Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I wouldn't be gutted if Sherwood stayed. The back four needs work, but Kaboul will be healthier. Him, Walker and Vertonghen and a proper LB and there's a good start. Plus a chance to get everyone on the same page from the start of a season.

Also, gotta love the fact that every post-match managerial interview or training ground media chat is delivered with a proper ****ney accent. Somehow, that just sounds so right with Spurs.

That's probably one of the, if not the, main positives. Though it was better with Redknapp with all his flaws

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We want our Spurs teams to battle against those with more financial muscle etc than us don't we?

TS is not that man to do it; Clearly not on results and also not mentally (Exhibit A: "I decoded to sit in the stands because there was no way we had a chance to beat Liverpool, they were always going to be technically superior to us anyway

Ill admit the Pool game was perfection and I wasnt impressed!

To answer your first & excellent question...Yes!

we need a top class player recruitment structure....Broomfield & Franco?
we have world class training facilities
An excellent youth set-up with the talent required
A coach who thinks of the clubs long term gains rather than his short term ones....ie playing youth!

on that last point no-one can deny Tim hasnt given youth a chance, and you could argue developing Kane & Bentaleb is in our long term interest....rather than playing others without any affinity to the club just using us as a stepping stone...though I accept thats not always a given with the likes of Campbell.

just picture a few years time....we win some epic matches which Kane & Bentaleb are at the centre of!!! we will all give them 9 in player ratings and rave about how good they are without maybe appreciating the man who started them on their journey!!! just hypothetical of course...but those two COULD be big players for us...and that would be down to Tim.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Indeed, do you thing he/the board would like the answers that TS would give??
Have we seen enough from the last 4/5 months to come to a good/bad conclusion (from TS's perspective)??

well if he's as stupid as most think he is then at least levy will know his answers are honest albeit rough as a dogs bum bum!
he wouldnt be intelligent enough to have a secret agenda would he?

im sure Levy was very impressed when AVB said he was happy to work with said tools at his disposal only to demand Moutinho, Hulk at the first meeting

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Indeed, do you thing he/the board would like the answers that TS would give??
Have we seen enough from the last 4/5 months to come to a good/bad conclusion (from TS's perspective)??

To be honest I dont think we have

positives are there outscoring arsenal and chelsea in his prem games in charge bringing in youth players, playing as an attacking unit, ie heat maps provided by chancer shows that our attacking players are moving about.... scoring 3 goals or more in 8 of his 19 games (dude that really is something very impressive)

negatives are there also

bad no shocking start to games, mad sh it he says and gets up to, defensive frailties, and individual mistakes by players not been rectified

if we can get someone who is obviously an upgrade then yeah we should do it, but David Moyes hell no!!! but the thing is outside of those that I dont think would come here, Im not sure/dont want any of the names mentioned... in fairness rafa would be another good shout but again why would he come.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ill admit the Pool game was perfection and I wasnt impressed!

To answer your first & excellent question...Yes!

we need a top class player recruitment structure....Broomfield & Franco?
we have world class training facilities
An excellent youth set-up with the talent required
A coach who thinks of the clubs long term gains rather than his short term ones....ie playing youth!

on that last point no-one can deny Tim hasnt given youth a chance, and you could argue developing Kane & Bentaleb is in our long term interest....rather than playing others without any affinity to the club just using us as a stepping stone...though I accept thats not always a given with the likes of Campbell.

just picture a few years time....we win some epic matches which Kane & Bentaleb are at the centre of!!! we will all give them 9 in player ratings and rave about how good they are without maybe appreciating the man who started them on their journey!!! just hypothetical of course...but those two COULD be big players for us...and that would be down to Tim.

Hhmmmmm.....picturing it indeed...what if they end up like O'Hara or Livermore?? Just saying8-[

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

well if he's as stupid as most think he is then at least levy will know his answers are honest albeit rough as a dogs bum bum!
he wouldnt be intelligent enough to have a secret agenda would he?

im sure Levy was very impressed when AVB said he was happy to work with said tools at his disposal only to demand Moutinho, Hulk at the first meeting

Debatable

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Hhmmmmm.....picturing it indeed...what if they end up like O'Hara or Livermore?? Just saying8-[

Who knows! but when you are a club of our stature developing youth is a must!!! we simply cant compete with the likes of Chelsea or City for the top players...

that means we need to develop and make very savvy purchases under the bigger boys noses...

you know it makes sense so stop arguing because I want to go to bed!

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

We want our Spurs teams to battle against those with more financial muscle etc than us don't we?

TS is not that man to do it; Clearly not on results and also not mentally (Exhibit A: "I decoded to sit in the stands because there was no way we had a chance to beat Liverpool, they were always going to be technically superior to us anyway")

I ask anyone to find a club who are trying to challenge and get his team to puch above its weight who has EVER had a manager say and do what TS did at Anfield.

He talks the talk, but is a hypocrite as he is as much mentally weak and a coward as any of our players who we might have accused of such in the PL era.

