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Tottenham Hotspur V Brentford

Thoughts on the game.

Perhaps the only time this season where I have seen the symbiotic relationship between the full-backs and the centre mids actually work in an Ange away game system. In fact the biggest reason it wasn't the normal Ange system today was because we finally played a double pivot midfield. There is just no point talking about how high the full-backs are (or aren't) unless you factor in where the midfielders are. Not sure why it took so long for that lightbulb to finally appear above Ange's head though. I genuinely hope we've turned a corner, as the complete opposite happened only one week ago and cost us 2 points. That was more like the Bentancur we came accustomed to under Conte and why so many of us have been advocating for a proper number 6. Spence was fantastic as well. Porro, another unsung hero with his industry despite his fatigue.

But well done Ange for the team selection today. Protecting Bergval after playing every single minute for about 5 games was the right decision. Holding Sarr back as well can only help his niggles. Not playing VDV and getting 3 points should also go as credit to the manager. The planned half time sub was spot on as well.

Whilst I don't think Brentford were that good, except Damsgaard, I thought we were good for the win. Don't care whether there were a couple of lucky moments either. We deserve that.
 
Muttley said:
Thoughts on the game.

Perhaps the only time this season where I have seen the symbiotic relationship between the full-backs and the centre mids actually work in an Ange away game system. In fact the biggest reason it wasn't the normal Ange system today was because we finally played a double pivot midfield. There is just no point talking about how high the full-backs are (or aren't) unless you factor in where the midfielders are. Not sure why it took so long for that lightbulb to finally appear above Ange's head though. I genuinely hope we've turned a corner, as the complete opposite happened only one week ago and cost us 2 points. That was more like the Bentancur we came accustomed to under Conte and why so many of us have been advocating for a proper number 6. Spence was fantastic as well. Porro, another unsung hero with his industry despite his fatigue.

But well done Ange for the team selection today. Protecting Bergval after playing every single minute for about 5 games was the right decision. Holding Sarr back as well can only help his niggles. Not playing VDV and getting 3 points should also go as credit to the manager. The planned half time sub was spot on as well.

Whilst I don't think Brentford were that good, except Damsgaard, I thought we were good for the win. Don't care whether there were a couple of lucky moments either. We deserve that.
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Since Ipswich on Nov 10th, Bentancur has largely been unavailable. When he has been, Bissouma hasn't been. This was the first Premier League game the two have started together since we ran headfirst into the injury crisis. I think when people strip away all the 'Angeball' stuff, it is clear that from January we have absolutely modified the approach (I am not even saying it was desired, more a product of realising they're tired). We have been setting up for some time with the FBs no bombing quite so much and the whole side 10 yards deeper/not pressing all the time. The issue is that we absolutely suffer from not having a great 6, so to play more 'contained' requires the pair to sit deeper, and we simply have not had the two who can do that consistently until today. Add to that the fact that I think the players have been caught in modifying/adapting, and I think it's actually really unfair to talk about lightbulbs over heads. I know that to an extent lines are drawn around these parts (not necessarily you mate) but I think it's important to call out what I (and others) are seeing too.
 
thfcsteff said:
Since Ipswich on Nov 10th, Bentancur has largely been unavailable. When he has been, Bissouma hasn't been. This was the first Premier League game the two have started together since we ran headfirst into the injury crisis. I think when people strip away all the 'Angeball' stuff, it is clear that from January we have absolutely modified the approach (I am not even saying it was desired, more a product of realising they're tired). We have been setting up for some time with the FBs no bombing quite so much and the whole side 10 yards deeper/not pressing all the time. The issue is that we absolutely suffer from not having a great 6, so to play more 'contained' requires the pair to sit deeper, and we simply have not had the two who can do that consistently until today. Add to that the fact that I think the players have been caught in modifying/adapting, and I think it's actually really unfair to talk about lightbulbs over heads. I know that to an extent lines are drawn around these parts (not necessarily you mate) but I think it's important to call out what I (and others) are seeing too.
Click to expand...

I think the lightbulb reference is totally fair as pertains to AWAY games. Even when we had a fit quota of players, we had a statistical problem in away fixtures and lots of us were calling for a tactical change involving the full-backs and midfield. Now Brentford is just one of those horrible games to go to because of the aggression and directness of their football. You will get bypassed, and I would go as far today as saying Toney would have made a massive different to their setup if had still been around. Even if we replace Gray and Davies with VDV and Romero, I genuinely hope that Ange pays more respect to these tough away fixtures you get in the PL. We've lost so many points over them, whether it is with a fit squad or completely broken on.

Did we perhaps see an evolutionary step in our manager's assimilation to this league? I hope so.

As for the midfield boys, you probably see I'm a lot less harsh on Bissouma than some of you. He's an unsung hero for me who has played through injury and still found a solid consistency this season. I think his 2 bad games were Pool and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, but for me he's been a rock for us despite the hamstring issue. He's also not the golden boy that found himself missing 8 or 9 games due to his own actions on and off the pitch. I do like that combo though. Even more than that I like it when we can rotate Biss, Bents and Sarr so 2 start and one replaces one of them. That in rotation of different starters and subs has been when I've seen our best midfield this season. Now that Bergval and Gray are building their own strong cases, there is no reason why that midfield intensity can't become our strength again with 5 subs.

