VAR: Sponsored by Chelsea

[milo]

Only? ONLY? I thought the whole point of VAR was that it was meant to eliminate once and for all the fudge-ups by referees. Instead we STILL have farcical decisions but now it seems we've also added even more delays, even more clowning, even more mayhem and an even greater sense of injustice than we ever had before.

Well done FIFA.

No, it was to improve the amount of correct decisions. We still have humans making the decisions and they'll still get some of them wrong.

 

[r-u-s-x]

No, it was to improve the amount of correct decisions. We still have humans making the decisions and they'll still get some of them wrong.

they have purposely limited the scope of VAR to clear and obvious mistakes in key situations I think it's fair to expect better. VAR and the ref are not separate it's one system.

 

[Spur of the moment]

No, it was to improve the amount of correct decisions. We still have humans making the decisions and they'll still get some of them wrong.

In which case it is a mess so far because the game as a spectacle is on course to becoming a joke. Other sports, eg cricket, seem to have understood that the use of technology is more about getting factual decisions right. From what we've seen so far FIFA needs to row back from attempting to use video technology to resolve issues that revolve around opinion and interpretation.

Exceot it may already be too late. The genie appears to be well and truly out of the bottle.

 

[r-u-s-x]

My worry is a lot of people are looking at this competition and feel it's proof that VAR works, I both do not agree and find it hard to see how this conclusion is reached. I am sure that they will say the same about my view .

As you said genie is out of the bottle.

 

[Mikey10]

If I put my clothes in the dishwasher it’s not Hotpoints fault. Giving a person a tool doesn’t mean they’ll use it wisely.

It’s not Hotpoint’s fault??? Awww brick.

 

[Jordinho]

My worry is a lot of people are looking at this competition and feel it's proof that VAR works, I both do not agree and find it hard to see how this conclusion is reached. I am sure that they will say the same about my view .

As you said genie is out of the bottle.

It's not perfect, but it works. I've not seen anything to make me think this must be abolished. Some changes should be made though.

Give the VAR authority to make the calls and we can begin to eliminate the players harassing the ref and cut down the time it takes. More needs to be done in regards to players respecting the ref anyway. Playacting and time wasting was a considerable issue well before VAR.

 

[r-u-s-x]

It's not perfect, but it works. I've not seen anything to make me think this must be abolished. Some changes should be made though.

Give the VAR authority to make the calls and we can begin to eliminate the players harassing the ref and cut down the time it takes. More needs to be done in regards to players respecting the ref anyway. Playacting and time wasting was a considerable issue well before VAR.

Why have we not been ironing these out in the lower league or training pitches (we did with goal line tech) . If you are going to drastically change the game so much surely you turn up with a finished product

 

[Jordinho]

Why have we not been ironing these out in the lower league or training pitches (we did with goal line tech) . If you are going to drastically change the game so much surely you turn up with a finished product

Maybe this is how they want it to be?

As long this idea that taking any responsibilities away from the ref somehow undermines him remain, some issues will always be there.

 

[Spur of the moment]

It's not perfect, but it works. I've not seen anything to make me think this must be abolished. Some changes should be made though.

Give the VAR authority to make the calls and we can begin to eliminate the players harassing the ref and cut down the time it takes. More needs to be done in regards to players respecting the ref anyway. Playacting and time wasting was a considerable issue well before VAR.

Except the play-acting has now gone up several more notches.

Somehow this needs to be tackled head-on. The difficulty where faking injuries is concerned of course is in judging when it is play-acting and when a player is genuinely injured. Not something that can easily be resolved by VAR. I do not know the answer nor do I trust FIFA to come up with it either.

 

[r-u-s-x]

Maybe this is how they want it to be?

As long this idea that taking any responsibilities away from the ref somehow undermines him remain, some issues will always be there.