I think/ hope you are paraphraising there/ montaging different quotes together.... but yeah that **** he got up to at Liverpool was beyond farce..... and that does worry me.

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Debatable

So you think Timbo is stupid & a liar.....jeez thats not a good combo!

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To be honest I dont think we have

positives are there outscoring arsenal and chelsea in his prem games in charge bringing in youth players, playing as an attacking unit, ie heat maps provided by chancer shows that our attacking players are moving about.... scoring 3 goals or more in 8 of his 19 games (dude that really is something very impressive)

negatives are there also

bad no shocking start to games, mad sh it he says and gets up to, defensive frailties, and individual mistakes by players not been rectified

if we can get someone who is obviously an upgrade then yeah we should do it, but David Moyes hell no!!! but the thing is outside of those that I dont think would come here, Im not sure/dont want any of the names mentioned... in fairness rafa would be another good shout but again why would he come.

Do Arsenal/Chelski care? How about outscoring directly in the games we play against them? Or scoring at all in the games we play against them?
Those heat maps of our attacking movement: have we got any vs sides that are in the top 4 and challenging? Easy to have them vs relegation fodder; well at least that's not why we hire managers imo.
Also, any heat maps that show our defensive solidity (or lack of).

If the barometer for whether TS gets the job is "we scored lots against Sunderland, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Fulham" we may as well get Jol back. Or even Ardiles for that matter.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Who knows! but when you are a club of our stature developing youth is a must!!! we simply cant compete with the likes of Chelsea or City for the top players...

that means we need to develop and make very savvy purchases under the bigger boys noses...

you know it makes sense so stop arguing because I want to go to bed!

I agree our club need to be doing this and doing it well! I disagree that TS is the one that can do it

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So you think Timbo is stupid & a liar.....jeez thats not a good combo!

No it isn't, though I'm more talking about the liar part here tbf

 

[Nigeyman]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree our club need to be doing this and doing it well! I disagree that TS is the one that can do it

GIT!

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I noticed in the interview posted in the Sandro fread, that Sherwood points out the fact that if we win our final free games, we finish the season wif 72 points and tie our season record for most points. I'd forgotten about that.

You can't help but wonder what's really in store for Sherwood with Spurs if he hits that target. In complete contrast to what's happening at ManU with Moyes or Saudi Sportswashing Machine with Par Dieu, it suggest Sherwood has the backing of his squad and that they're happy to be playing for him.

For all the hassle he gets for benching Sandro or taking the mickey with Lamela, he has done a good job reviving Adebayor, he's given Bentaleb and Kane opportunities they taken great advantage of, and he hasn't publicly dumped all over Soldado for not fully living up to expectations.

If someone like Eriksen says he wants to keep playing for Sherwood, it would put Levy in a bit of a dilemma. I wouldn't be shocked if he stays.

 

[Cochise]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If we look at this purely from a footballing stance, Sherwood has his merits. Our attacking play has shown some promising signs, but there are quite a few more significant areas on the pitch where I see problems that still haven't been addressed. From an attacking stand point I still think we play too many long balls forward, Kaboul has been doing an aweful lot of it lately and it's because we don't have enough movement in the middle of the pitch. We do knock it around well enough once we have a team pinned back but against teams who press well we look desperate.

Defensively we look poor and in need of help. Sherwood has had time to work on this and without meaning to cause a cataclysmic debate, Pulis has in the same amount of time achieved wonders with the Palace back line with a group of players whom most would regard as worse than what we have. I still think his comments about DM's are naive as he would effectively require a well drilled group of 2-3 Yaya Toure's to do all the jobs. I'm not saying he's wrong about developing players who cannot do anything more than tackle but to protect a back line where the teams fullbacks are required to push forward (and ours are) someone needs to take responsibilty of helping the centre halves and it's worthwhile having someone who can identify threats quickly (the specialised DM).

I do like the idea of promoting the youth players and in all honesty would prefer to see 6-7 included in the first team squad, but not just because they are Tottenham, they need to be good enough first. If the club came out and supported Sherwood stating that we were going to rebuild for a year or two and had Sherwood learned to keep his mouth shut then I'd be willing to give him time, but from all I can see he wants to rip out a lot of what we already have and start again. To cancel one major overhaul before it has started (most of those purchases have barely settled in) at the behest of a man with little experience is too big a risk for me to be comfortable with.

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

If we look at this purely from a footballing stance, Sherwood has his merits. Our attacking play has shown some promising signs, but there are quite a few more significant areas on the pitch where I see problems that still haven't been addressed. From an attacking stand point I still think we play too many long balls forward, Kaboul has been doing an aweful lot of it lately and it's because we don't have enough movement in the middle of the pitch. We do knock it around well enough once we have a team pinned back but against teams who press well we look desperate.

