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VAR: Sponsored by Chelsea

Grays_1890 said:
Let make a bet here, i bet most fan base in English football and their managers react the opposite in the future based on that example. Starting with Sarri.
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This, VAR according to the so called experts was supposed to make the game more honest and get rid of any mistakes, it has not done this and if anything it has caused more debate and bad feeling. I have been at a couple of games now where VAR has been used and the crowd feeling on those occasions was one of frustration ( about not knowing what the fudge is going on), anger at the total lack of explanation about these delays and it is going to get worse.
 
r-u-s-x said:
Its not English football fans - there have been protests in Germany over VAR, the Italians have largely turned on it and there has been loads of backlash in Spain (re Real Madrid last weekend).
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I was speaking more in general, to be honest. I think the fans need to change more than they need to be accommodated, in more than just VAR.


parklane1 said:
This, VAR according to the so called experts was supposed to make the game more honest and get rid of any mistakes, it has not done this and if anything it has caused more debate and bad feeling. I have been at a couple of games now where VAR has been used and the crowd feeling on those occasions was one of frustration ( about not knowing what the fudge is going on), anger at the total lack of explanation about these delays and it is going to get worse.
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The decision to correctly give us a penalty against Chelsea, a decision we likely wouldnt have got otherwise, is embarrassing?

The system is still clearly in development, but youve decided it cant/wont work so should be binned? Its not even "finished" yet!

Fans were a bit confused, and so got agitated, so lets forget the whole thing?

You might want to think these through a bit more mate, to be honest.

Ive already said I think communication needs improvement, and actually think showing the footage in game would keep the fans happy. Its a work in progress, so impossible to judge in totatlity now, but it has to be said things are much improved since the summer. I like to think it will improve further.

And finally, people dont like change. Its a fairly natural state for many. Truth is though, change is essential, and more often than not people adapt pretty quickly and wonder what all the fuss is about.
 
parklane1 said:
This, VAR according to the so called experts was supposed to make the game more honest and get rid of any mistakes, it has not done this and if anything it has caused more debate and bad feeling. I have been at a couple of games now where VAR has been used and the crowd feeling on those occasions was one of frustration ( about not knowing what the fudge is going on), anger at the total lack of explanation about these delays and it is going to get worse.
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that's simply not true, the stated goal is simply to reduce the number of mistakes
 
galeforce said:
that's simply not true, the stated goal is simply to reduce the number of mistakes
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Even IF that is the case ( and i am not sure it was) its not happening as their is just as much debate about the rights and wrong of the decisions that have been made. I relise you are sat firmly on the side of VAR ( and have been from the start) and that is fair enough. But for someone who has actually been in the crowd at these events ( where it has been used) its perfection and the anger building in the crowds ( about not knowing what the fudge is happening) is growing.
 
parklane1 said:
This, VAR according to the so called experts was supposed to make the game more honest and get rid of any mistakes, it has not done this and if anything it has caused more debate and bad feeling. I have been at a couple of games now where VAR has been used and the crowd feeling on those occasions was one of frustration ( about not knowing what the fudge is going on), anger at the total lack of explanation about these delays and it is going to get worse.
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Who are these experts and where did they say this? I haven't seen anyone make such a claim.

What we are seeing now is those that are dead set against VAR in any form just moaning for the sake of it. No matter what they will always find something that wasn't entirely to their liking.

Pierluigi Collina, an actual expert, said this:

“VAR doesn’t mean perfection. There could still be some wrong interpretation or even mistakes, so it’s a not a perfection that can be reached having implemented VAR.”

“In a couple of cases the final answer could have been given even earlier, but in terms of being very accurate, the VAR preferred to spend five to 10 seconds more to be very, very sure.”