I know its not Fifa but when its criticized the response tends to be its still finding its feet/ it will improve over time/ technology will improve/ process will improve - well do that in the French second division and come to us with a working product.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

But every player feels aggrieved by it, it sends tempers soaring and ruins the entire spectacle

Does anyone remember any football tonight? Nope. It was arguing, play acting and pantomime. The sport part of the game has been sacrificed to the gods of Kafkaesque bureaucracy.

As if it wasnt anyway?! Ha! Take of your nostalgia glasses and wake up.

VAR has been introduced because the game is a joke as it stands, because of the play acting, pantomime etc.

If the game was as good as you repeatedly infer, it wouldnt have even come up.

You needed to watch the whole second half of the Portugal game to see what happened. After the first VAR decision sent the players into meltdown, the whole rest of the match was playacting and 22 men surrounding the referee drawing squares in the air.

This is nothing to do with VAR and everything to do with refereeing. That and players complete lack of class.

These things have never been an issue in Rugby, where respect is a part of the sport, what makes footballers act the way they do Ill never know.

Again, anything that curbs that, for me, is a good thing.

No, it was to improve the amount of correct decisions. We still have humans making the decisions and they'll still get some of them wrong.

It seems to me some have simply decided against VAR, and so hold it to an impossible standard in order to justify this.

VAR is not skynet, its not a machine learning algorythm, its not going to get micro-precise calls right. Its a system to aid the referees.

Amusingly, the same people calling for more fallibility in the game also complain when said referees make a wrong decision...

Why have we not been ironing these out in the lower league or training pitches (we did with goal line tech) . If you are going to drastically change the game so much surely you turn up with a finished product

I think with goal line tech it was something that was an absolute. Ball crossed the line, yes or no. An almost mechanical thing.

VAR is a whole different beast, isnt it? My guess would be that they need the scrutiny of something like a WC in order to push it along.

That and the fact it relies so heavily on TV cameras, they would need to be present.

I suppose on that front they could trial it in the Championship first? Though Im unsure if all championship games have the required camera coverage.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Except the play-acting has now gone up several more notches.

Somehow this needs to be tackled head-on. The difficulty where faking injuries is concerned of course is in judging when it is play-acting and when a player is genuinely injured. Not something that can easily be resolved by VAR. I do not know the answer nor do I trust FIFA to come up with it either.

It's just so easy to exploit though

The faintest brush and you go down, feigning injury. The other 10 players surround the referee drawing windows. In slow-motion the contact looks 10 times worse. The foul and cards, which would never normally be given, are given. The feeling of injustice spreads and an arms race of play acting and window drawing ensues

Iran and Portugal were the first players to really grasp the new potential of it. As Zabeletta said - VAR just drives players to become babies

 

[milo]

It's just so easy to exploit though

The faintest brush and you go down, feigning injury. The other 10 players surround the referee drawing windows. In slow-motion the contact looks 10 times worse. The foul and cards, which would never normally be given, are given. The feeling of injustice spreads and an arms race of play acting and window drawing ensues

Iran and Portugal were the first players to really grasp the new potential of it. As Zabeletta said - VAR just drives players to become babies

That happened anyway. The only thing new is the window gestures.

 

[r-u-s-x]

I think with goal line tech it was something that was an absolute. Ball crossed the line, yes or no. An almost mechanical thing.

VAR is a whole different beast, isnt it? My guess would be that they need the scrutiny of something like a WC in order to push it along.

That and the fact it relies so heavily on TV cameras, they would need to be present.

I suppose on that front they could trial it in the Championship first? Though Im unsure if all championship games have the required camera coverage.

Pay for the cameras in one ground in the second division, its a rich game - not having cameras is not a valid excuse.

Why would you test something with all the worlds eyes on it, I don't understand how this level of scrutiny helps develop a system that works? It will turn people against the concept though, lose trust that will take a long while to recover.

" think with goal line tech it was something that was an absolute. Ball crossed the line, yes or no. An almost mechanical thing." yep I agree, its why I think Goal line technology was a good step.

