Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Biggest joke post of the year so far.](*,)

Thanks for giving me a laugh ( at you ), Scara

So what (in your clearly superior analysis) would be the difference between a well-managed player who hasn't settled yet, and a poorly managed player who has? How would you tell the difference?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

That I can believe. The punching, nah.

I don't think he has the backbone to punch a player.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Sherwood's note before the game apparently

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Seeing as you're addicted to the barrels now, who was it that gained our solitary point against the top 4? How has TS done?
Silly isn't it, but you took it there, being easily pleased by TS as you are.

We could make this more fun and compare low points under both. Each further humiliation under TS has happened with less excuses: yesterday we played a whole game with 11 men and played FAR WORSE than when AVB lost 5-0 in December (when we palyed a quarter with 10 men).

AVB showed FAR more in his first 6 months than the current manager. If you then say how 'turgid' things have turned out under AVB, could not TS plumb further depths if he gets as long?

So a point against Chelsea at home, when we were mullered in the second half and should have lost the game, is your idea of a solitary " triumph " under AVB.

Lets examine the other results under him again this season

Liverpool ( h )lost 0-5
Emirates Marketing Project (a) lost 0-6
Chelsea (h) drew 1-1
Arsenal (a) lost 0-1
Everton (a) drew 0-0
Man U ( h) drew 2-2
Soton -
Saudi Sportswashing Machine (h)lost 0-1
West ham ( h) lost 0-3

If that is what your idea of your professional manager "showing more", then I feel sorry for you ,,, and us.

AVB record PL 8 W 0 D 3 L 5

TS record PL 9 W 5 D 0 L 4

That is 15 points against 3 in TS favour against virtually the same opponents.

I know which I prefer.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So a point against Chelsea at home, when we were mullered in the second half and should have lost the game, is your idea of a solitary " triumph " under AVB.

Lets examine the other results under him again this season

Liverpool ( h )lost 0-5
Emirates Marketing Project (a) lost 0-6
Chelsea (h) drew 1-1
Arsenal (a) lost 0-1
Everton (a) drew 0-0
Man U ( h) drew 2-2
Soton -
Saudi Sportswashing Machine (h)lost 0-1
West ham ( h) lost 0-3

If that is what your idea of your professional manager "showing more", then I feel sorry for you ,,, and us.

AVB record PL 8 W 0 D 3 L 5

TS record PL 9 W 5 D 0 L 4

That is 15 points against 3 in TS favour against virtually the same opponents.

I know which I prefer.

As usual you're clutchijng straws and only read what you want to and quote this season, when I said AVB's first six months in charge of us period; Can't be arsed anymore i'll leave it to Scara and others to show you your straws. Let's se where we end up.

If we're 7th, no doubt you'll say how much of a roaring success TS has been and that he 'needs more time to show us his tactics and methods'.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So what (in your clearly superior analysis) would be the difference between a well-managed player who hasn't settled yet, and a poorly managed player who has? How would you tell the difference?

Do you really think Lamela, Eriksen, Capoue, Chiriches, Chadli Paulinho and Soldado were well managed in the first half of the season and that had AVB continued they would now all be "settled" and firing on all cylinders?


What evidence do you have for this assertion?

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

At the minute everton and liverpool have passed us this season,man ure could ovetake us so that puts us seventh,at the minute Saudi Sportswashing Machine are vying with southampton for 8th/9th spot ,at the minute southampton are playing much better than us,yeah we beat them 3-2 but it took a defensive slip,a lucky referee decision for us to come back to 2 all.

We had 89 minutes to score a against a very poor goon side,even paul merson said that that they were poor on that day and that was summed up at chelski the following week,we never looked like scoring. How can we blame sherwood,he's come in half way through a season,he tried to kick a few arses and ruffle a few feathers but that hasn't worked,because three or four of our players have switched off and ,don't care because they be off ,they know they've been tapped up plus there is a world cup around the corner.