The average time for a VAR decision at the World Cup was 80 seconds. With more experience and some fine tuning, like removing the on field review, they will obviously be able to bring this down. Correct decisions went from 95% to 99.3% and as has been proven many times, it can mean winning a game you might otherwise have lost thanks to the ref fudging up.
 
parklane1 said:
Even IF that is the case ( and i am not sure it was) its not happening as their is just as much debate about the rights and wrong of the decisions that have been made. I relise you are sat firmly on the side of VAR ( and have been from the start) and that is fair enough. But for someone who has actually been in the crowd at these events ( where it has been used) its perfection and the anger building in the crowds ( about not knowing what the fudge is happening) is growing.
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would you have been less frustrated had the ref not called for VAR and had a 2 min discussion with the Lino instead?
 
parklane1 said:
Even IF that is the case ( and i am not sure it was) its not happening as their is just as much debate about the rights and wrong of the decisions that have been made. I relise you are sat firmly on the side of VAR ( and have been from the start) and that is fair enough. But for someone who has actually been in the crowd at these events ( where it has been used) its perfection and the anger building in the crowds ( about not knowing what the fudge is happening) is growing.
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In this latest round of games Im yet to see any decision proven as wrong.

Im yet to see any that are even really debatable.

I have seen some poor execution, and poor communication - these arent the same as the system being broken or wrong. Its more in the real of teething issues.
 
parklane1 said:
That would help those stood in the crowd at the games to understand what is happening yes, but will it stop the debate that seems to follow VAR decisions days after they are made?
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Over time? Absolutely.

You need to put it into context. Its new, its very different, people are naturally going to scrutinise it.

This isnt specific to VAR, its the natural state of things during change.

Have you actually seen all the footage yet? Do you think the decision made was correct or not?
 
galeforce said:
would you have been less frustrated had the ref not called for VAR and had a 2 min discussion with the Lino instead?
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Apples and Pears mate, those things happen in games all the time. The point is VAR has been brought in to try and stop poor decisions and stop the frustrations and it has not done this.
 
parklane1 said:
Apples and Pears mate, those things happen in games all the time. The point is VAR has been bought in to try and stop poor decisions and stop the frustrations and it has not done this.
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why is that deemed as more acceptable, the delay is the same and the attendee's are still out of the loop?

the point is to reduce mistakes, and the stats suggest it has, accuracy has risen from around 93% to 98% across trial competitions
 
galeforce said:
thats not a stated goal of VAR either

every minutiae of football is debated for days after it happens
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Well are you now saying that VAR was NOT brought in to stop mistakes, because on several occasions this has not happened. We disagree and until VAR is not causing the problems and eruptions it obviously is causing among those who support the games it seems we always will. No big deal.
 
parklane1 said:
Well are you now saying that VAR was NOT bought in to stop mistakes, because on several occasions this has not happened. We disagree and until VAR is not causing the problems and eruptions it obviously is causing among those who support the games it seems we always will. No big deal.
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no, I'm saying it's not an intention of VAR to stop debate, it's to aid the officials in making more accurate decisions
 
galeforce said:
where do either say mistakes will be totally eliminated?
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I thought you were questioning the "make them honest" part -

there is this - so no more offside goals ever.

“It is difficult to think of the World Cup without VAR, it has been certainly a more just competition...The goal scored from an offside position is finished in football, at least in football with VAR,” Infantino added.

I think ours was onside but the ref blew up for offside so only clear and obvious mistake should have overridden it.
 
I didn't sense any frustration in the crowd where I was on Tuesday night tbh. Uncertainty, yes, as to exactly what was being reviewed - was it offside, was it whether it was a foul or were they looking at whether Kepa should be sent off? But not frustration or any annoyance that VAR had been invoked. Obviously I can't speak for the whole crowd. The jumbotron did show VAR Review and I think someone on here said it also stated 'Penalty', although I don't remember that. Communication could definitely be improved - are there any examples of better communication in those leagues where VAR is already more established?

The Rochdale game last year was farcical and the crowd was definitely frustrated and had no idea what was going on. However I'm not convinced the match officials had much idea themselves either that night.

parklane1 said:
Apples and Pears mate, those things happen in games all the time. .
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Oranges? :)
 
r-u-s-x said:
I thought you were questioning the "make them honest" part -

there is this - so no more offside goals ever.

“It is difficult to think of the World Cup without VAR, it has been certainly a more just competition...The goal scored from an offside position is finished in football, at least in football with VAR,” Infantino added.

I think ours was onside but the ref blew up for offside so only clear and obvious mistake should have overridden it.
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I think that was a stupid comment by Infantino, yes he has the admin job but he's not a trained referee

there will still be all manner of mistakes from the human part of the system, the goal Tuesday is a case in point, the VAR officials used the replays and still made a basic mistake, by the letter of the law Kane was offside

VAR doesn't need to be perfect to be a success and add value
 
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