VAR: Sponsored by Chelsea

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

THat would be nice. Didnt happen. Does it make the whole thing a bad idea?

 

[r-u-s-x]

THat would be nice. Didnt happen. Does it make the whole thing a bad idea?

I think the whole things a bad idea, many others think the whole things a bad idea - it seems split half way down the middle - I would suggest its up to those wanting the change to prove its a benefit before we make the change. We can apply this process in the PL /FA Cup going forwards so why not - whats the problem in insisting on a final version so we can adequately judge if its good or not.

 

[StephenH]

Go and see it action Columbia vs Senegal
Brilliant!

 

[parklane1]

That's wrong because experts.

Well lets assume that is correct and if it is should that not work both ways. I am sure i have read on here some saying that the arguing etc, etc has/is not worse this W/C then others.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think the whole things a bad idea, many others think the whole things a bad idea - it seems split half way down the middle - I would suggest its up to those wanting the change to prove its a benefit before we make the change. We can apply this process in the PL /FA Cup going forwards so why not - whats the problem in insisting on a final version so we can adequately judge if its good or not.

You see no benefit in having referees make more informed, and therefore more correct, decisions?

 

[scaramanga]

Well lets assume that is correct and if it is should that not work both ways. I am sure i have read on here some saying that the arguing etc, etc has/is not worse this W/C then others.

You're making the argument that VAR is bad because of more arguing. The onus is on you to provide evidence to back up that point.

 

[parklane1]

You're making the argument that VAR is bad because of more arguing. The onus is on you to provide evidence to back up that point.

I said there was more arguing etc, etc in this W/C then others i have seen, some said there was not. So from your point none of us would be right.

 

[scaramanga]

I said there was more arguing etc, etc in this W/C then others i have seen, some said there was not. So from your point none of us would be right.

You were using it as a reason why VAR is bad. The proposition was yours, therefore you need to provide the reasoning for that.

 

[r-u-s-x]

You see no benefit in having referees make more informed, and therefore more correct, decisions?

If this can be done in a way that increases the perception of fairness (burden increases if you are using VAR) and does not drastically alter the game (al la goal line tech) I may be on board. I don't think this is possible and as the majority of decisions are grey and the refs get them right anyway I don't see the need.

Football is successful, I think a lot of this is in its simplicity and universality and adding VAR will take this away.

as an aside when discussing the success, objectives of VAR are https://football-technology.fifa.com/en/media-tiles/video-assistant-referee-var/

so an obviously missed penalty call is a failure of VAR -"The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are made in conjunction with the award or non-award of a penalty kick."

 

[scaramanga]

If this can be done in a way that increases the perception of fairness (burden increases if you are using VAR) and does not drastically alter the game (al la goal line tech) I may be on board. I don't think this is possible and as the majority of decisions are grey and the refs get them right anyway I don't see the need.

Football is successful, I think a lot of this is in its simplicity and universality and adding VAR will take this away.

as an aside when discussing the success, objectives of VAR are https://football-technology.fifa.com/en/media-tiles/video-assistant-referee-var/

so an obviously missed penalty call is a failure of VAR -"The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are made in conjunction with the award or non-award of a penalty kick."

Why is the perception of fairness important to you?

People have all kinds of perceptions, rarely are they rooted in reality or objectivity.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

If this can be done in a way that increases the perception of fairness (burden increases if you are using VAR) and does not drastically alter the game (al la goal line tech) I may be on board. I don't think this is possible and as the majority of decisions are grey and the refs get them right anyway I don't see the need.

Football is successful, I think a lot of this is in its simplicity and universality and adding VAR will take this away.

as an aside when discussing the success, objectives of VAR are https://football-technology.fifa.com/en/media-tiles/video-assistant-referee-var/

so an obviously missed penalty call is a failure of VAR -"The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are made in conjunction with the award or non-award of a penalty kick."

Fair enough.

Fundamentally I dont agree, I think the standard of refereeing is inadequate and in great need of help, hence Im in favour of something that aids their decision making.

Im also yet to find any stoppages etc in any way a bother, and this is an aspect I expect to improve anyway.

And yes, it has failed at specific points this tournament - but it has also been successful at others. Given this is a test, Ill take it for now as something that should be worked upon and improved.

 

[parklane1]

You were using it as a reason why VAR is bad. The proposition was yours, therefore you need to provide the reasoning for that.