I wonder if liverpool board will sack their manager or sell their best players because they want go a different way in how they run things..... of coarse they won't but we did,we sacked a manager because of various reasons with one he wanted to manage his own country,idiots.They sacked AVB and it was the board who used the term ,'project'when they appointed him,we be in no different place if he was in charge now,so why sack him or infact why employ him in the first place??

The board will appoint a high profile manager again,pay him 4/5 million,gets us excited again,get the season ticket money in and then we be fighting for fourth again,its just a cycle with levy and the board,offer us hope,use big words,give us promises blah blah frigging blah...........

This season Everton have overtaken us? Not being funny mate and I know currently they are ahead of us in the table, but even in the current mess we are in we have taken 4 points out of them and all their best players are on loan. There is more chance of us overhauling Arsenal and Everton to finish 4th than there is of Everton signing Lukaku and Delafleu permanently. Everton have had a great season under Martinez, but unless they get a change of ownership/big investment, they are hitting their ceiling currently.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

As usual you're clutchijng straws and only read what you want to and quote this season, when I said AVB's first six months in charge of us period; Can't be arsed anymore i'll leave it to Scara and others to show you your straws. Let's se where we end up.

If we're 7th, no doubt you'll say how much of a roaring success TS has been and that he 'needs more time to show us his tactics and methods'.

I know you don't like hard evidence produced against AVB. Sometimes the truth hurts.

And I said lets look at THIS SEASON. After the benefit of a full pre- season, a full squad of players to chose from and over £100 million spent on new players - at least some of whom he must have wanted. Rank bad management IMO .

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I love how 'beating a very good side' 1-0 in a scrappy game we hardly deserved a point is something you laud TS for but if it was a certain previous manager that had done that you would have called it 'turgid' :lol:

Especially as our 0-0 away draw at Goodison under AVB was a lot more impressive, as we totally dominated that game, yet didn't get the win we probably deserved. It was AVB's best performance of the season.

 

[NWND]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'd say AVB and Sherwood were equally as bad. Both are almost complete novices, at least AVB had some kind of track record in a mightily successful season in charge of Porto. At least AVB also has his coaching badges, so is actually qualified to do the job.

They are both naive, they are both learning on the job. We have a young squad, so really we have everyone learning as we are going on and that is a recipe for disaster.

Poor appointments both times by Levy.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Do you really think Lamela, Eriksen, Capoue, Chiriches, Chadli Paulinho and Soldado were well managed in the first half of the season and that had AVB continued they would now all be "settled" and firing on all cylinders?


What evidence do you have for this assertion?

I completely think their performances would have improved as the season wore on, considering they all came from outside the PL and should have been afforded some settling in time.

They were still on board with AVB, still playing the way he wanted and after the first hammering at City we took 7 points and played well in the games before the Liverpool match. We were 8 points off the top of the league so I wouldn't say they were badly managed. AVB gave the impression that he was someone that planned with future stages of the season in mind and I think he would have completely expected the new signings to make a greater impact on the later months.

I don't hate Sherwood as much as Scara, but I don't think he's done anything particularly outstanding to start getting performances out of Chadli and Eriksen. Eriksen was always going to be the most likely to settle quickly of the attacking players and Chadli probably second - he spoke some English and was strong and reasonably quick so can hold his own in this league. Soldado and Lamela will have needed more time (it was always clear with Lamela but perhaps Soldado with his experience may have happened quicker, turns out he needed time too though). Chiriches and Capoue are defensive players and by their nature have certain competencies that allow them to settle more easily into this league. Paulinho couldn't speak English but started off reasonably well before falling away, he will probably take a year to be settled properly especially considering the different schedule of our league compared to Brazil's.

