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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?

  • Total voters
    125
  • Poll closed .
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Gutter Boy said:
As the person who (I believe) coined Timmeh, I don't intend it to be that offensive. It was both a South Park reference and obviously Tim-meh. But compared to Nice But Dim or Wormtongue or some of the others that we flying around at the time, it was a bit fluffier than them. Deadwood is good, but that was much more fitting for his playing career with us.

I think there's a careful line. For someone who had very strong feelings about Redknapp, I would never use any that related to his physical appearence/car crash. Ones relating to his behaviour like Readies Redknapp or Del Boy though were absolutely fair game.
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I thought I may have been the first to use it as everyone else was using far more derogatory terms for him at the time and I hadn't seen it used previously. However, you frequent this forum far more than I do so I'll bow to your superior knowledge!

When I started using Timmeh, it was purely because I use the same nickname for every single 'Tim' or 'Timothy' I know. And the reason for this is:

[video=youtube;TloqFIEZJ6E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TloqFIEZJ6E&list=RDzshm7vneHN0[/video]
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

scaramanga said:
Another interesting angle on Timmeh's time here:

http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/02/tottenham-lucky-tim-sherwood-and-why-results-can-be-misleading/

Certainly puts pay to the suggestion that the two playing styles caused different shot types.

Sent from my SGP311 using Fapatalk
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Makes interesting reading that article. Seemingly our defense is just as frail as it has been all season even after the management change, but the major factor is our luck in front of goal or simply the re-introduction of Adebayor. Fine margins indeed.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Huddy said:
Makes interesting reading that article. Seemingly our defense is just as frail as it has been all season even after the management change, but the major factor is our luck in front of goal or simply the re-introduction of Adebayor. Fine margins indeed.
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the shots per game ratio was mostly down to andros townsend. the guy shoots for fun, unfortunately cant score for fun. hes been injured under TS but for AVB was playing - on paper his shots make the team look like we were an attacking team but its just simply down to the fact we have a player who shoots on sight. he was carrying those numbers by himself. he had at one point the most shots in the league

pointless article pointless stat - as are 99% of stats.

the article even answers its own points by a) stating we dont shoot from low expectation zones anymore (townsends hopeful shots no longer an issue) and we b) have higher converstion rate

this to me equals that we are instead of having hopeful shots all game due to zero tactics (avb) we are now playing in the right areas of the field and converting more.

so whats the bloody point of the article???
 
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Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

scaramanga said:
Another interesting angle on Timmeh's time here:

http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/02/tottenham-lucky-tim-sherwood-and-why-results-can-be-misleading/

Certainly puts paid to the suggestion that the two playing styles caused different shot types.

Sent from my SGP311 using Fapatalk
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Very worrying that .. (but stats can be made to say anything)

My view, our defense is still as vulnerable, if not more so when we play no outright DM (not counting Bentaleb as a DM), probably countered a little by Hugo's recent form and having Vert back. Attacking wise, I simply think we commit more players to attack, get more following in (Paulinho - obvious, but even Eriksen), hence why I believe our goal output is better.

Problem with stats over a small period of games, it's can swing wildly from the "norm"

Net = I don't quite believe the team is the same, just with a little bit better "luck"
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i'm going on a hunch that our defence stats will look different with and without rose in the side.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

scaramanga said:
Another interesting angle on Timmeh's time here:

http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/02/tottenham-lucky-tim-sherwood-and-why-results-can-be-misleading/

Certainly puts paid to the suggestion that the two playing styles caused different shot types.

Sent from my SGP311 using Fapatalk
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that thing could be skewed in favour of games that we played where we had most of the ball against a park the bus type opponent

even then i wouldnt mind knowing exactly how this gets split by halves

one thing i dont think is easy to quantify is tempo.....at a slower tempo you allow the opposition to get back and set up...at a quicker one they are more disorganised and spaces can and will appear for better quality shots

you know what...we need highlights of at least 5 randomly selected games and with all our chANces in that game shown

another thing to take into account is squad selection....some people will have been picked ..ill equipped for finishing well under a system

having said all that i guess you are NOT realy talking about all these intangibles and instead just of the raw data...which if this guy is not making this stuff up i have to say is a bit surprising to say the least
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Edit:-

Actually you know what. maybe it does show something?

I'm looking at the raw proportions and it looks like, on the 50th glance

AVB's team:-

Took more ill advised shots based on angles.
Shot from more hard to score locations based on distance.
And since he averages more shots at goal than the average premier league team a combination of both amounts to a significant amount more raw tallied low conversion rate type shots on goal

Large amount of shots and lots of those in comparison to the average prem team not so good. The focus as well didnt seem to be on creating good chances as it were i dont think?

Tim sherwood though

Has less shots on goal. Probably due to the taking less ill advised shots on goal
Takes Less shots even as a proportion as well as raw numbers i would guess from ill advised positions
The variance of the shot selection shows that the team focuses MORE on better conversion rate type shots. Their shot selection is actually BETTER!!!:)

and at the rate of shots per game i think it would amount to a higher rate of better shots per overall shots per game as opposed to AVB's tacticts?


this is too early in the morning for this ****
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

scaramanga said:
Another interesting angle on Timmeh's time here:

http://www.statsbomb.com/2014/02/tottenham-lucky-tim-sherwood-and-why-results-can-be-misleading/

Certainly puts paid to the suggestion that the two playing styles caused different shot types.

