Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not all great managers have a system that they use all the time.

Certainly Rodgers and Wenger have systems, and they skin the cat very well with them. AVB has a system too, albeit of less obvious effectiveness.

But Mourinho doesn't have a fixed system. He gets by on man-management, ruthless professionalism, very smart coaches and expert use of football pragmatism depending on opponent/circumstances.

SAF also went long periods when the system changed a lot and was less important than dynamism around the pitch. In his great sides of the 90's the fluidity was amazing. I don't think Ancelotti has a system either, and Pep seems to get by on total football, which is less of a system and more of a philosophy (handed down I presume from Cruyff and his coaches).

 

[mudshark]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Anyone heard a rumour about him punching Aaron Lennon after the game last night??

They're getting more diminutive with every report. It'll be José Dominguez next, who only popped his tiny head round the door to say hello to his old muckers Tim and Les.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Surely the point being made is simply that players from abroad will likely improve after the first 6 months, no matter who the manager is then, because they will have settled. But because they were likely to have been below their optimum level within that first 6 months, there's no real way of knowing whether it was down to 'poor management' or whether it was simply the expected adjustment period anyway.

As per usual, someone else is able to put my thoughts into words far better than I could.

So essentially the above is my response, just take away some eloquence and clarity so it sounds like me.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Surely the point being made is simply that players from abroad will likely improve after the first 6 months, no matter who the manager is then, because they will have settled. But because they were likely to have been below their optimum level within that first 6 months, there's no real way of knowing whether it was down to 'poor management' or whether it was simply the expected adjustment period anyway.

I know the point being made that it normally takes players from abroad six months to settle. In fact there is plenty if evidence that it takes at least a season for a full adjustment to be made. However, I do dispute that how a player is managed in the crucial first six months has absolutely no bearing on their settling in to a new club and new country.

I think AVB managed this process poorly.

Soldado - left isolated and alone up front with two inverted wingers and little creativity in midfield. Lost his confidence. Only started to show signs of improvement when Ade and Eriksen came in.

Paulinho - clearly fatigued after a hectic playing schedule. Thrown straight in playing virtually every game and not introduced slowly after a much needed rest.

Eriksen - the manager clearly preferred big beasts in midfield. Given a peripheral role, which clearly knocked his confidence. Improved enormously after TS came in and shoed faith in him.

Lamela - not given a chance. When he did have a half decent game in Europe, he was promptly ignored only to be brought back against City away. Developed a series of mystery injuries thereafter.

Capoue - not sure why we bought him. Has he settled?

Chadl - not sure why we bought him. Has he settled? Given more of a chance under TS and looks to be a bit better.

Chiriches - injured for long periods. Difficult to assess.

In the main, in my view the new signings have been badly managed in the first six months and haven't settled that well at all.

 

[RigorMortis]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I know the point being made that it normally takes players from abroad six months to settle. In fact there is plenty if evidence that it takes at least a season for a full adjustment to be made. However, I do dispute that how a player is managed in the crucial first six months has absolutely no bearing on their settling in to a new club and new country.

I think AVB managed this process poorly.

Soldado - left isolated and alone up front with two inverted wingers and little creativity in midfield. Lost his confidence. Only started to show signs of improvement when Ade and Eriksen came in.

Paulinho - clearly fatigued after a hectic playing schedule. Thrown straight in playing virtually every game and not introduced slowly after a much needed rest.

Eriksen - the manager clearly preferred big beasts in midfield. Given a peripheral role, which clearly knocked his confidence. Improved enormously after TS came in and shoed faith in him.

Lamela - not given a chance. When he did have a half decent game in Europe, he was promptly ignored only to be brought back against City away. Developed a series of mystery injuries thereafter.

Capoue - not sure why we bought him. Has he settled?

Chadl - not sure why we bought him. Has he settled? Given more of a chance under TS and looks to be a bit better.

Chiriches - injured for long periods. Difficult to assess.

