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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
chancer
Gudni Bergsson
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I love your post, but I think you are really wrong here.
Yes, Eriksen is playing in the middle a lot, but:
1. He is starting from the left, and that is still his main action area (see heat maps below)
2. He is consistently switching around not only with whoever is in the middle, but also with Lennon on the right and Ade/Kane from up front, meaning it's true he's not pure left and nothing else, but what that highlights is precisely the point that we are really fluid in attack at the moment.
You are spot on to say this fluidity didn't happen under AVB, but I think evidence shows that is one of the key tactical changes Sherwood has brought in. That fluidity of the front 4/5.
No. That diagram should have Chadli, Lennon, Kane or Ade on the left if that's where Eriksen is at any given point in the game. Look at the Heat Maps below for the Stoke game and you'll see this: Eriksen, Chadli, Lennon, Kane and Ade ALL spent time both on the left and in the middle (Eriksen's main patch is left, not centre, in these heat maps, and his periods in the middle are clearly being covered on the left by other players.) Eriksen also spent time on the right, as did Kane, Ade, Pauli, etc. as Lennon switched to middle/left.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/matchzone/index.html#s2013-c8-m695257
In our defeat at Liverpool - often cited as the pinnacle of our "wide open" shambles - they had 5 shots on target and scored 4. They had 5 shots inside the box to our 7. None of their goals came from a lack of a DM being there (not even the Cutinho goal because we had a bank of 4 right in front of him when he shot, so bodies weren't the issue). They had 11 shots in total, we had 15, with 6 of their 11 outside the box. None of those stats show that a DM was the problem that day, nor this alleged wide openness we have.
Stats: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/matchzone/index.html#s2013-c8-m695214
So yeah, I think this obsession with us being wide open is really overblown. I 100% agree that that obsession is even sillier against weaker teams.
I love your post, but I think you are really wrong here.
Yes, Eriksen is playing in the middle a lot, but:
1. He is starting from the left, and that is still his main action area (see heat maps below)
2. He is consistently switching around not only with whoever is in the middle, but also with Lennon on the right and Ade/Kane from up front, meaning it's true he's not pure left and nothing else, but what that highlights is precisely the point that we are really fluid in attack at the moment.
You are spot on to say this fluidity didn't happen under AVB, but I think evidence shows that is one of the key tactical changes Sherwood has brought in. That fluidity of the front 4/5.
No. That diagram should have Chadli, Lennon, Kane or Ade on the left if that's where Eriksen is at any given point in the game. Look at the Heat Maps below for the Stoke game and you'll see this: Eriksen, Chadli, Lennon, Kane and Ade ALL spent time both on the left and in the middle (Eriksen's main patch is left, not centre, in these heat maps, and his periods in the middle are clearly being covered on the left by other players.) Eriksen also spent time on the right, as did Kane, Ade, Pauli, etc. as Lennon switched to middle/left.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/matchzone/index.html#s2013-c8-m695257
In our defeat at Liverpool - often cited as the pinnacle of our "wide open" shambles - they had 5 shots on target and scored 4. They had 5 shots inside the box to our 7. None of their goals came from a lack of a DM being there (not even the Cutinho goal because we had a bank of 4 right in front of him when he shot, so bodies weren't the issue). They had 11 shots in total, we had 15, with 6 of their 11 outside the box. None of those stats show that a DM was the problem that day, nor this alleged wide openness we have.
Stats: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/matchzone/index.html#s2013-c8-m695214
So yeah, I think this obsession with us being wide open is really overblown. I 100% agree that that obsession is even sillier against weaker teams.
metalgear
Luka Modric
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/premier-le...ies_but_carroll_could_be_the_answer_1_3577910
another interview that showcases sherwoods management ideas. this time its about our midfield players.
http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/premier-le...ies_but_carroll_could_be_the_answer_1_3577910
another interview that showcases sherwoods management ideas. this time its about our midfield players.
Cochise
Steve Carr
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Firstly I wasn't talking about the Stoke game as I have only watched the first 30 minutes of the match, but more over what I can pull from the memory banks of our recent matches. Basically an impression of our style of play.
With regards to Eriksen, I hadn't seen the heat maps so fair play, but my point does stand that even Sherwood admits his best work is done from the middle. I think what I'm getting at is that we should be able to create the fluidity with just the midfield three without neglecting the left flank. We look unbalanced and it is a worry when we do seem to play with both full backs high and no defensive screen. We do look fluid at times but at others it just un ravels and we look slightly clueless. It just feels and looks ad hoc to me, almost a half backed strategy with the emphasis being on the players own improvisation.
