Vincent Janssen

[thfcsteff]

He is actually like shearer from what i saw of him last year and on the random highlight videos

But bizzarrely for me is acting as a hold up player akin to Andy Carroll

What I don't get is why we play the perfect balls that would work for him when he is taken off... that cross for Davies was exactly what Jansenn feeds off IMO

I also think Poch got it massively wrong today playing a defensive formation against a really poor side. We played 3 centre backs and could have got away with 1!!!

Agreed, but the critical difference was Dele, whose superior movement behind Son freed up the extra space. I felt sorry for Janssen that he had to toil without a Dele-like option in behind (if Son was that, then it did not work)...he is certainly trapped between being a hold-up guy and a striker who looks to attack the situation. What I don't know is how his confidence is behind the scenes; that will determine what will happen with him.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Agreed, but the critical difference was Dele, whose superior movement behind Son freed up the extra space. I felt sorry for Janssen that he had to toil without a Dele-like option in behind (if Son was that, then it did not work)...he is certainly trapped between being a hold-up guy and a striker who looks to attack the situation. What I don't know is how his confidence is behind the scenes; that will determine what will happen with him.

But subbing him like today for me will break the player and kill his confidence

Your comments are spot on too

What we should have done was the Toby sub for dele and play 42-3-1 with Jansenn up top

 

[the dza]

He was messing up basic things today, like controlling a pass. It wasn't all the formation, he was part of the problem and was rightly subbed. Just because we want to give a player time doesn't mean we can't call a spade a spade and say he played sh1t today. He simply has to perform to a higher level than he did today and I'm glad Poch isn't one for messing about when decisions need to be made.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Thing is for Janssen he can't get a foothold on his form easily. There's too much pressure.

Kane has a game like Janssen had today - nobody is too concerned - it happens against well organised defences when the one forward is surrounded and isolated. Son or Sissoko do less than Janssen for an hour, there no media investigation...But when Janssen has a nothing game with little space or opportunity it's over scrutinised.

That point blank save in the first game of season against Everton! He was a wisker away from opening his account and winning the game. Don't know how the keeper saved it. At the time he wasn't as pressured and Poch thought Janssen was that good he was starting him. His preseason form was okay too. Somehow Poch needs to pick him up, take away the pressure, and after a few goals the pressure will ease on him.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[DubaiSpur]

He's having a bad run of form. That's not the same as not being able to deal with a bad ruin of form.

Pretty much. I wouldn't even call it a bad run of form, because that implies that he had a good spell at the club prior to this spell he's in. Truth is, he just hasn't hit the ground running. He's still showing for the ball, closing down, pressing, hustling and harrying...but it all looks a split second too fast for him at the moment.

Either way, no one should be working themselves up into a lather over him. He's got nothing to prove this season. Next season is when we can start expecting him to contribute in a truly significant way, once his feet are under the table and he's adapted to the speed of the game here.

 

[glasgowspur]

He was messing up basic things today, like controlling a pass. It wasn't all the formation, he was part of the problem and was rightly subbed. Just because we want to give a player time doesn't mean we can't call a spade a spade and say he played sh1t today. He simply has to perform to a higher level than he did today and I'm glad Poch isn't one for messing about when decisions need to be made.

That's fine call him out, but where's the call out for son, who was awful, or sissoko who went missing for huge parts of the game.
And don't say but they scored and assisted, Janssen was getting pelters after 15 mins.

 

[Benny_Lad]

That's fine call him out, but where's the call out for son, who was awful, or sissoko who went missing for huge parts of the game.
And don't say but they scored and assisted, Janssen was getting pelters after 15 mins.

The problem for me, and the big difference, is that you can still see that Son and Sissoko have the tools. Even if they were performing below par, you know they are still up to the pace of the game and in a moment are capable of something better (which both showed).

VJ's problem, which I have highlighted previously on this thread, is that we haven't actually seen evidence of the tools. So whilst some wait for the form to arrive, others (including me) are questioning whether the skill set is actually there for the Prem. Someone above said everything seems to be happening a little bit too quickly for him, that is spot on for me.

The question is - can this be improved or is it just the way it is?

I stand by what I have said previously - for a back up striker you need someone who is instantly up with the pace when called upon. Like Defoe or maybe Saido.

I think VJ is the antithesis of this and looks more like a player that will benefit from a long run of games. He's just not going to get this imo, whether that be season 1, season 2 or season 3.

 

[Spursman]

I think it would be best to send him out on loan if we can get someone else in. If Kane gets injured long term it could be a major problem

 

[braineclipse]

The problem for me, and the big difference, is that you can still see that Son and Sissoko have the tools. Even if they were performing below par, you know they are still up to the pace of the game and in a moment are capable of something better (which both showed).