In the main, in my view the new signings have been badly managed in the first six months and haven't settled that well at all.

"I am not shirking any responsibility. At 2-0, and the game going away at 3-0, I am going to learn more from my players from sitting up there rather than getting in trouble on the touchline."

You're defending a man who came out with this inane comment, who basically admits he doesn't have the ability to control himself on the touchline as a manager of a major high profile football club. And why, because you are obsessed with putting down our previous manager?


"I didn't watch the game [5-0 home defeat to Liverpool] back. I was too scared too. You don't learn anything from games like that."

You defend a man who said that, who basically admits to not trying to learn anything from our last game with the same opposition. You defend a man who just shrugs his shoulders despite the fact its statistically proven that 45% of our goals have come from individual errors, and he has failed to address it but simply shrugs his shoulders and goes "well not me guv"

You defend a man who called out his players at the start of a tough run in and then said it did no harm, well one win in five matches and another mauling means I beg to differ

You defend a man who called the previous incumbent out about capitulations but has overseen even more?

You defend a man who came out with a laughable oversimplification of football management and is now being found out.

You defend a man who is single headedly embarrassing the football club we support on a daily basis , after being given an unbelievable opportunity.

I admire your "heart, guts and passion" for all things Sherwood, but its laughable. I can only suspect that your agenda against our previous coach and proven his sacking was the correct decision is greater than your desire to see Tottenham Hotspur FC get back on her feet again.


Anyone who loves Tottenham Hotspur Football Club and wants to see us back on our feet will want Sherwood out. The man is an arrogant charlatan, with zero tactical awareness, zero consistency and zero ethics.

 

[markysimmo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Who would actually buy him if we put him on the transfer list ???

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not all great managers have a system that they use all the time.

Certainly Rodgers and Wenger have systems, and they skin the cat very well with them. AVB has a system too, albeit of less obvious effectiveness.

But Mourinho doesn't have a fixed system. He gets by on man-management, ruthless professionalism, very smart coaches and expert use of football pragmatism depending on opponent/circumstances.

SAF also went long periods when the system changed a lot and was less important than dynamism around the pitch. In his great sides of the 90's the fluidity was amazing. I don't think Ancelotti has a system either, and Pep seems to get by on total football, which is less of a system and more of a philosophy (handed down I presume from Cruyff and his coaches).

Philsophy, system, I think managers need something.

Jose has a system though. Maybe it is a philosophy, but he and AVB play largely the same way. AVB is more committed to the high line and possession, but both play lower tempo periods of games before exploding at the optimum moment. That's definitely been a feature of Chelsea's play this year. Not to mention the strong, quick, athletic team that he built in his first run. There was a definite system there.

 

[diego_maradona]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ouch

http://www.football365.com/winners-losers/9242181/W-L-Sherwood-Gets-Both-Barrels

Tim Sherwood
"I didn't watch the game [5-0 home defeat to Liverpool] back. I was too scared too. You don't learn anything from games like that."

I could write 3,000 words alone on why such a senseless, lazy and ill-advised attitude emasculates any potential that Tim Sherwood had or has to be a success at White Hart Lane, but all you needed to know about the manager's lack of tactical or strategical preparation came inside two minutes at Anfield. Raheem Sterling wriggled free, and was not tracked by left-back Danny Rose. Glen Johnson then surged up from right-back, a run not tracked by Christian Eriksen, and was able to cross the ball unpressured. Younes Kaboul, rather than clearing the ball long with his left foot, tried to do so with his right, got both feet caught in the ground and sent the ball into his own goal.

A total of 45% of the goals Spurs have conceded this season have been due to individual error or own goal. The occasional gaffe can be put down to individual shortcomings, but complaints over consistent mistakes should be laid at the door of the manager. You can't just keep shrugging your shoulders when stupid mistakes keep being made, because your job is to address that and effect a change.

