VAR: Sponsored by Chelsea

[parklane1]

It's just so easy to exploit though

The faintest brush and you go down, feigning injury. The other 10 players surround the referee drawing windows. In slow-motion the contact looks 10 times worse. The foul and cards, which would never normally be given, are given. The feeling of injustice spreads and an arms race of play acting and window drawing ensues

Iran and Portugal were the first players to really grasp the new potential of it. As Zabeletta said - VAR just drives players to become babies

And boy are the players exploiting it, i saw more playacting, pantomine and arguing in last night game then ever before and for those who say it was no different then what goes on every week then they need to have a reality check.

 

[Gutter Boy]

One thing I will concede though is that it proved last night that it isn't corrupt (yet). The mistakes last night effectively put Russia out of the world cup (they might have beaten Portugal, but they won't Spain), which goes against all logic if they were on the take.

Remarkably not one of the full kit VAR tossers has been found Sarin-ed yet

 

[parklane1]

I didn't say I didn't like it and accept it, I am pretty sure we (me and you) had a lot of back and forth on this pre WC and it was the same arguments, there are things I value and you do not and vise versa that are going into our own views. It feels a little like a BREXIT discussion where there is a circular discussion with both sides convinced they were right and if I am honest with you I just couldn't be bothered to type them all out.

It really does boil down to the fact I like football and I don't think there needs to be any drastic changes, the real big balls ups are few and far between and imho the way to improve refereeing is to accept there is a human element and some mistakes do happen along with the reset the fact that contact does not equal a foul. I don't think the speed of the game or anything like that is making the ref make more mistakes, I think the number of cameras, slow motion, and gobbrick commentators are highlighting errors that are always there. This and the increased diving and simulation is what is making people want VAR, I do not think VAR will reduce diving in a world where contact equals a foul as people will be more inclined to go down knowing that slow motion will see contact.

I think that the introduction of anything so game changing as VAR the onus is on those that are changing it to prove its a net benefit and I am a little bemused that they have introduced it on the big stage prior to it working correctly. Because it gets a few decisions right does not make it a net benefit, you may not agree but where VAR and its performance is the major discussion point on most shows there is a cost there, I will go through these later if you wish but it has been discussed and I think both sides made their points and these have not changed.

Dude - I am sorry if I came across dismissive not the intent but I was keen on not going over old ground.

That sir is a fantastic post.

 

[parklane1]

You can't though, as there's no right answers. 15 minutes of analysis of decisions over half time still tends to leave split decisions on almost everything.

They are subjective judgements and for the sake of the sporting spectacle need to be made immediately

Which was actually the point i made when this rubbish about bringing in VAR into the game was first brought up and talked about. People can kid themselves but it will always be subjective and will not improve the game.

 

[StephenH]

In terms of how far a really bad idea actually got before society snapped to its senses and went 'what the fudge'

Or when football fans do 'perspective'.
Get a grip GB.

 

[parklane1]

NOBODY - except those firmly in the anti camp - expects 400% correct decisions at all time.

.

I have to pull you up on that mate because it is rubbish, i go to games every week and meet fans from all sides and i have never met any who think that there is any solution to 100% decisions being made right, it will never happen.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I didn't say I didn't like it and accept it, I am pretty sure we (me and you) had a lot of back and forth on this pre WC and it was the same arguments, there are things I value and you do not and vise versa that are going into our own views. It feels a little like a BREXIT discussion where there is a circular discussion with both sides convinced they were right and if I am honest with you I just couldn't be bothered to type them all out.

It really does boil down to the fact I like football and I don't think there needs to be any drastic changes, the real big balls ups are few and far between and imho the way to improve refereeing is to accept there is a human element and some mistakes do happen along with the reset the fact that contact does not equal a foul. I don't think the speed of the game or anything like that is making the ref make more mistakes, I think the number of cameras, slow motion, and gobbrick commentators are highlighting errors that are always there. This and the increased diving and simulation is what is making people want VAR, I do not think VAR will reduce diving in a world where contact equals a foul as people will be more inclined to go down knowing that slow motion will see contact.

I think that the introduction of anything so game changing as VAR the onus is on those that are changing it to prove its a net benefit and I am a little bemused that they have introduced it on the big stage prior to it working correctly. Because it gets a few decisions right does not make it a net benefit, you may not agree but where VAR and its performance is the major discussion point on most shows there is a cost there, I will go through these later if you wish but it has been discussed and I think both sides made their points and these have not changed.

Dude - I am sorry if I came across dismissive not the intent but I was keen on not going over old ground.

If youve reached the stage of "Cant be bothered" then we are done here.

Honestly I still think you are ducking the main talking points, and I suspect its because you know it wont stack up.

I do accept you just dont like it, thats fine. Nobody said we all need to agree.

The sticking point with me is always in the why, its a failing of mine but I struggle with things when I dont understand "why".

And in this case, I really dont. But, c'est la vie, no point turning it into any more of an epic than it is now.

I suppose, taking your post at face value, we fundamentally disagree. I do not enjoy the game that much as it is, and I do want to see things change.

 

[parklane1]

It was with goal line technology as it worked - this appears to have been we cant get it to work but we will carry on regardless.