 

[Gutter Boy]

These things have never been an issue in Rugby, where respect is a part of the sport, what makes footballers act the way they do Ill never know.

In rugby it is used almost exclusively to check matters of fact - foot in touch, ball grounding and forward passes. And only then after a try has been scored and the phases of play over. The only other thing they look at is dangerous tackles.

But matters of judgement and technical fouls during the run of play can't be looked at.

And all of these the video ref makes the decision, not the one on the pitch.

 

[Gutter Boy]

That happened anyway. The only thing new is the window gestures.

No, because 98 times out of 100 the ref just ignored it because he saw it for what it was. But now the slow-motion means they are all being given, so there's real motivation to try it on at every opportunity

 

[r-u-s-x]

That happened anyway. The only thing new is the window gestures.

Do you not think the fact that the change from "referees decision is final" to "if you complain enough you may get him to look at the tv screed" has / will increase this behavior?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

This idea of slow mo making things look worse and referees being to stupid to judge it properly also needs to stop.

Repeat it enough, it still wont be true.

Pay for the cameras in one ground in the second division, its a rich game - not having cameras is not a valid excuse.

Why would you test something with all the worlds eyes on it, I don't understand how this level of scrutiny helps develop a system that works? It will turn people against the concept though, lose trust that will take a long while to recover.

" think with goal line tech it was something that was an absolute. Ball crossed the line, yes or no. An almost mechanical thing." yep I agree, its why I think Goal line technology was a good step.

Thats the point, isnt it? That level of scrutiny should drive serious improvement. I would expect a whole review after the WC, what worked, what didnt etc - and further improvements to follow.

More drastic improvement than what we saw from the domestic season to WC.

I dont really understand this idea of "losing trust" etc. Genuinely. No one trusts refs anyway, this is an attempt to improve their decision making, the end result (eventually) should be a positive outcome.

If anything, for me, VAR has just exposed how acceptable it has become for referees to not actually have any respect or control of games.

Also, its not optional. If they decide to implement it, its coming. Its not something people have a choice in, so what are they going to do? Despite all the melodrama I wager nearly all those claiming theyll walk away will not. Im also expecting its really just a resistance to change, once its in and working itll be "normal" soon enough.

Let me ask you - if the VAR ref ends up able to make calls*, if the comms between the refs is broadcast - so decisions are made quickly and clearly - will you have an issue with it?

*With the VAR ref able to spot off the ball stuff, punish gamesmanship and cheating, validate on field queries, call penalties etc.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

In rugby it is used almost exclusively to check matters of fact - foot in touch, ball grounding and forward passes. And only then after a try has been scored and the phases of play over. The only other thing they look at is dangerous tackles.

But matters of judgement and technical fouls during the run of play can't be looked at.

And all of these the video ref makes the decision, not the one on the pitch.

Ive been saying since page 1, the video ref needs to be able to make decisions.

I would be stunned if VAR as it is today, is what goes into practice in a couple of seasons time, and fully hope for that to be one of the things that changes between now and then.

Its in its infancy, a little perspective needs to be applied.

Do you not think the fact that the change from "referees decision is final" to "if you complain enough you may get him to look at the tv screed" has / will increase this behavior?

I think (hope!) that with an outside force speaking in absolutes, arguing will be pointless.

The ref is at that point not the be all/end all, and is not judging things solely in real time as it happens. His decisions are more "certain" and therefore he is not to be swayed.

I would see that as, hopefully, a pretty big factor in reducing that behaviour.

Problem is, its so deeply ingrained at the moment its going to take time to change it.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I'd accept them basically acting like a 3rd lineman. Immediate advice in the referee's ear based on what they've seen on the screens in real time. No reviews, delays or changing of decisions though.

If you want to broadcast anything (which I wouldn't do), it has to be piped into the stadium, not just for tv