Sherwood's insistence that his public rant at his players ("I think it's evident they're on my side and on the side of the club. My little rant has done them no harm") has since been emphatically disproven by just one win in five subsequent matches. If a coach is hoping to work on inspiration and respect alone, it makes little sense to weaken the impact by calling out players in such a manner.

There is little doubt that Andre Villas-Boas' tenure at White Hart Lane became untenable, but displays such as the one at Anfield only make Sherwood look a significantly worse option. Put simply, Villas-Boas had a plan that was not suitable to the talents of his squad, whilst Sherwood has no plan at all. In his six biggest games in charge (Arsenal (a), Arsenal (h), Benfica (h), Emirates Marketing Project (h), Chelsea (a) and Liverpool (a)), Sherwood's record is six defeats and 19 goals conceded. Top work.

"I like the defenders to defend, attackers to attack and the midfielders to do a bit of both. It's a simple game," was Sherwood's assessment upon taking over. It's a laughably simplistic assessment of management to match the manager's demeanor and seeming lack of ability. Sherwood is a charlatan who has been wonderfully exposed through his own bravado. Given an opportunity at a level higher than any novice for the last 20 years, the chance has been utterly undermined by an understandable lack of experience and a baffling sense of entitlement and 'I know best' mentality.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

"I am not shirking any responsibility. At 2-0, and the game going away at 3-0, I am going to learn more from my players from sitting up there rather than getting in trouble on the touchline."

You're defending a man who came out with this inane comment, who basically admits he doesn't have the ability to control himself on the touchline as a manager of a major high profile football club. And why, because you are obsessed with putting down our previous manager?


"I didn't watch the game [5-0 home defeat to Liverpool] back. I was too scared too. You don't learn anything from games like that."

You defend a man who said that, who basically admits to not trying to learn anything from our last game with the same opposition. You defend a man who just shrugs his shoulders despite the fact its statistically proven that 45% of our goals have come from individual errors, and he has failed to address it but simply shrugs his shoulders and goes "well not me guv"

You defend a man who called out his players at the start of a tough run in and then said it did no harm, well one win in five matches and another mauling means I beg to differ

You defend a man who called the previous incumbent out about capitulations but has overseen even more?

You defend a man who came out with a laughable oversimplification of football management and is now being found out.

You defend a man who is single headedly embarrassing the football club we support on a daily basis , after being given an unbelievable opportunity.

I admire your "heart, guts and passion" for all things Sherwood, but its laughable. I can only suspect that your agenda against our previous coach and proven his sacking was the correct decision is greater than your desire to see Tottenham Hotspur FC get back on her feet again.


Anyone who loves Tottenham Hotspur Football Club and wants to see us back on our feet will want Sherwood out. The man is an arrogant charlatan, with zero tactical awareness, zero consistency and zero ethics.

Stick. Wrong. End.

I am not defending TS for the sake of proving our previous head coach was a numpty. I am putting up the argument that it is unfair to judge ANY manager on 16 games. Particularly one that has inherited a **** stick. In the middle of a season. with a large and ever changing injury list. He may prove a useless ****. He may not. The criticism of people on here, particularly those who wanted him to fail from the outset , is unbelievable. No wonder the club is in turmoil. I doubt anyone could have been successful from that position.

 

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Ouch

http://www.football365.com/winners-losers/9242181/W-L-Sherwood-Gets-Both-Barrels

Brutal.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I know the point being made that it normally takes players from abroad six months to settle. In fact there is plenty if evidence that it takes at least a season for a full adjustment to be made. However, I do dispute that how a player is managed in the crucial first six months has absolutely no bearing on their settling in to a new club and new country.

I think AVB managed this process poorly.

Soldado - left isolated and alone up front with two inverted wingers and little creativity in midfield. Lost his confidence. Only started to show signs of improvement when Ade and Eriksen came in.

Paulinho - clearly fatigued after a hectic playing schedule. Thrown straight in playing virtually every game and not introduced slowly after a much needed rest.

