Timo Werner

[braineclipse]

I was interested in his miss. To me, I've not been so confident a player wouldn't score from that position since Zokora in the 2008 LC final. You could see as soon as he went through that his mind froze and he was crippled by indecision. Something you'd never ever see from Son (our other player who has the pace to get into those situations).

However, I also think it's potentially fixable. His goal was easy because it was instinctive - he didn't have time to think. So the solution is just mental coaching to stop the overthinking.

It might not happen - Jenas never got himself out of that hole. Werner also isn't a kid. But I think there's some hope there with a bit of psychological work.

Indecision is probably a good description. Trying to go around the keeper is a decent plan, but probably needs to also try to sell the keeper on a shot to make that more likely to succeed. Perhaps he just ended up with the going around the keeper because he couldn't quite make his mind up.

In my head I imagine that Werner has scored from situations like that quite a few times. But not like I remember any specific examples.

Think he's short on confidence in front of goal, I think that tends to make players more indecisive. I doubt it's fixable in the way you present, he'll probably always be around average with his finishing overall. But it's certainly possible for him to go on a hot streak, get some confidence etc and look better in those situations.

For now he's playing rather well. Getting very good assist numbers. Getting into goalscoring opportunities. That's a pretty good place to be.

 

[braineclipse]

Personally I still think we need to be aiming higher than Werner. If it’s Werner AND another, better forward to come in this summer that wouldn’t be the end of the world I suppose, but we should look at other players first.

Someone better would be better. But given the cost, his experience and versatility and the need to spend money elsewhere I think he would be a fine signing (assuming he's one of two for those roles).

Seems that Ange likes him and I can understand that. Fits the system really well and fits the wide left role better than I thought he would when we loaned him in.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Pretty sure they’d sign a replacement for Salah when and if he leaves. Nunez is more of a number 9, not a winger.

They may
But that may be Jota
They may also think they have someone from within the youth
They also need a new manager and DOF
So the appeal for a world star may not be there
Then add in that there really isn’t many world class wide forwards on the planet any more

 

[FatBloke]

Indecision is probably a good description. Trying to go around the keeper is a decent plan, but probably needs to also try to sell the keeper on a shot to make that more likely to succeed. Perhaps he just ended up with the going around the keeper because he couldn't quite make his mind up.

In my head I imagine that Werner has scored from situations like that quite a few times. But not like I remember any specific examples.

Think he's short on confidence in front of goal, I think that tends to make players more indecisive. I doubt it's fixable in the way you present, he'll probably always be around average with his finishing overall. But it's certainly possible for him to go on a hot streak, get some confidence etc and look better in those situations.

For now he's playing rather well. Getting very good assist numbers. Getting into goalscoring opportunities. That's a pretty good place to be.

As someone said earlier, we've been thoroughly spoilt by Sonny and Kane these last few years -- get either of them 1-on-1 with the keeper and it's usually a goal. But they are both world class finishers.

Going back to Keano and Defoe, it seems to me as though they'd mess it up a lot more than they'd score. Keano was a wonderful instinctual forward, but give him time to think and it always seemed to go wrong. Defoe was better running towards the keeper, but still messed up plenty.

I'm liking what I see so far with Werner. Right attitude, never stops running, and we've got him at a bargain fee. The finishing may come but, even if it doesn't, I really think we should keep him.

 

[Bishop]

As someone said earlier, we've been thoroughly spoilt by Sonny and Kane these last few years -- get either of them 1-on-1 with the keeper and it's usually a goal. But they are both world class finishers.

Going back to Keano and Defoe, it seems to me as though they'd mess it up a lot more than they'd score. Keano was a wonderful instinctual forward, but give him time to think and it always seemed to go wrong. Defoe was better running towards the keeper, but still messed up plenty.

I'm liking what I see so far with Werner. Right attitude, never stops running, and we've got him at a bargain fee. The finishing may come but, even if it doesn't, I really think we should keep him.

Keane and Defoe are two very good comparisons, because they like Werner were quite poor in finisning terms when they had time to think. The thing is someone like myself didn't think either were good enough back then and could be improved upon so I think the same now re Werner.

Someone better would be better. But given the cost, his experience and versatility and the need to spend money elsewhere I think he would be a fine signing (assuming he's one of two for those roles).

Seems that Ange likes him and I can understand that. Fits the system really well and fits the wide left role better than I thought he would when we loaned him in.