VJ's problem, which I have highlighted previously on this thread, is that we haven't actually seen evidence of the tools. So whilst some wait for the form to arrive, others (including me) are questioning whether the skill set is actually there for the Prem. Someone above said everything seems to be happening a little bit too quickly for him, that is spot on for me.

The question is - can this be improved or is it just the way it is?

I stand by what I have said previously - for a back up striker you need someone who is instantly up with the pace when called upon. Like Defoe or maybe Saido.

I think VJ is the antithesis of this and looks more like a player that will benefit from a long run of games. He's just not going to get this imo, whether that be season 1, season 2 or season 3.

When have Defoe or Berahino been good backup strikers for anyone?

Perhaps when Janssen is well settled in, used to the club and league he will be perfectly fine doing that. As it is now people haven't seen him anywhere near form and are giving up on him.

 

[Robspur12]

That's fine call him out, but where's the call out for son, who was awasul, or sissoko who went missing for huge parts of the game.
And don't say but they scored and assisted, Janssen was getting pelters after 15 mins.

BBC called Son as their MOM! Guess Stop! Hammer time. Comparing him to other players is pointless. Both Son and sissoko have shown they can affect games significantly. Sadly Janssen does not look like he can. In fact he looks like the weak link. Here's a thing, in the few games he played last season Clinton Njie looked more dangerous, yet still was moved on, so unless Janssen improves drastically I can see the same fate for him unfortunately.

 

[Ade's folks are ok really]

He was poor today, there is no denying it, but there were some mitigating circumstances which posters have already commented on.

I was watching his movement off the ball for a while and he is making some good runs, looking for through balls but none were forthcoming today. The guys playing behind him today did not play a ball between the defenders all game. So he did come short to mix it up and get a touch every now and then but this didn't really help our game for the first 60mins or so. Although we looked better when he was off, it was the formation change that altered the pattern of the game more than subs IMO.

This!!

I watched him closely from East Stand yesterday and there were times when his movement was very sharp. He was off into the space the moment Winks, Son or Dier received the ball. Burt sadly for him those players were very slow to get their heads up - typical of the tempo of the whole team tbh - and as such, Janssen was either ignored, offside, or the incisive moment had passed. One moment in first half in particular with Son would've given Vinny a great chance, but he failed to thread a simple ball through the back line. Davies also pulled a ball back behind the Villa defence rather than between them and GK where VJ was lurking. Is this bad positional play on his part? Mis-communication? Bad pass from Davies? Or just unfortunate? You could see the frustration on his face, playing in a team that had our usual energy and tempo i'm certain would've made a huge difference.

As you noted, he then came out wide or short to get on the ball, so there are signs of desire, but there was no Alli to replace him in the box, and Son and Sissoko certainly weren't in there to help out.

So all in all the lad is almost in a no-win situation right now.

I think Poch really missed a trick with the line up yesterday. Resting players is one thing, but we had no creativity from midfield at all. Son and Sissoko don't have that cleverness within them to unleash a telling pass that fools the opposition. We played too many searching long balls from CB or Winks/Dier, most of them largely overhit or pushed Janssen to the corners. Villa's deep defence didn't help, but that again is something for Poch to recognise.

Janssen would've benefitted hugely from Eriksen or Alli in the hole instead of Son / Sissoko. I really felt for the guy today.

 

[Robspur12]

Pretty much. I wouldn't even call it a bad run of form, because that implies that he had a good spell at the club prior to this spell he's in. Truth is, he just hasn't hit the ground running. He's still showing for the ball, closing down, pressing, hustling and harrying...but it all looks a split second too fast for him at the moment.

Either way, no one should be working themselves up into a lather over him. He's got nothing to prove this season. Next season is when we can start expecting him to contribute in a truly significant way, once his feet are under the table and he's adapted to the speed of the game here.

I agree to a certain extent but that is an idealistic view and not the experience of other players under poch who has shown himself to be quite ruthless. Fazio, Stambouli, and Njie failed to make a mark and were moved on quickly. Granted Njie might come back but Fazio's performances in defence were better than Janssen has been as a striker so far. He will be given a chance only if he can demonstrate he is worth that chance. He hasn't shown that with his performances yet imo. In any case there is an argument why should he be afforded until next season to show he can do it? He was signed for relatively big money to cover Kane this season.

 

[Baleforce]

15 games

 

[Benny_Lad]

When have Defoe or Berahino been good backup strikers for anyone?

Perhaps when Janssen is well settled in, used to the club and league he will be perfectly fine doing that. As it is now people haven't seen him anywhere near form and are giving up on him.