Eriksen - the manager clearly preferred big beasts in midfield. Given a peripheral role, which clearly knocked his confidence. Improved enormously after TS came in and shoed faith in him.

Lamela - not given a chance. When he did have a half decent game in Europe, he was promptly ignored only to be brought back against City away. Developed a series of mystery injuries thereafter.

Capoue - not sure why we bought him. Has he settled?

Chadl - not sure why we bought him. Has he settled? Given more of a chance under TS and looks to be a bit better.

Chiriches - injured for long periods. Difficult to assess.

In the main, in my view the new signings have been badly managed in the first six months and haven't settled that well at all.

I'm not entirely convinced playing inverted wingers means that Soldado would never get chances. Creativity can still come from those wingers, plus crosses from full backs, plus Dembele etc breaking forward. I think it needed some working but had we played orthodox wingers on each side, we are basically losing goal threat from them. Orthodox wingers work best in a 4-4-2 when they have 2 men to aim for in the box, inverted wingers work best in a lone striker system when they are expected to score. AVB basically said to Soldado 'you are my man' so in terms of confidence, he was doing what he could. Soldado needed to adapt to the country and the system though and that would take time. We had some good games with it, we had others where chances were tough to come by. About what you'd expect with basically a hell of a lot of new players trying to settle into the club and the country.

Paulinho will have basically played a full season half way through ours, so it makes sense he's getting rest now. He was probably most well equipped fitness wise and sharpness wise to come in and play well, if not from a language or culture perspective yet. So he did reasonably well considering. Wasn't great, but showed glimpses. Again, about what you'd expect with so many different factors requiring his needing to settle.

Eriksen - played well against Norwich, played well against Cardiff. But AVB was operating a policy where we (apart from left back) had 2 good players for each position. He gave Defoe his chance in the West Ham game because Soldado wasn't firing, and he had played Eriksen from the start of the season. But following that West Ham game, Hotlby deserved a run. Eriksen would get his chance again when Holtby falters. I see no reason to think AVB likes 'big beasts'. He likes players high on teamwork.

Lamela - was always going to take a year at least. I don't think we will know the story of that City game for years, whose to say AVB wasn't being pressured from above to play the big money (Lamela) or big wages (Ade) signings or risk disagreements? Or maybe it was simply that Lamela had been at the club while others had been away for international week. Either way, if we accept that he will take a year to settle, why does a goal against some Moldovan team means he deserves to start ahead of an in-form Townsend against Saudi Sportswashing Machine? There's no telling how he would perform.

Capoue would have got games under AVB if not injured. More than under TS for sure.

Chadli had a fair few games under AVB and TS has only recently started playing him. Again, foreign guy, probably always going to be a squad player when everyone is fit, wasn't expecting fireworks.

I don't think AVB has particularly done anything wrong in terms of selection that stopped the players settling. We will never know from behind the scenes if he did anything from a man management perspective that stopped them, but considering it wasn't a real 'lost the dressing room' kind of sacking and more of a 'we can't work together anymore' parting of the ways with the Chairman, I kind of doubt that he did.

 

[mudshark]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not all great managers have a system that they use all the time.

Certainly Rodgers and Wenger have systems, and they skin the cat very well with them. AVB has a system too, albeit of less obvious effectiveness.

But Mourinho doesn't have a fixed system. He gets by on man-management, ruthless professionalism, very smart coaches and expert use of football pragmatism depending on opponent/circumstances.

SAF also went long periods when the system changed a lot and was less important than dynamism around the pitch. In his great sides of the 90's the fluidity was amazing. I don't think Ancelotti has a system either, and Pep seems to get by on total football, which is less of a system and more of a philosophy (handed down I presume from Cruyff and his coaches).