If he's the secondary option and we go for a first 11 class player then fine. He's a decent addition for a cheap price, however I do not want him as our primary LW attacker. I want to win the league or at least challenge for it, that won't be happening with these forwards.

They may
But that may be Jota
They may also think they have someone from within the youth
They also need a new manager and DOF
So the appeal for a world star may not be there
Then add in that there really isn’t many world class wide forwards on the planet any more

You're so biased you can't even see it.

If you supported Liverpool you'd be saying the opposite.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Keane and Defoe are two very good comparisons, because they like Werner were quite poor in finisning terms when they had time to think. The thing is someone like myself didn't think either were good enough back then and could be improved upon so I think the same now re Werner.

If he's the secondary option and we go for a first 11 class player then fine. He's a decent addition for a cheap price, however I do not want him as our primary LW attacker. I want to win the league or at least challenge for it, that won't be happening with these forwards.

You're so biased you can't even see it.

If you supported Liverpool you'd be saying the opposite.

Lost me there…
In what way?
Jota and Salah have top drawer goal returns
The rest don’t
Nunez misses hatfuls of chances… he may come good
The others though aren’t all that
Who do they buy to replace a 25 goal a season “wide forward”. There isn’t one player in the world other than Salah at that level.

I’ll add I do agree with your comments about Keane and Defoe. Instinct strikers. Said it at the time. Someone like Berbatov, son and Kane though… you would back them every time with time

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I think there's a pretty decent consensus that another attacking player should be one of the big priorities come the summer. And that Werner isn't that player.

As a squad player I'm very happy with him so far and probably would be happy with him joining us permanently come the summer. But I don't think he should be the only, or the main, attacking addition come the summer.

He's been good tough. Bit wasteful with his shooting and that obviously plays into a preexisting narrative around him. I think that narrative is true, but perhaps a bit overstated at times. But overall he's had a really positive impact. Think he could prove fairly versatile in this system too, that's really good for a squad player.

I think at £15m it leaves the window open for him and another as that's not much of a dent in our budget... especially if you then consider the possibility of Gil and Solomon both moving on.

That said it's only sensible to make that call after the final game (and I'd include Solomon in that, who we've barely seen tbh).

And if we are adding another left sided forward I would like it to lean towards the tricky dribbly type. (And even a bigger bonus if they are happy on the right side if needed)

 

[Grays_1890]

No one has said sign Nunez. Pretty sure they wouldn’t sell to us anyway so it’s a moot point. We were comparing the front line of Liverpool vs ours. I said their forwards as a unit are better. Not really a controversial opinion considering they’re top.

Interestingly with Nunez I actually like him now, think he has developed into a very handy Striker. Think the lesson there is like some of ours, wait and see before we judge.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I’ll add I do agree with your comments about Keane and Defoe. Instinct strikers. Said it at the time. Someone like Berbatov, son and Kane though… you would back them every time with time

Because we had Kane and Son for so long we (incorrectly) think one on one (or time to think) finishes are easy/second nature. Make no mistake they are elite in those situations, and we've (unknowingly) been spoilt all these years.

The one quality Keane (and probably Defoe) had is a miss never bothered them, it was onto the next chance, it didn't play on their minds.

Werner is probably below average as a finisher...he may get better but I don't think you'd want him thru the middle as the main man you rely on to finish BUT he can bring other qualities.

But alas, he will suffer from the sub conscious comparisons we make to the two players who scored for fun for seasons.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Because we had Kane and Son for so long we (incorrectly) think one on one (or time to think) finishes are easy/second nature. Make no mistake they are elite in those situations, and we've (unknowingly) been spoilt all these years.

The one quality Keane (and probably Defoe) had is a miss never bothered them, it was onto the next chance, it didn't play on their minds.

Werner is probably below average as a finisher...he may get better but I don't think you'd want him thru the middle as the main man you rely on to finish BUT he can bring other qualities.

But alas, he will suffer from the sub conscious comparisons we make to the two players who scored for fun for seasons.

Werner has the same mentality
Of I miss one I move on … that’s elite even if he doesn’t have elite tool set

Kane and son were the best finishers in the league… they still are globally

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Interestingly with Nunez I actually like him now, think he has developed into a very handy Striker. Think the lesson there is like some of ours, wait and see before we judge.