I said there was more arguing etc, etc, then previous W/C and you put up a " expert" post saying folks can not remember so that must go for those who have said there has not been surely?. Are you with all your capabilities not able to answer that.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Why is the perception of fairness important to you?

People have all kinds of perceptions, rarely are they rooted in reality or objectivity.

When VAR was being introduced one of the major points was we are arguing about referee decisions rather than talking about the games, VAR will stop this.

If it gets a decision right for one team but doesn't this means that in one measure it is fairer as a decision is rectified but the perception of fairness is less.

People will also expect that VAR be "more right" than a ref only as they have additional tools, read "more right" to include their interpretation Scouse fans want VAR to stop us getting dodgy penalties, the penalties were actually correct, VAR will not address this.

This is what I meant that the perception or burden increases if you are using VAR and you want it to be a net gain.

 

[Bullet]

the majority of decisions are grey and the refs get them right anyway I don't see the need.

So far in this World Cup there have been >>10 occasions when the ref was wrong, it went to VAR and the VAR system corrected the mistake, saving the day.

And <<10 occasions when they went to VAR and the VAR system definitely got the decision wrong.

That is all.

 

[r-u-s-x]

So far in this World Cup there have been >>10 occasions when the ref was wrong, it went to VAR and the VAR system corrected the mistake, saving the day.

And <<10 occasions when they went to VAR and the VAR system definitely got the decision wrong.

That is all.

as an aside when discussing the success, objectives of VAR are https://football-technology.fifa.com/en/media-tiles/video-assistant-referee-var/

so an obviously missed penalty call is a failure of VAR -"The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are made in conjunction with the award or non-award of a penalty kick."

VAR also includes the incidents that the guys in the truck do or do not tell the ref to check.

 

[Yiddo]

I don't think it has been anywhere near as terrible as it was for the F.A Cup. Everyone knows whats going on, it isn't taking 3 hours to find out and it has made mostly very good calls.

 

[Rorschach]

I think its been a mixed bag.

The negatives, for me, are less about exposing "VAR doesnt work" and more about exposing "Holly fudge the refs really need to improve".

There have been definitive calls made, look at the Germany game yesterday. I really dont think this would happen without it.

Of course, there have been roosters ups too. Which show refereeing really needs improving along with the tools at their disposal.

Some games have had excessive stoppages, others havent at all. As I said, mixed bag.

I think improvements to the technical process will make it much more seamless, and remove many of the complaints.

I think improvements to the referees will achieve much the same.

I was watching the Brazil game yesterday, I need to confirm but Im sure the commentary said the Refereeing team was from Italy, but the VAR ref was from Iran. Which just sounded bonkers to me, why would that be the case? In past tournaments the ref and his linesman were all from the same association and were a team, it stands to reason the VAR ref should be part of that team.

Things like this are just silly, but thankfully easily ironed out, which gives me hope for improvement on the implementation side at least.



EDIT:
Just checked
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_E#Serbia_vs_Brazil
The refereeing team was Iranian, the VAR ref Italian, so I probably misheard the commentary. Same point still stands though

I can't like this post as some might take it that I like VAR. I don't, but there are some good points in here.
I like to look at the game from a holistic level - does it improve my experience of the game and to date I would say no. But if they iron out the kinks and streamline things a bit better I'll get behind it. Hopefully the shiny new toy novelty wears off and soon.

 

[Rorschach]

So far in this World Cup there have been >>10 occasions when the ref was wrong, it went to VAR and the VAR system corrected the mistake, saving the day.

And <<10 occasions when they went to VAR and the VAR system definitely got the decision wrong.

That is all.

Those numbers are not real.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I can't like this post as some might take it that I like VAR. I don't, but there are some good points in here.
I like to look at the game from a holistic level - does it improve my experience of the game and to date I would say no. But if they iron out the kinks and streamline things a bit better I'll get behind it. Hopefully the shiny new toy novelty wears off and soon.

I agree, think there’s something to work with here, just needs some sort of clarity / consistency on those grey area decisions. Maybe something like “umpires call” in cricket, unless the VAR can conclusively prove the ref was wrong then original decision stands.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I agree, think there’s something to work with here, just needs some sort of clarity / consistency on those grey area decisions. Maybe something like “umpires call” in cricket, unless the VAR can conclusively prove the ref was wrong then original decision stands.

That's what it's supp to be now