VAR: Sponsored by Chelsea

[Baleforce]

There was enough information to show yesterday’s pen was a dive so why wasn’t it overturned? “Not VAR’s fault” I know! As I said last night the reffing needs a huge overhaul and rules need clarifying for consistency.

I've not seen that incident, I can't comment on it.

Completely agree with the bolded bit though.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I don’t think anyone has complained about using VAR for offsides have they? If they have I completely disagree with them and think they’re mental!

The stopping linemen flagging thing is stupid though. Yesterday a Brazilian was clearly 10 yards offside, but play continued for another minute or so. What if a defender had panicked and made a horrific last ditch challenge - getting sent off and injuring the player? Isn't it dangerous to keep playing when in their minds some players are easing up, while others are not? The linemen need to trust their judgement and flag when they see it's off. Isn't it also ripping off fans having these periods of clearly dead time, where anything that comes from it is going to be overruled?

 

[Baleforce]

The stopping linemen flagging thing is stupid though. Yesterday a Brazilian was clearly 10 yards offside, but play continued for another minute or so. What if a defender had panicked and made a horrific last ditch challenge - getting sent off and injuring the player? Isn't it dangerous to keep playing when in their minds some players are easing up, while others are not? The linemen need to trust their judgement and flag when they see it's off. Isn't it also ripping off fans having these periods of clearly dead time, where anything that comes from it is going to be overruled?

I agree, it is dangerous, VAR shouldn't change the way the lino's handle offsides.

If we are hand offside over to VAR do the referee assistants need flags? They are in radio contact with the ref anyway, same as the goal line officials.

 

[Aldo]

99.9% of the time, nothing is 50/50...

60% of the time, it works every time

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I also don't like how VAR has become such a spectacle in itself. It's overshadowing the actual football at times. Hopefully as time goes by, this will wear off when VAR becoms as boring and normal as throw ins.

I expect this to be the case. VAR is a complete novelty right now, of course it draws attention. As it "normalises" all the drama will dissipate.

Its why I find it odd to see so many arguing about how it is focused on now, in the negative, as if thats an absolute and will always be the case.

Why bother, its pretty easy to see unless you do not want to. If you honestly feel that the play acting, arguing etc has not increased since VAR came in then there is nothing i can say. Stop! Hammer time and the truth is there to see during this W/C, that's if you really want to.

The exact same applies to you. Except you are stating opinion as fact.

My opinion? Its always a shocker to see the theatrics at the World Cup, many of us arent used to the latin temperament in football so when we get exposed to all the South Americans etc and their play acting, diving, arguing etc, its a real surprise.

VAR or no VAR, EVERY world cup comes with a similar conversation.

I think, because of VAR, some people are looking for it though, and confirming their own bias

 

[r-u-s-x]

I know I raised this point before but I cant believe that people are looking at this tournament as a positive for the use of VAR. Likewise those who like VAR are thinking the complete opposite.

With that in mind I don't think there will be a significant change in position in the near future, what happens next - who decides if it should be used going forwards. Who votes on it - players / refs / FA's or just the Fifa committee?

Most larger polls I saw pre FA cup trial had it at 60/40 against (UK only) - how much does this have to change for it to be introduced.

 

[Baleforce]

I watched the first ever PL MotD at the start of season, they were obsessed with back passes and analysed them more than goals, as @nayimfromthehalfwayline says, the current focus is only standard new shiny behaviour.

The whole point of VAR is to make it less about opinions, and more about facts.

 

[Baleforce]

I know I raised this point before but I cant believe that people are looking at this tournament as a positive for the use of VAR. Likewise those who like VAR are thinking the complete opposite.

With that in mind I don't think there will be a significant change in position in the near future, what happens next - who decides if it should be used going forwards. Who votes on it - players / refs / FA's or just the Fifa committee?

Most larger polls I saw pre FA cup trial had it at 60/40 against (UK only) - how much does this have to change for it to be introduced.

in the UK, 52% seems to be enough to change everything

personally I think FIFA will be delighted with how well VAR has worked at the WC

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

VAR for offside is an absolute no brainer.

We’ve clearly seen VAR, or the refs interpretation of rules, struggle with pens though, surely that’s not in debate? If it’s a 50/50 situation then the original decision has to stand.

Penalty incident happens
VAR reviews
Ref makes a decision.

There is no guarantee it is the "right" decision, but there is the guarantee it is right in the refs view. And, I would suggest, a ref having watched multiple angles and replays has more chance of getting it right than his first impression from 20 yards away...

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I know I raised this point before but I cant believe that people are looking at this tournament as a positive for the use of VAR. Likewise those who like VAR are thinking the complete opposite.

With that in mind I don't think there will be a significant change in position in the near future, what happens next - who decides if it should be used going forwards. Who votes on it - players / refs / FA's or just the Fifa committee?