I think a key point here is that someone like Mourinho, with the ability to do without a rigid system and change things up on the fly has to know that he has the tools available to be able to do that, and will likely require complete control over the players he brings in. It turned sour for him the first time around at Cheat$ki when he didn't get that from Abramovitch (and it remains to be seen whether Roman will be able to keep his fingers permanently out of the pudding bowl now he's back there). Levy is another one who can't seem to stop interfering, and what's more, he appears to think the same sort of results Mourinho gets or that Ferguson got can somehow be achieved on a shoestring budget, comparatively speaking, if you can only find the right guy to put in place. I'm skeptical about that, to say the least, and I don't think Levy can continue to avoid his share of responsibility for the boom-and-bust failures we've endured since the Jol-Ramos fiasco. Sherwood may have been the only realistic option for us, given that AVB had had enough and walked out mid-season, but the road that led us to that point starts at Levy's door for me.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Stick. Wrong. End.

I am not defending TS for the sake of proving our previous head coach was a numpty. I am putting up the argument that it is unfair to judge ANY manager on 16 games. Particularly one that has inherited a **** stick. In the middle of a season. with a large and ever changing injury list. He may prove a useless ****. He may not. The criticism of people on here, particularly those who wanted him to fail from the outset , is unbelievable. No wonder the club is in turmoil. I doubt anyone could have been successful from that position.

I'm in the same boat as you mate. I think a lot of the abuse he gets on here is just plain unfair but really;

"I didn't watch the game [5-0 home defeat to Liverpool] back. I was too scared too. You don't learn anything from games like that."

This doesn't worry you???? It certainly does worry me if I'm honest. Like I said, I've defended him a fair bit on here, but he's not helped himself before, during or after the liverpool game.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I want this clown out of my club

This. And for good this time. If you're reading Daniel, please do this sooner rather than later. I'm sure Freund can do a job til the end of the season without sounding a complete c**k to the press.

 

[mudshark]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

You defend a man who is single headedly embarrassing the football club we support on a daily basis , after being given an unbelievable opportunity.

Zaphod, is that you?

 

[chancer]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm in the same boat as you mate. I think a lot of the abuse he gets on here is just plain unfair but really;

"I didn't watch the game [5-0 home defeat to Liverpool] back. I was too scared too. You don't learn anything from games like that."

This doesn't worry you???? It certainly does worry me if I'm honest. Like I said, I've defended him a fair bit on here, but he's not helped himself before, during or after the liverpool game.

He's right, he just shouldn't have said it out loud. A PR gaffe, not a tactical one.

 

[Rorschach]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Zaphod, is that you?

:lol:

 

[RigorMortis]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Stick. Wrong. End.

I am not defending TS for the sake of proving our previous head coach was a numpty. I am putting up the argument that it is unfair to judge ANY manager on 16 games. Particularly one that has inherited a **** stick. In the middle of a season. with a large and ever changing injury list. He may prove a useless ****. He may not. The criticism of people on here, particularly those who wanted him to fail from the outset , is unbelievable. No wonder the club is in turmoil. I doubt anyone could have been successful from that position.

It really looks like you are I;m afraid, I am not a consistent contributor but I have read your posts and you were consitently anti AVB, however his successor has done a worse job (IMO) yet you will aford him time yet his predecessor had to go?
Arguably with a much changed team and the loss of his best players he needed more than four months to implement his ideas, so your 18 months settling in period is pure guff.

However what defies beleif is how you can defend someone who clearly shows himself up as incompetent, what promise if any does Sherwood have?
Do you agree with his tactics?
His team selections?
The way he comes across in the media?

None of your points are salient, and you seem to be more intent on attacking the previous manager and proving that the descision to dispense with him is correct, rather than showing any evidence that Sherwood is the right man to take us forward.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

He's right, he just shouldn't have said it out loud. A PR gaffe, not a tactical one.

How in GHod's name is he right???

 

[sc25]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Soldado needed to adapt to the country and the system though and that would take time.

This notion about Soldado needing time and a season to adjust. Chelski signed Eto for only one season...so they must have figured he wouldn't need much time to settle. Eto had never played in the PL before. Just saying...