ugly if we're conceding goals and defenders are making mistakes. Look at how Royal and Sanchez were treated last year. Many Spurs fans won't just shrug their shoulders and say "Well, they're putting in effort and we're playing attacking football. So be it." And that sort of atmosphere could have a killer impact on our lads. It's hard to take risks in that environment.

I'd give Ange a year or two personally unless we're in a relegation dogfight. He has us playing well and in the top half in year one and that'd be just about acceptable for me.
 
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