Of all our signings starting to play better, I completely think it would have happened under AVB. The question though is whether AVB would be able to work with Levy in transfer windows because it increasingly seems clear that they had different ideas in terms of targets and who they wanted the club to sign. If AVB couldn't work with Levy, it's best he's not here. Either that, or Levy needs to look at what he thinks is best for the club. Because we potentially have let an excellent, highly talented manager in AVB go in order to allow a manager with no experience to have a 'learning curve' for half a season with us while Liverpool and Everton overtake us, because of what Levy thinks the club needs. My opinion is that if you are lucky enough to secure a rare commodity in AVB, you defer to him a little and let him shape the club. As it was Levy didn't want to give up that control and wants someone like Sherwood who can work within it.

But when we are so keen to get someone to work with the chairman that we get someone with no experience to manage the team, is it possible that there is something wrong with the decision making at the top of the club? Maybe the chairman's ways of working are incorrect?

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

pirate if you're using avb as a yardstick to measure Sherwoods ability/performance i think you've lost this argument before you've started - seeings as you couldn't wait to see the back of AVB and Sherwood has barely done any better (if at all) what exactly are you trying to say?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Especially as our 0-0 away draw at Goodison under AVB was a lot more impressive, as we totally dominated that game, yet didn't get the win we probably deserved. It was AVB's best performance of the season.

I'd say the Cardiff game was better as we really peppered their goal and didn't create too many big opportunities at Goodison. Then again though, to turn up to a team such as Everton who were exhibiting a great ability to control the ball under Martinez and barely give them a kick was mighty impressive.

There were plenty of good performances under AVB at the start of the year. Not as many at home but there's no reason why we couldn't have improved on that score.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Under AVB we were poor against the top teams and we looked solid against the lower teams defensively, we had lots of possesion and the players seemed to know their roles and a system was in place.

Under TS we have won more but purely because we play gung ho football, the formation changes weekly, the personnel are being changed without thought, Siggy plays one game for 30 minutes as centre mid and gets the gig for the next game. We get caught out with a high line once and then we go deeper. The players seem confused about their roles when watching. We cannot even pass it sideways well. We do not press very well and get pressed with ease. It all looks like it has gone backwards and there is clearly no long term plan on where our team is going, how we are going to play, how we will set up, what role is best suited to each player. nothing for me. He is clearly out of his depth and it will be good to see an organised caoch come in who can take the team forward.

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

pirate if you're using avb as a yardstick to measure Sherwoods ability/performance i think you've lost this argument before you've started - seeings as you couldn't wait to see the back of AVB and Sherwood has barely done any better (if at all) what exactly are you trying to say?

The point I am trying to make is that for those that lauded AVB, TS is not doing a worse job.

While I agree with the comment above that they are both novices, one had 100m spent assembling the squad he (at least partly ) wanted, bringing in 11 different players, had two pre seasons and a host of meaningless EL games to develop a team, a way of playing with a squad full of fit players to chose from. The other came in mid-season, the team on the back of hammerings, a defense error prone and, to cap it off, a humongous injury list, which prevented any form of cohesion and consistency being able to be established with every game from the outset of significant importance.

Two vastly different starting points IMO.

I don't know whether TS is the real deal, but I do feel it is harsh to judge him on the raw deal he inherited. That is all.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Do you really think Lamela, Eriksen, Capoue, Chiriches, Chadli Paulinho and Soldado were well managed in the first half of the season and that had AVB continued they would now all be "settled" and firing on all cylinders?


What evidence do you have for this assertion?

Nice evasion of a question you don't want to answer!

Firstly, it doesn't matter if they were well managed in the first half of the season and it's likely to be impossible to tell. Most people (not just me) seem to think that allowing half a season to players moving to a new league is pretty much the norm. So whether they were managed badly or well, we won't know because it's impossible to take out the adjusting to a new league factor.

One thing that we can say is that one would usually expect those players to have settled by now under most normal circumstances and that they are clearly not performing.

So again, what is the difference (externally) between a well managed adjusting player and a poorly managed adjusted player?

 

[superfaisty]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I take it he is still here then? and no sign of a punched player(s)? At least Levy has spared us another ignominy.

I get that he says he can learn more about the players in the stand, but really it's all about perception, isn't it.