Sent from my SGP311 using Fapatalk
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I haven't actually done any maths on this, but quickly looking at those stats the only one that looks statistically significant is the number of shots from 'Marginal positions', just about cut in half from 7 per game to 3.6 per game. Also taking us pretty much in line with our opponents (and thus what I imagine is closer to the league average?).
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think that it is difficult to draw any significant conclusions from data taken over such a short period, particularly when Sherwood had to contend with a injuries to key players, fixture conjestions and as a result (I think) is only just moving towards his preferred tactics.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

africanspurs said:
that thing could be skewed in favour of games that we played where we had most of the ball against a park the bus type opponent

even then i wouldnt mind knowing exactly how this gets split by halves

one thing i dont think is easy to quantify is tempo.....at a slower tempo you allow the opposition to get back and set up...at a quicker one they are more disorganised and spaces can and will appear for better quality shots

you know what...we need highlights of at least 5 randomly selected games and with all our chANces in that game shown

another thing to take into account is squad selection....some people will have been picked ..ill equipped for finishing well under a system

having said all that i guess you are NOT realy talking about all these intangibles and instead just of the raw data...which if this guy is not making this stuff up i have to say is a bit surprising to say the least
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I don't think transition is relevant. After all, if transition to attack was slow then in transition to defence it follows that we would have numbers back to defend and players would be closer to their positions. So whilst it would theoretically have an effect on our offensive numbers, it should equally reduce the goals allowed.

I'm a little surprised that the figures surprise you too. What the data show is exactly what I would have told you was happening anecdotally. Fortunately the author has the time and inclination to put into figures what we were seeing.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

no wonder Levy so quickly dispensed with AVB if a youth team manager with no first team management experience can so easily do a similar job :lol:.....funny ol game
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Does anyone think that Sherwood will ever partner Sandro & Capoue...and play the two Dm's???

I know that people wouldnt like this and they might think its similar to what AVB was doing.....however in two specific games...Chelsea & Pool away I would like to see us to do this and stay in the game/hit them on the counter.

not sure when thinking of Utd at home but have the two played together? certainly not consistently....Injuries havent helped and I wouldnt want us to play them both together all the time, however, I would hope that timmy would consider it...especially at anfield where they will try and destroy us early on...to get us some kind of foothold.

Just wondering peoples thoughts whether there is a case for playing Sandro & Capoue in specific games? and whether they think Sherwood would do it?
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'm pretty sure AVB did this against Fulham away and it was a little messy? May be wrong though
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Article states;

Under AVB, Tottenham scored from less than 17% of their shots on target, however since Lucky Tim has been at the helm they have managed to convert more than 51% of their on target shots!!! It may be the case that Sherwood has tremendous coaching capabilities but I’d certainly be betting that his Tottenham team won’t finish the season with more than half of their on target shots being scored. In fact, I’d wager that the Regression Monster is due to pay another visit to White Hart Lane.

From watching us, it's fairly obvious why this is. In the games TS has been in charge we have created better chances than we did under AVB. More clear cut chances = better conversion rate. It may also mean less overall shots as the more 'Gung-Ho' style we've adopted we tend to counter with pace and either carve the opposition open or lose the ball. With AVB's style we didn't carve anyone open, allowed the opposition to put 10 men behind the ball and took pot shots from distance, even our good chances we're not as clear cut as the chances we are creating now.

That being said, it's entirely possible that TS Sherwood can't keep us playing the way we are and we regress to the mean, but I don't think the reason for that will be him running out of luck. It will however be the test of how good he is as a manager and only time will tell.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Nigeyman said:
Does anyone think that Sherwood will ever partner Sandro & Capoue...and play the two Dm's???

I know that people wouldnt like this and they might think its similar to what AVB was doing.....however in two specific games...Chelsea & Pool away I would like to see us to do this and stay in the game/hit them on the counter.

not sure when thinking of Utd at home but have the two played together? certainly not consistently....Injuries havent helped and I wouldnt want us to play them both together all the time, however, I would hope that timmy would consider it...especially at anfield where they will try and destroy us early on...to get us some kind of foothold.

Just wondering peoples thoughts whether there is a case for playing Sandro & Capoue in specific games? and whether they think Sherwood would do it?
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I hope so, sometimes you need to overload in cm, it gives the third mf a free role, something Dembele may revel in and allows the fb's greater freedom to maraud, it also opens the channels wider for 1 on 1's for your wingers if you can pull the game into the centre of the pitch
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Millsy_Yiddo said:
Article states;

Under AVB, Tottenham scored from less than 17% of their shots on target, however since Lucky Tim has been at the helm they have managed to convert more than 51% of their on target shots!!! It may be the case that Sherwood has tremendous coaching capabilities but I’d certainly be betting that his Tottenham team won’t finish the season with more than half of their on target shots being scored. In fact, I’d wager that the Regression Monster is due to pay another visit to White Hart Lane.

From watching us, it's fairly obvious why this is. In the games TS has been in charge we have created better chances than we did under AVB. More clear cut chances = better conversion rate. It may also mean less overall shots as the more 'Gung-Ho' style we've adopted we tend to counter with pace and either carve the opposition open or lose the ball. With AVB's style we didn't carve anyone open, allowed the opposition to put 10 men behind the ball and took pot shots from distance, even our good chances we're not as clear cut as the chances we are creating now.

That being said, it's entirely possible that TS Sherwood can't keep us playing the way we are and we regress to the mean, but I don't think the reason for that will be him running out of luck. It will however be the test of how good he is as a manager and only time will tell.
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I agree that the quality of chances has improved. We have also committed more men to attacks, been more direct, more fluid in the final third and replaced a forward in poor form with one in red hot form. All of these will be contributing factors.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

milo said:
I agree that the quality of chances has improved. We have also committed more men to attacks, been more direct, more fluid in the final third and replaced a forward in poor form with one in red hot form. All of these will be contributing factors.
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This. Only those denying the evidence of their own eyes would think otherwise, no?
 
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