Defensively we look poor and in need of help. Sherwood has had time to work on this and without meaning to cause a cataclysmic debate, Pulis has in the same amount of time achieved wonders with the Palace back line with a group of players whom most would regard as worse than what we have. I still think his comments about DM's are naive as he would effectively require a well drilled group of 2-3 Yaya Toure's to do all the jobs. I'm not saying he's wrong about developing players who cannot do anything more than tackle but to protect a back line where the teams fullbacks are required to push forward (and ours are) someone needs to take responsibilty of helping the centre halves and it's worthwhile having someone who can identify threats quickly (the specialised DM).

I do like the idea of promoting the youth players and in all honesty would prefer to see 6-7 included in the first team squad, but not just because they are Tottenham, they need to be good enough first. If the club came out and supported Sherwood stating that we were going to rebuild for a year or two and had Sherwood learned to keep his mouth shut then I'd be willing to give him time, but from all I can see he wants to rip out a lot of what we already have and start again. To cancel one major overhaul before it has started (most of those purchases have barely settled in) at the behest of a man with little experience is too big a risk for me to be comfortable with.

good post, and if he does want to rip things apart and start again then im out, but more importantly so would levy be.

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Do Arsenal/Chelski care? How about outscoring directly in the games we play against them? Or scoring at all in the games we play against them?
Those heat maps of our attacking movement: have we got any vs sides that are in the top 4 and challenging? Easy to have them vs relegation fodder; well at least that's not why we hire managers imo.
Also, any heat maps that show our defensive solidity (or lack of).

If the barometer for whether TS gets the job is "we scored lots against Sunderland, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Fulham" we may as well get Jol back. Or even Ardiles for that matter.

Dude read the post again I pointed out positives and negatives.... and yeah his results against the top four have been poor... but so were AVBs this season (infact AVBs results against the Top 10 were shocking) so why should have Avb be given time to sort out his misfiring attack but Tim no time to sort out his wayward defense?

 

[DTA]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I noticed in the interview posted in the Sandro fread, that Sherwood points out the fact that if we win our final free games, we finish the season wif 72 points and tie our season record for most points. I'd forgotten about that.

You can't help but wonder what's really in store for Sherwood with Spurs if he hits that target. In complete contrast to what's happening at ManU with Moyes or Saudi Sportswashing Machine with Par Dieu, it suggest Sherwood has the backing of his squad and that they're happy to be playing for him.

For all the hassle he gets for benching Sandro or taking the mickey with Lamela, he has done a good job reviving Adebayor, he's given Bentaleb and Kane opportunities they taken great advantage of, and he hasn't publicly dumped all over Soldado for not fully living up to expectations.

If someone like Eriksen says he wants to keep playing for Sherwood, it would put Levy in a bit of a dilemma. I wouldn't be shocked if he stays.

good points and to add to this, Capoue and paulinho have both come back into the team after being dropped and talked about negatively by sherwood.... this shows that he is open to people winning their place back in the side... but im sure that will be spun into..... he cant make up his mind/pressure was put on him etc...... Although I dont like all this airing the dirty laundry in public that he seems to be keen on.........

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Sherwood played at a time when the league, and the game, was transitioning from simpler and less costly times into what we have now. It wasn't that long ago and he's straddled that time frame as he's become a manager and can probably still channel much of what he felt as a player. Players can't fool one another. They see, hear and feel everything going on within a club and surely let one another know if something or someone isn't going about their business properly. They know when someone has earned a right to play and when someone is dogging it. Sherwood is probably more attuned to that than older managers who are both more diplomatic and possibly didn't play at the level Sherwood did.

The result is a manager with a more direct approach in everything he does. He doesn't hold back what he thinks or feels and I don't think he has a taste for bullsh!t. I think the media absolutely love this. It's a refreshing break from the oblique utterances and mystic mumbo-jumbo that we hear from coaches for whom English is a second language. I say that fully acknowledging my enjoyment of phrases like 'immense dimensionality' and 'solidification'.

 

[sc25]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I said this as a throw away comment in the Fulham rating thread that Tim team has scored 3 goals more times in his 19 games in charge then AVB did in 18 months, wasn't sure if it is true and said as much.... but just checked now and it actually is.... more interesting than just the AVB comparison is the fact that in his 19 prem games in charge his team has actually scored 3 goals or more in 8 of those games thats almost half..... wait.... what?
To score 3 goals or more in 19 games is impressive, especially when comparing it to Chelsea and arsenal.
Could he not just need time to sort the frailties?
Is he really as bad as a manger as he is being made out to be?

No, but don't introduce logic and spoil the party

Problem is, once certain fans back themselves in a corner, he has no way out. Even if he does well, they will still hate him. Maybe even more so...for proving them wrong (on a meaningless internet message board). Saturdays must be tough. Hope we lose? Hope we don't score? I dunno, but glad I'm not part of that. Whatever happens, I imagine his days are numbered here. A bad run of form should do it. And forward and onward we shall go. Can't think of another rookie manager thrown in mid-season and tasked with getting Top4. You couldn't make it up. And a year ago people now slating Moyes were saying we missed the boat by not poaching him from Everton. Ah well, time for pints and pies, and then home by the fire with pipe and slippers