The diagram is the best way I could put it with just lines and names. As I said I see a lot of movement between the front lot but if we want to talk about zones then it's usually (or has been of late) a combination of Ade, Kane and Eriksen interchanging with Rose overlapping on the left. I can't seem to word it and am going in circles but Eriksen is always looking for the spaces around the edge of the box in the "playmaker" area's. The movement of the others creates the space for him.
Seen a fair few games all season where have looked wide open Chancer. I'm not bothered as much by the **** ups from Naughton et al in our games vs WBA, Southampton and Chelsea recently but the times when even against average opposition we have been cut open and have been thankful for the profligacy of that teams striker/s.
As said I'm not saying he's not got a plan, just that what he seems to need are players we can't afford.
Thanks for that little tool BTW on the DM website, never knew it existed.
Firstly I wasn't talking about the Stoke game as I have only watched the first 30 minutes of the match, but more over what I can pull from the memory banks of our recent matches. Basically an impression of our style of play.
With regards to Eriksen, I hadn't seen the heat maps so fair play, but my point does stand that even Sherwood admits his best work is done from the middle. I think what I'm getting at is that we should be able to create the fluidity with just the midfield three without neglecting the left flank. We look unbalanced and it is a worry when we do seem to play with both full backs high and no defensive screen. We do look fluid at times but at others it just un ravels and we look slightly clueless. It just feels and looks ad hoc to me, almost a half backed strategy with the emphasis being on the players own improvisation.
The diagram is the best way I could put it with just lines and names. As I said I see a lot of movement between the front lot but if we want to talk about zones then it's usually (or has been of late) a combination of Ade, Kane and Eriksen interchanging with Rose overlapping on the left. I can't seem to word it and am going in circles but Eriksen is always looking for the spaces around the edge of the box in the "playmaker" area's. The movement of the others creates the space for him.
Seen a fair few games all season where have looked wide open Chancer. I'm not bothered as much by the **** ups from Naughton et al in our games vs WBA, Southampton and Chelsea recently but the times when even against average opposition we have been cut open and have been thankful for the profligacy of that teams striker/s.
As said I'm not saying he's not got a plan, just that what he seems to need are players we can't afford.
Thanks for that little tool BTW on the DM website, never knew it existed.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I think that Sherwood's plan is to make it until the end of the season, receive a big pay off and look for his next job.
With regards to systems/formations, I don't think that Tim has a preference and if he had the job long term would alter it based on who was available and who we were playing.
The 4-4-2 that he is playing at the moment is not dramatically different in shape to the 4-2-3-1 which he played earlier in the season because one of Kane and Adebayor drops deep and both Eriksen and Lennon are cutting inside.
The one thing that we have learnt is that he prefers central midfielder who can move the ball quickly and does not see the need to play a defensive midfielder against teams that do not pose as much of an attacking threat.
I think that Sherwood's plan is to make it until the end of the season, receive a big pay off and look for his next job.
With regards to systems/formations, I don't think that Tim has a preference and if he had the job long term would alter it based on who was available and who we were playing.
The 4-4-2 that he is playing at the moment is not dramatically different in shape to the 4-2-3-1 which he played earlier in the season because one of Kane and Adebayor drops deep and both Eriksen and Lennon are cutting inside.
The one thing that we have learnt is that he prefers central midfielder who can move the ball quickly and does not see the need to play a defensive midfielder against teams that do not pose as much of an attacking threat.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/nov/05/les-ferdinand-tottenham-hotspur
http://www.espnfc.com/columns/story?id=711098&cc=5901
[URL="http://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/3991/premier-league/2013/12/17/4483914/sherwood-given-opportunity-to-become-permanent-tottenham?ICID=HP_HN_1"]http://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/3991/premier-league/2013/12/17/4483914/sherwood-given-opportunity-to-become-permanent-tottenham?ICID=HP_HN_1
…lots more links. You get the idea though. Striker coach until Sherwood came into the hot seat, whence he was upgraded. What has repeatedly cost us the past few seasons? Goals...
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2008/nov/05/les-ferdinand-tottenham-hotspur
http://www.espnfc.com/columns/story?id=711098&cc=5901
[URL="http://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/3991/premier-league/2013/12/17/4483914/sherwood-given-opportunity-to-become-permanent-tottenham?ICID=HP_HN_1"]http://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/3991/premier-league/2013/12/17/4483914/sherwood-given-opportunity-to-become-permanent-tottenham?ICID=HP_HN_1
…lots more links. You get the idea though. Striker coach until Sherwood came into the hot seat, whence he was upgraded. What has repeatedly cost us the past few seasons? Goals...