The impression he gave by hiding away in the stands is just that, hiding. To leave Les to do the shouting at the payers also smacks of someone who doesn't care / lost his will to care about this team.

I get we have a lot of players injured, I get we have made a lot of mistakes individually, I get there are a lot of things that could be used to excuse the current situation.

But blow me first and foremost man up, you're the manager of this ramshackle bunch of misfits, you sent them out there, you picked this team, ffs man up and take responsiblity. For all the good sitting up in the stands did we looked like a team that didn't know how to combat liverpool's style and Sherwood didn't come up with any ideas at all. May be he had no ideas but ffs switch it up if it aint working?!?! go three and the back with wing backs or something anything.

The worse thing we did is the lack of pressing - they had some much time on the ball to make the pass, and we were so static it was like watching men versus boys. They looked fitter, more mobile, showed more movement - and we were the ones who hadn't played in midweek.

As dress rehearsals go for the main job, TS is quickly writing himself off the list. Not sure even if we win the last six games whether he can redeem himself - even if he has the belief in himself his players don't have the belief in him going by the current evidence on show.

 

[nelto]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I take it he is still here then? and no sign of a punched player(s)? At least Levy has spared us another ignominy.

I get that he says he can learn more about the players in the stand, but really it's all about perception, isn't it.

The impression he gave by hiding away in the stands is just that, hiding. To leave Les to do the shouting at the payers also smacks of someone who doesn't care / lost his will to care about this team.

I get we have a lot of players injured, I get we have made a lot of mistakes individually, I get there are a lot of things that could be used to excuse the current situation.

But blow me first and foremost man up, you're the manager of this ramshackle bunch of misfits, you sent them out there, you picked this team, ffs man up and take responsiblity. For all the good sitting up in the stands did we looked like a team that didn't know how to combat liverpool's style and Sherwood didn't come up with any ideas at all. May be he had no ideas but ffs switch it up if it aint working?!?! go three and the back with wing backs or something anything.

The worse thing we did is the lack of pressing - they had some much time on the ball to make the pass, and we were so static it was like watching men versus boys. They looked fitter, more mobile, showed more movement - and we were the ones who hadn't played in midweek.

As dress rehearsals go for the main job, TS is quickly writing himself off the list. Not sure even if we win the last six games whether he can redeem himself - even if he has the belief in himself his players don't have the belief in him going by the current evidence on show.

Good post. One observation, we appeared to be too frightened even to do any pressing. Even when we did high up in their half, more of a half-arsed attack really, they broke and Coutinho scored!

 

[Pirate55]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Nice evasion of a question you don't want to answer!

Firstly, it doesn't matter if they were well managed in the first half of the season and it's likely to be impossible to tell. Most people (not just me) seem to think that allowing half a season to players moving to a new league is pretty much the norm. So whether they were managed badly or well, we won't know because it's impossible to take out the adjusting to a new league factor.

One thing that we can say is that one would usually expect those players to have settled by now under most normal circumstances and that they are clearly not performing.

So again, what is the difference (externally) between a well managed adjusting player and a poorly managed adjusted player?

Are you really espousing that it doesn't matter how a player is managed in his first six months, he will settle anyway?

If so, I fundamentally disagree. I think it is of major importance how a player is managed at a new club in the first six months, particularly ones coming from abroad.

I can't believe you think it makes no difference. Or have I misunderstood you ?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Are you really espousing that it doesn't matter how a player is managed in his first six months, he will settle anyway?

If so, I fundamentally disagree. I think it is of major importance how a player is managed at a new club in the first six months, particularly ones coming from abroad.

I can't believe you think it makes no difference. Or have I misunderstood you ?

Surely the point being made is simply that players from abroad will likely improve after the first 6 months, no matter who the manager is then, because they will have settled. But because they were likely to have been below their optimum level within that first 6 months, there's no real way of knowing whether it was down to 'poor management' or whether it was simply the expected adjustment period anyway.