Most larger polls I saw pre FA cup trial had it at 60/40 against (UK only) - how much does this have to change for it to be introduced.

I think its been a mixed bag.

The negatives, for me, are less about exposing "VAR doesnt work" and more about exposing "Holly fudge the refs really need to improve".

There have been definitive calls made, look at the Germany game yesterday. I really dont think this would happen without it.

Of course, there have been roosters ups too. Which show refereeing really needs improving along with the tools at their disposal.

Some games have had excessive stoppages, others havent at all. As I said, mixed bag.

I think improvements to the technical process will make it much more seamless, and remove many of the complaints.

I think improvements to the referees will achieve much the same.

I was watching the Brazil game yesterday, I need to confirm but Im sure the commentary said the Refereeing team was from Italy, but the VAR ref was from Iran. Which just sounded bonkers to me, why would that be the case? In past tournaments the ref and his linesman were all from the same association and were a team, it stands to reason the VAR ref should be part of that team.

Things like this are just silly, but thankfully easily ironed out, which gives me hope for improvement on the implementation side at least.



EDIT:
Just checked
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_Group_E#Serbia_vs_Brazil
The refereeing team was Iranian, the VAR ref Italian, so I probably misheard the commentary. Same point still stands though

 

[Baleforce]

I guess they have the VAR refs from countries where its already in use.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

That would actually be a pretty sensible reason, I feel a bit silly now

 

[scaramanga]

Why bother, its pretty easy to see unless you do not want to. If you honestly feel that the play acting, arguing etc has not increased since VAR came in then there is nothing i can say. Stop! Hammer time and the truth is there to see during this W/C, that's if you really want to.

That's wrong because experts.

Our memories are not an accurate recording of the past. They are constructed from imperfect perception filtered through our beliefs and biases, and then over time they morph and merge. Our memories serve more to support our beliefs rather than inform them.

 

[Lemonade Money]

That's wrong because experts.

Yes, but everyone he meets outside this forum agrees with him, so it must be right.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Yes, but everyone he meets outside this forum agrees with him, so it must be right.

But he doesnt speak for everyone, except for when he speaks for everyone

 

[scaramanga]

Yes, but everyone he meets outside this forum agrees with him, so it must be right.

No, everybody he meets outside of football contradicts themselves

I'm confused. No one is putting words in your mouth. At the weekend you said that you'd spoken to loads of people who thought that VAR would result in all decisions being correct. I thought this was odd and asked you about it. You got a little narky and were insistent that this was the case. Today you say the opposite. Which is it?

 

[Gutter Boy]

I know I raised this point before but I cant believe that people are looking at this tournament as a positive for the use of VAR. Likewise those who like VAR are thinking the complete opposite.

With that in mind I don't think there will be a significant change in position in the near future, what happens next - who decides if it should be used going forwards. Who votes on it - players / refs / FA's or just the Fifa committee?

Most larger polls I saw pre FA cup trial had it at 60/40 against (UK only) - how much does this have to change for it to be introduced.

I think there will be an enormous scandal in one game and it will have to be abandoned immediately. It nearly happened in the Portugal-Iran game. If Iran had scored that last minute winner, the influence and sponsors of Ronaldo would have rallied to kill it off. There will be something like the Rochdale game, or a mass 22-man brawl stemming from boiling feelings of injustice, and 2 billions people will witness it.

It will ruin the world cup final or a semi, and it will be consigned to history with golden goals and kick-ins.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I don't its here to stay now, even if it goes wrong it appears that we are able to blame the human element rather than the system. Even if this version is not successful the comeback will be this is not the finished version the next will be better (and the one after that....) .

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I don't its here to stay now, even if it goes wrong it appears that we are able to blame the human element rather than the system. Even if this version is not successful the comeback will be this is not the finished version the next will be better (and the one after that....) .

Well....yes, exactly.

The system/mechanic is flawed, IMO, in that its clunky and can take to long.

There should be incremental versions of it, improvements and evolution, that is only good sense.

Streamline the mechanics of it, and what is there left to complain about?

Its a tool to aid referees in better decision making. The referee can still get things wrong, same as now.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Well....yes, exactly.

The system/mechanic is flawed, IMO, in that its clunky and can take to long.

There should be incremental versions of it, improvements and evolution, that is only good sense.

Streamline the mechanics of it, and what is there left to complain about?

Its a tool to aid referees in better decision making. The referee can still get things wrong, same as now.

What I expect is a working solution as per the goal line technology, all these versions should be ironed out before being used in major competition this is only good sense. It would have massively reduced criticism if they did as per goal live technology.

Outsource the full program and award contracts based upon working solution - http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...e-year-contract-for-premier-league-goal-line-