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
He was a junior coach under Redknapp and had no involvement in the first team under AVB. If he is getting the blame for the barren periods presumably he gets the credit for Ade's good season and a half
He was a junior coach under Redknapp and had no involvement in the first team under AVB. If he is getting the blame for the barren periods presumably he gets the credit for Ade's good season and a half
THFC6061
Paul Robinson
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Since Sherwood's appointment, only Emirates Marketing Project (46) and Liverpool (57) have scored more Premier League goals than Spurs (37).
Since Sherwood's appointment, only Emirates Marketing Project (46) and Liverpool (57) have scored more Premier League goals than Spurs (37).
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I hate Sherwood's attitude and the things he says in his press conferences and I still don't think he's experienced enough for us, but the idea that he's even doing some kind of bad job with the playing staff and the idea that he somehow favours English work-horse players, just isn't justifiable by any evidence:
*Sherwood immediately reinstated Eriksen and Lamela to the team after AVB left, neither of whom have British passports. He later reinstated Chadli, who is about as English as Stella Artois.
*Sherwood has not picked Townsend even after his return to injury, preferring Chadli and Eriksen, neither of whom have British passports.
*Sherwood has played Lennon consistently, but that's because pace is important in the Premiership and he's the only midfield or forward player we have with the pure lightning pace that scares Premiership defences.
*Sherwood's played Kane, but only because by all accounts he was a beast in training and Soldado was flopping continuously on the pitch. Kane scored, then kept on scoring and playing well so he deserves to keep his place.
*Sherwood also promoted Bentaleb, a French Algerian, but this is ignored, because it doesn't fit in with Sherwood's "English lads only" image some are trying to build.
I hate Sherwood's attitude and the things he says in his press conferences and I still don't think he's experienced enough for us, but the idea that he's even doing some kind of bad job with the playing staff and the idea that he somehow favours English work-horse players, just isn't justifiable by any evidence:
*Sherwood immediately reinstated Eriksen and Lamela to the team after AVB left, neither of whom have British passports. He later reinstated Chadli, who is about as English as Stella Artois.
*Sherwood has not picked Townsend even after his return to injury, preferring Chadli and Eriksen, neither of whom have British passports.
*Sherwood has played Lennon consistently, but that's because pace is important in the Premiership and he's the only midfield or forward player we have with the pure lightning pace that scares Premiership defences.
*Sherwood's played Kane, but only because by all accounts he was a beast in training and Soldado was flopping continuously on the pitch. Kane scored, then kept on scoring and playing well so he deserves to keep his place.
*Sherwood also promoted Bentaleb, a French Algerian, but this is ignored, because it doesn't fit in with Sherwood's "English lads only" image some are trying to build.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I also cannot see much evidence for a future Sherwood transfer policy favouring older players. If anything the opposite looks to be true.
I also cannot see much evidence for a future Sherwood transfer policy favouring older players. If anything the opposite looks to be true.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Very good post again NWND, I agree fully.
I still don't want Sherwood to stay and I think some of the things he does showcases just how inexperienced he is at this level and we should be aiming higher. But some of the criticism aimed at him seems unreasonable.
Although I think that partly just a result of people thinking that he's gone and being frustrated about the season not being over yet.
Very good post again NWND, I agree fully.
I still don't want Sherwood to stay and I think some of the things he does showcases just how inexperienced he is at this level and we should be aiming higher. But some of the criticism aimed at him seems unreasonable.
Although I think that partly just a result of people thinking that he's gone and being frustrated about the season not being over yet.
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
Since Sherwood's appointment there have been no (0) world wars. Let's give him a Nobel Peace Prize.
Since Sherwood's appointment there have been no (0) world wars. Let's give him a Nobel Peace Prize.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I wouldn't rule it out, he's probably done about as much for world peace as Obama had when he got it and at least he's not a wanted war criminal so he would be a step up on some of the previous winners...
I wouldn't rule it out, he's probably done about as much for world peace as Obama had when he got it and at least he's not a wanted war criminal so he would be a step up on some of the previous winners...
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I seem to remember making a similar argument when Obama was awarded it - if memory serves the correct response to that argument is:
I seem to remember making a similar argument when Obama was awarded it - if memory serves the correct response to that argument is:
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
:lol:
:lol:
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
From what I can see, Sherwood has pretty fairly and consistently picked players based on nothing other than form.
From what I can see, Sherwood has pretty fairly and consistently picked players based on nothing other than form.