Missed point I think. Looking at his attributes I don't see where his run of games is gonna come for him to sharpen up and improve. To suggest Defoe is/wouldn't be/or hasn't been a good impact player from the bench is either naive or ignorant. I'm sure you understood my point about these type of strikers maintaining their sharpness for when called upon for short periods of play. I don't see that with VJ.

Can I ask - how and when do you see him getting well settled in, and getting used to the league? I don't dispute this could happen if he was 1st choice somewhere, but I now see his game time being very limited - so how does he develop?

 

[Benny_Lad]

This!!

I watched him closely from East Stand yesterday and there were times when his movement was very sharp. He was off into the space the moment Winks, Son or Dier received the ball. Burt sadly for him those players were very slow to get their heads up - typical of the tempo of the whole team tbh - and as such, Janssen was either ignored, offside, or the incisive moment had passed. One moment in first half in particular with Son would've given Vinny a great chance, but he failed to thread a simple ball through the back line. Davies also pulled a ball back behind the Villa defence rather than between them and GK where VJ was lurking. Is this bad positional play on his part? Mis-communication? Bad pass from Davies? Or just unfortunate? You could see the frustration on his face, playing in a team that had our usual energy and tempo i'm certain would've made a huge difference.

As you noted, he then came out wide or short to get on the ball, so there are signs of desire, but there was no Alli to replace him in the box, and Son and Sissoko certainly weren't in there to help out.

So all in all the lad is almost in a no-win situation right now.

I think Poch really missed a trick with the line up yesterday. Resting players is one thing, but we had no creativity from midfield at all. Son and Sissoko don't have that cleverness within them to unleash a telling pass that fools the opposition. We played too many searching long balls from CB or Winks/Dier, most of them largely overhit or pushed Janssen to the corners. Villa's deep defence didn't help, but that again is something for Poch to recognise.

Janssen would've benefitted hugely from Eriksen or Alli in the hole instead of Son / Sissoko. I really felt for the guy today.

He's appeared a few times this season with the above mentioned hasn't he. Has he looked much better?

 

[braineclipse]

Missed point I think. Looking at his attributes I don't see where his run of games is gonna come for him to sharpen up and improve. To suggest Defoe is/wouldn't be/or hasn't been a good impact player from the bench is either naive or ignorant. I'm sure you understood my point about these type of strikers maintaining their sharpness for when called upon for short periods of play. I don't see that with VJ.

Can I ask - how and when do you see him getting well settled in, and getting used to the league? I don't dispute this could happen if he was 1st choice somewhere, but I now see his game time being very limited - so how does he develop?

I thought one of the reasons we let Defoe leave in the first place was because he wasn't an effective backup player. I've seen nothing from Berahino to indicate that he would be particularly effective in that role.

Players can improve both from training and experience. A full pre-season with the club knowing a lot more about the club, team mates and league could possibly do him a lot of good. Himself, the coaches and Pochettino can identify areas in his game he needs to work on and, you know, work on them.

 

[90291Spur]

But subbing him like today for me will break the player and kill his confidence

Your comments are spot on too

What we should have done was the Toby sub for dele and play 42-3-1 with Jansenn up top

Isn't he coming back from a month or so of injury? Perhaps that was the agreed upon amount of match time so he doesn't get injured again? If not, then he has to be a big boy and not have his confidence knocked by being subbed.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I thought one of the reasons we let Defoe leave in the first place was because he wasn't an effective backup player. I've seen nothing from Berahino to indicate that he would be particularly effective in that role.

Players can improve both from training and experience. A full pre-season with the club knowing a lot more about the club, team mates and league could possibly do him a lot of good. Himself, the coaches and Pochettino can identify areas in his game he needs to work on and, you know, work on them.

The guys meant to be a back up striker, not a development project.

 

[billyiddo]

he's 22 - of course he's a development project

 

[glorygloryeze]

I still think VJ will come good. Hopefully when Poch says "he has to continue working hard2 he doesn't mean that literally that is all that is missing. If anything, he is working possibly too hard and not smart enough.

The dynamics of our forward play didn't help him, but i'd want him to be more selfish and stay closer to the box instead of constantly dropping deep and getting into grappling competitions with defenders.

It's a shame that Sissoko's early run was ended abruptly; i think he was aiming to lay it off for Janssen before it hit off the defender and then off him for a goal kick.

Hopefully VJ doesn't get too down; i still see lots to work with and things that will add to our attack.
Timing of him being taken off was cruel though; tbf you have to give Poch credit because he did that before away in Moscow and again in that situation we scored shortly afterwards..