Hopefully, we all know Ange is only human and hasn't been put on this earth to fudge Spurs over. Happy to see that old demeanour return in the pressers.
 
thfcsteff said:
Since Ipswich on Nov 10th, Bentancur has largely been unavailable. When he has been, Bissouma hasn't been. This was the first Premier League game the two have started together since we ran headfirst into the injury crisis.
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We have sorely missed Bentancur. The cumulative effect of a second string defense, and missing our only top notch midfielder, well..it was a losing streak. Why we are not upgrading our midfield now idk.

Bissouma has his 'moments' both in a positive and negative sense. But just imagine for a moment we had another player of Bentancurs ability in the middle. Why we are not aspiring to, and doing our damndest to add quality to midfield is mystifying. It is so crucial to making our system work, to be able to manipulate the ball through midfield. For the last few months, all teams had to do was stop our wing play, and we were blunt.

thfcsteff said:
I think when people strip away all the 'Angeball' stuff, it is clear that from January we have absolutely modified the approach (I am not even saying it was desired, more a product of realising they're tired). We have been setting up for some time with the FBs no bombing quite so much and the whole side 10 yards deeper/not pressing all the time. The issue is that we absolutely suffer from not having a great 6, so to play more 'contained' requires the pair to sit deeper, and we simply have not had the two who can do that consistently until today. Add to that the fact that I think the players have been caught in modifying/adapting, and I think it's actually really unfair to talk about lightbulbs over heads. I know that to an extent lines are drawn around these parts (not necessarily you mate) but I think it's important to call out what I (and others) are seeing too.
Click to expand...

We have been more cautious. But whilst pressing. And the press becomes pointless - worse - in some games it just drags us out of position and makes it easy for teams attacking. Because we dont have that high line and full commitment, our press just creates space for teams to attack in our half. It has become a major weakness at times recently.
 
SpurMeUp said:
We have sorely missed Bentancur. The cumulative effect of a second string defense, and missing our only top notch midfielder, well..it was a losing streak. Why we are not upgrading our midfield now idk.

Bissouma has his 'moments' both in a positive and negative sense. But just imagine for a moment we had another player of Bentancurs ability in the middle. Why we are not aspiring to, and doing our damndest to add quality to midfield is mystifying. It is so crucial to making our system work, to be able to manipulate the ball through midfield. For the last few months, all teams had to do was stop our wing play, and we were blunt.
Click to expand...

I just wish Bentancur has that little more upper body strength. Is it me, or has he become almost to lean recently? He was outmuscled a fair few times in this match despite playing fantastically. He's definitely got a better football brain than Biss.
 
Muttley said:
I just wish Bentancur has that little more upper body strength. Is it me, or has he become almost to lean recently? He was outmuscled a fair few times in this match despite playing fantastically. He's definitely got a better football brain than Biss.
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He's not perfect. But is clearly our best midfielder. No one is focused on midfield, but for me strengthening this area is probably the most powerful thing we could do imo.
 
SpurMeUp said:
He's not perfect. But is clearly our best midfielder. No one is focused on midfield, but for me strengthening this area is probably the most powerful thing we could do imo.
Click to expand...
I honestly think CM is our weakest position, I think they are all good at certain things but overall not that great (Bergvall and Gray I hope in the next 2 seasons can go beyond this level) and we could definitely upgrade there. I would say for the summer a top CM should be the priority along with a RWF...
 
harr1984 said:
I honestly think CM is our weakest position, I think they are all good at certain things but overall not that great (Bergvall and Gray I hope in the next 2 seasons can go beyond this level) and we could definitely upgrade there. I would say for the summer a top CM should be the priority along with a RWF...
Click to expand...
Bergvall definitely has ability to turn on the ball, evade players, and pick a pass. But of course he's 18 and maturing. He is not going to be consistent. He is quite mercurial too - he could be quite a scintillating unpredictable player. Moments where he shows what he could be. Hopefully we have the right coaches around him to bring out the best in him. Again I think Ange has done a decent job, just getting him to play a pragmatic game. Not try to dribble past the whole team and win it all with a Hollywood ball right away.

And Gray will no doubt come of age too. The silver lining of our form and league position is being able to get these players playing.

A lot of successful teams have an over-supply of midfielders. The heart of the team. I don't think we should sell Bissouma either. He brings a lot. We just need a top quality addition.
 
^^Why do you think our midfield is weak? We have 3 positions in midfield
When fit and assuming we have wingers and centre backs, we have at least 7 players for the 3 positions

Bentancur Bissouma Sarr Gray
Deki Maddison Bergvall
 
Bullet said:
^^Why do you think our midfield is weak? We have 3 positions in midfield
When fit and assuming we have wingers and centre backs, we have at least 7 players for the 3 positions

Bentancur Bissouma Sarr Gray
Deki Maddison Bergvall
Click to expand...

Probably means weak in terms of the top end quality - because as you say in terms of depth it's very strong.
 
harr1984 said:
I honestly think CM is our weakest position, I think they are all good at certain things but overall not that great (Bergvall and Gray I hope in the next 2 seasons can go beyond this level) and we could definitely upgrade there. I would say for the summer a top CM should be the priority along with a RWF...
Click to expand...
I think the wings and creative midfield positions are the weakest based on current ability. Potential there is humongous though.
 
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