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
You are missing an opportunity to blame him for the unrest in Ukraine
You are missing an opportunity to blame him for the unrest in Ukraine
milo
Jack L. Jones
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
If I thought he could spell Ukraine I would
You are missing an opportunity to blame him for the unrest in Ukraine
If I thought he could spell Ukraine I would
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach
I don't think that is fair at all.....
Firstly on numerous occasions Sherwood has stated how good Lloris is and that he is one of the best keepers in the World, so it's clear he doesn't dream about replacing him.
I think you then have 2 of his preferred back four right with Kyle Walker and Ashley Cole.... but surely you cannot dispute that having Ashley Cole at left back would be a MASSIVE improvement on having Danny Rose there?
Regarding Lescott, while I would happily take him as one of our centre halves, I don't think he is a player that Sherwood wants. Lescott is out of contract in the Summer, was touted around on loan in January and was quite close to joining West Ham with us not getting involved at any time. Had Sherwood "been dreaming" about having Lescott in his team then he would've got him on loan in January. Rio Ferdinand I won't even bother commenting on.
In midfield Sherwood has stated that he doesn't see the need for defensive midfielders and then you have gone and picked two of them.... Sherwood has also continually picked (and praised) Ericksen and yet you leave him out of his 'dream team' completely.
I do remember Sherwood mentioning Gareth Barry as being a good signing for Everton - and had Sherwood been in seat at the start of the season it's possible he would've tried to bring in Barry instead of Capoue. With hindsight I think this would've been a good thing as, from what I've seen, Barry is clearly a better player than Capoue.
Up front it is clear that Sherwood rates Adebayor and rightly so in my opinion. On form he is probably the best centre forward we could hope to have at this stage and, just as Harry did, Sherwood has managed to get Ade to display that form. He deserves his place as first choice pick up front in our team I think. Sherwood's picking of Harry Kane to play recently I think is mainly because he hasn't got many other options. Soldado has been.... for want of a better word.... sh!t and Kane is a young player who shows promise for the future so is worth a go - in just a few games he has produced more goals Soldado has all season (excluding penalties)
None of us really know what players Sherwood would go for in the Summer. From his team selections this season we have seen him select teams based on form rather than price tag or reputation and we have also seen Sherwood not being afraid to select a player from the under 21s. From what I have seen of the type of football Sherwood has tried to get Spurs playing, I think the players that he would've wanted to bring in this Summer would've been mobile and had good, quick, passing ability.
I don't think that is fair at all.....
Firstly on numerous occasions Sherwood has stated how good Lloris is and that he is one of the best keepers in the World, so it's clear he doesn't dream about replacing him.
I think you then have 2 of his preferred back four right with Kyle Walker and Ashley Cole.... but surely you cannot dispute that having Ashley Cole at left back would be a MASSIVE improvement on having Danny Rose there?
Regarding Lescott, while I would happily take him as one of our centre halves, I don't think he is a player that Sherwood wants. Lescott is out of contract in the Summer, was touted around on loan in January and was quite close to joining West Ham with us not getting involved at any time. Had Sherwood "been dreaming" about having Lescott in his team then he would've got him on loan in January. Rio Ferdinand I won't even bother commenting on.
In midfield Sherwood has stated that he doesn't see the need for defensive midfielders and then you have gone and picked two of them.... Sherwood has also continually picked (and praised) Ericksen and yet you leave him out of his 'dream team' completely.
I do remember Sherwood mentioning Gareth Barry as being a good signing for Everton - and had Sherwood been in seat at the start of the season it's possible he would've tried to bring in Barry instead of Capoue. With hindsight I think this would've been a good thing as, from what I've seen, Barry is clearly a better player than Capoue.
Up front it is clear that Sherwood rates Adebayor and rightly so in my opinion. On form he is probably the best centre forward we could hope to have at this stage and, just as Harry did, Sherwood has managed to get Ade to display that form. He deserves his place as first choice pick up front in our team I think. Sherwood's picking of Harry Kane to play recently I think is mainly because he hasn't got many other options. Soldado has been.... for want of a better word.... sh!t and Kane is a young player who shows promise for the future so is worth a go - in just a few games he has produced more goals Soldado has all season (excluding penalties)
None of us really know what players Sherwood would go for in the Summer. From his team selections this season we have seen him select teams based on form rather than price tag or reputation and we have also seen Sherwood not being afraid to select a player from the under 21s. From what I have seen of the type of football Sherwood has tried to get Spurs playing, I think the players that he would've wanted to bring in this Summer would've been mobile and had good, quick, passing ability.
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