Indeed, its madness.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I have to pull you up on that mate because it is rubbish, i go to games every week and meet fans from all sides and i have never met any who think that there is any solution to 400% decisions being made right, it will never happen.

Read the thread, Ive lost count of the times Ive read (basically) "If its not 100% right all the time its not fair so theres no point".

 

[StephenH]

Yes there may be some who dislike any form of change but to suggest that all negative comments are based on that stance is just wrong.

What at least some of us - and going by the comments on this thread probably the majority - want to see is VAR being introduced much more judiciously. Most are not against VAR per se but the crass way it has been imposed upon the greatest competition in the world before being thoroughly trialled and tested and honed at lower levels.

If only life was that simple. Sadly VAR would die a death if we waited for all the various trials to works seamlessly. It will take years for VAR to settle in.
Spains VAR allowed goal was spot-on. The poor soul of a ref in the other game did not cope so well, bless him.

 

[StephenH]

Any particular post that’s made you think that way?

I'll let you guess.

 

[parklane1]

Peoples attitudes towards VAR are a basic manifestation of their dislike of change.
Change can be a bitch as it is like a wobbly supermarket trolley, difficult to predict its precise path.
Some of us cope easier with the erratic journey than others.
I find it very exciting, pastures new and all that.

Sorry mate that is rubbish, speaking from my own opinion its nothing to do with change its all down to way its ruining the game ( imo) and i do not believe it will ever work.

 

[parklane1]

Read the thread, Ive lost count of the times Ive read (basically) "If its not 400% right all the time its not fair so theres no point".

I must admit i have not seen that ( not saying it has not been said) however your post which was this

NOBODY - except those firmly in the anti camp - expects 400% correct decisions at all time.

Now if i read it right you are saying that i and others like me do not like VFR because it can not be 100% right. I will say again i have met many fans from all clubs and i have never met ONE who dislikes VFR because of that, they do not like VFR because it is spoiling the game.

 

[StephenH]

Sorry mate that is rubbish, speaking from my own opinion its nothing to do with change its all down to way its ruining the game ( imo) and i do not believe it will ever work.

The referees need to book all players and managers for doing the VAR sign for starters. There must be a clampdown on this.
The rest is once again the players acting up. Made the poor sods life a misery last night.
Couple of reds cards will solve that.
Player need to be jumped on and quick.

 

[parklane1]

me

The referees need to book all players and managers for doing the VAR sign for starters. There must be a clampdown on this.
The rest is once again the players acting up. Made the poor sods life a misery last night.
Couple of reds cards will solve that.
Player need to be jumped on and quick.

You are not wrong about booking players and i agree, funny though i am sure there have been some on here who said that the play acting, dissent, arguing is not any worse then it usually is/was before VFR. Which in all honesty is gonads ( imo).

 

[StephenH]

You are not wrong about booking players and i agree, funny though i am sure there have been some on here who said that the play acting, dissent, arguing is not any worse then it usually is/was before VFR. Which in all honesty is gonads ( imo).

We all know these players will sniff out a weak ref from several pitch lengths.They will then push and push the referee till they wind the poor sod up till he don’t know what day it is!
They are just pushing thier luck or taking the tinkle to give it’s real name.
The smaller nations are by far the worst offenders, using all means at their disposal to get an advantage.

 

[Seedy Ron]

funny though i am sure there have been some on here who said that the play acting, dissent, arguing is not any worse then it usually is/was before VFR. Which in all honesty is gonads ( imo).

Aren't you basing that off that one game last night? I don't remember it being particularly unusual in that respect otherwise.

I agree with @StephenH that players will push the limits they think they can get away with, it'll be the same teams as the imaginary yellow cards etc. Need the ref to stand up to that.

 

[StephenH]

Today is not a good one for this VAR debate.
Last night the ref was sadly inept, the players were a disgrace also.
Let’s not use the antics from all parties in last nights farce as a sample of VAR.

It was funny at times though

 

[parklane1]

Aren't you basing that off that one game last night? I don't remember it being particularly unusual in that respect otherwise.

I agree with @StephenH that players will push the limits they think they can get away with, it'll be the same teams as the imaginary yellow cards etc. Need the ref to stand up to that.

Of course the game last night was a poor one in player behavior but there was far more VFR brought into the game and because of that the ref lost the plot. He actually had a decent game in the first half but after all the VFR rubbish he went to pieces. Now before any jumps in and say that was not VAR fault as a ref should be above all that pressure i agree to a point, however we have seen several games when the ref is put under pressure after VFR use and at other times being surrounded by players who want him to go too it.

The main point is that some were suggesting that players actions are not being influenced by the use/or non use and that is not the case.

 

[r-u-s-x]

If youve reached the stage of "Cant be bothered" then we are done here.

Honestly I still think you are ducking the main talking points, and I suspect its because you know it wont stack up.

I do accept you just dont like it, thats fine. Nobody said we all need to agree.

The sticking point with me is always in the why, its a failing of mine but I struggle with things when I dont understand "why".

And in this case, I really dont. But, c'est la vie, no point turning it into any more of an epic than it is now.

I suppose, taking your post at face value, we fundamentally disagree. I do not enjoy the game that much as it is, and I do want to see things change.

I answered we have had this conversation rather than I can't be bothered.