He misses foo many chances IMO
Don’t forget his price tag. It’s a top top player price
He works hard for sure but his finishing is erratic

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

He misses foo many chances IMO
Don’t forget his price tag. It’s a top top player price
He works hard for sure but his finishing is erratic

It would interesting to do a comparison because even in the Nunez example is his finishing erratic or the norm when compared to the average or above average striker?

As I said above...is our analysis coloured by witnessing Son and Kane for so long we have sub consciously set the bar too high?

Maybe Nunez is just your typical goodish forward...when digging into stats?

 

[Bishop]

Lost me there…
In what way?
Jota and Salah have top drawer goal returns
The rest don’t
Nunez misses hatfuls of chances… he may come good
The others though aren’t all that
Who do they buy to replace a 25 goal a season “wide forward”. There isn’t one player in the world other than Salah at that level.

I’ll add I do agree with your comments about Keane and Defoe. Instinct strikers. Said it at the time. Someone like Berbatov, son and Kane though… you would back them every time with time

Nunez, Dias, Salah and Jota all get into our squad over the forwards we have. The only guy we have on their levels or above is Son. Kulu had his 6 month spell but since then he's a level below the rest are worse.

 

[parklane1]

I'm liking what I see so far with Werner. Right attitude, never stops running, and we've got him at a bargain fee. The finishing may come but, even if it doesn't, I really think we should keep him.

Would agree with you about keeping him, his pace is always going to be a asset and i think he has done well so far for us.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Interestingly with Nunez I actually like him now, think he has developed into a very handy Striker. Think the lesson there is like some of ours, wait and see before we judge.

There’s 12 games to this season, I’m not sure much will change between now and then to change my mind that the forwards we have aren’t good enough but I might be wrong. Here’s a question to the forum, can anyone name their preferred front three? My guess would be there would be different names bandied about bar Son. The fact that none of the forwards have made the position their own is quite telling.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Lost me there…
In what way?
Jota and Salah have top drawer goal returns
The rest don’t
Nunez misses hatfuls of chances… he may come good
The others though aren’t all that
Who do they buy to replace a 25 goal a season “wide forward”. There isn’t one player in the world other than Salah at that level.

I’ll add I do agree with your comments about Keane and Defoe. Instinct strikers. Said it at the time. Someone like Berbatov, son and Kane though… you would back them every time with time

Klopp knows his best front three, not sure Ange does.

 

[Grays_1890]

There’s 12 games to this season, I’m not sure much will change between now and then to change my mind that the forwards we have aren’t good enough but I might be wrong. Here’s a question to the forum, can anyone name their preferred front three? My guess would be there would be different names bandied about bar Son. The fact that none of the forwards have made the position their own is quite telling.

Werner - Son - Johnson

I think the fact we can't is shoehorning players IMO because Sons our best striker and Werner our best left winger, but Richarlison playing means Son gets moved out wide, I don't think he is good out there though. Johnson v Deki is more what you like, but on form and Pace I take Johnson now

 

[Gutter Boy]

Werner - Son - Johnson

I think the fact we can't is shoehorning players IMO because Sons our best striker and Werner our best left winger, but Richarlison playing means Son gets moved out wide, I don't think he is good out there though. Johnson v Deki is more what you like, but on form and Pace I take Johnson now

I think it's

---Son------Richarlison----Kulu

That gives us a blend of pace, finishing, aerial, mobility, power and creativity.

But it really depends on the opposition.

To me your front 3 would be incredible against a team who plays a high line against us, but would offer very little against a low block (I think we really missed Richarlison's in-the-box movement and bustle for that on Saturday).

So it's maybe not a bad thing to not have a clear first choice trio.

 

[Baleforce]

I agree with GB, depends on the opponent, I wouldn’t necessarily always play a front three either.

If it is a three, with the current personnel, it should include Richy.

 

[Lemonade Money]

I think it's

---Son------Richarlison----Kulu

That gives us a blend of pace, finishing, aerial, mobility, power and creativity.

But it really depends on the opposition.

To me your front 3 would be incredible against a team who plays a high line against us, but would offer very little against a low block (I think we really missed Richarlison's in-the-box movement and bustle for that on Saturday).

So it's maybe not a bad thing to not have a clear first choice trio.

Couldn't disagree more with Son, he offers no creativity from the left against a low block, let alone protecting the full back.

For me at the moment it's any four from the options below, depending on who's fit and in form:

Son/Richy
Richy/Werner..................... .Kului/Johnson
Maddison/Kulu​