Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

He was rent a quote about us when we got rid of him, then he used every opportunity to do so again when being one of the least insightful pundits I've ever heard (and most of them are terrible). Could you be a bit more specific? What did he say



I don't know those situations as well as ours but if the circumstances are the same then yes. I think everyone to a man thought it was a poor decision by Southampton to sack Nigel Adkins, but it looks like an inspired decision now to replace him with Poch, no matter how harsh it was on Adkins.



Because the decision was made without the hindsight we have. The decision made with the available information at the time was wrong. If it flukes into a good result, that doesn't make the decision right. What kind of warped logic is that? If he goes on to win the league then it's still the wrong decision? It's a results business, that's what determines if the decision was right or wrong, not fans irrational views of the manager.




Not yet, no. In fact, the time it took him to fix what he'd got so obviously wrong is concerning. The fact that he did get it right eventually is promising though. Fix what? We lost against two of the 3 best teams in the league, we didn't manage to beat any of the top 8 this season under AVB. We've lost 1 league game since Sherwood took over, and we're scoring more goals.



He spent quite some time ****ging off the club I love - that should be reason enough for anyone to hate him. So managers you like such as AVB can **** off the fans for having the nerve to not appreciate his sleep inducing style of play and you're cool with that?

My responses in bold

 

[screen nayim]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Do you understand plain English? I plainly said, "Who knows, he COULD be ". I also said " let's give him a chance. " I did not say he IS our Cloughie or predict he WILL be our Cloughie. I said he COULD be our Cloughie. He could equally not be.

Unlike you and others, I did not rush to judgement. Indeed, I still have not formed a definitive view on Sherwood as it is far too early to judge him. What I dislike is you and others pre- judging him.

Geddit now?

To be honest, there will be some that never get it. They got so got sucked in to admiring the shiny new clothes of the laptop manager, there's no way they can ever admit that a goon supporting semi chav from Borehamwood could possibly do a better job.

Despite the only stat that matters, points on the board, clearly proving otherwise.







Seeing it all from block 29.

 

[JerusalemMan]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not a derivation I agree with, but even so would rather not have people's religion thrown in my face.

I suppose if you're a Greek speaking ardent atheist who has had a life full of a harassment from religious extremists who thought that they were honouring GHod, then you may have a point.

However if you are just not a fan of the name Timothy, and are rushing to the judgement that anyone who has named a child such does so purely from religious conviction, then I fear you are showing irrationality.

And as far as the name derivation goes, whether or not you agree with it does not change what it actually is.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I suppose if you're a Greek speaking ardent atheist who has had a life full of a harassment from religious extremists who thought that they were honouring GHod, then you may have a point.

However if you are just not a fan of the name Timothy, and are rushing to the judgement that anyone who has named a child such does so purely from religious conviction, then I fear you are showing irrationality.

And as far as the name derivation goes, whether or not you agree with it does not change what it actually is.

I don't think that everyone naming their child with that name is doing so religiously, but it would be pretty tough to be ignorant of its clear meaning.

As for the meaning of the name, wouldn't you agree that meanings change over time? And that the English meaning being from this country and a good thousand years more recent is the relevant one? Unless you're suggesting that most people naming their child that way are scholars of ancient Greek etymology?

 

[Rorschach]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

This thread is a bit mad.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Could you be a bit more specific? What did he say

You'd have to search for the quotes - I don't remember what he said, just that it made me think what an ungrateful little **** he was for saying it. He was also a huge trouble maker whilst still on the dressing room according to quite a few reports at the time.

I think everyone to a man thought it was a poor decision by Southampton to sack Nigel Adkins, but it looks like an inspired decision now to replace him with Poch, no matter how harsh it was on Adkins.

I honestly know very little about that club and that situation (other than the fact that it's supported by some very strange people who live in a city in the South East yet sound like farmers).

What happened there and why is it like our situation?

What kind of warped logic is that? If he goes on to win the league then it's still the wrong decision? It's a results business, that's what determines if the decision was right or wrong, not fans irrational views of the manager.

Come on, I know you're not dumb so stop playing it to try and make a point. It's a fairly simple premise. Someone can make a really, really bad decision (like appointing an amateur to do a really important job). That decision is a terrible decision. If future events not related to the evidence at hand at the time of the bad decision fluke things into being positive that doesn't change how bad the decision was, just how good the outcome is.

Let me give you an example. Suarez is running at our defence with the ball. Dawson decides that instead of trying to tackle him he'll lay face-down on the floor instead. Suarez shoots, his the crossbar and from the rebound, Vertonghen hits a clearance that catches a gust of wind and sails into Liverpool's net.

The original decision to just lay down on the floor doesn't become a good one because we score - it's still an ridiculous thing to do.

Fix what? We lost against two of the 3 best teams in the league, we didn't manage to beat any of the top 8 this season under AVB. We've lost 1 league game since Sherwood took over, and we're scoring more goals.

Fix the mistakes that he was making. We won despite his choices not because of them. Hopefully he's finished his "I'm not AVB" grandstanding and can get on with trying not to do anything stupid that might put off a professional from joining in the summer.

] So managers you like such as AVB can **** off the fans for having the nerve to not appreciate his sleep inducing style of play and you're cool with that?[/B]

It might surprise you to hear I don't actually like AVB. That's not to say I dislike him, but I actually like very few people - mostly with good reason. I'm fairly apathetic towards him - I do like his philosophy about football though and I do think he'll do great things if he can put up with all the neanderthals in football long enough.

I don't think AVB ****ged the fans off at all. What he said is that we moan and whine about every misplaced pass at home, cheer very little and it puts undue pressure on the players. Can you honestly say any of that is untrue? Our fans have been terrible at home since Jol got sacked. In fact, he could have added that for fans who claim to be the cultured types who value the beauty of football over its physicality, we're surprisingly impatient when it comes to possession football.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I'll never like Timmeh - he spent far too long making a living out of publicly ****ing us off for that to change.

That's not all that important though. For me to respect him as a manager he either needs to have a history of success in football or he needs to explain in incredibly fine detail the kind of system he believes will turn a club like Spurs (6th richest in the league) into one that can eventually challenge for the title. He needs to stop evading what the old English type of manager might consider scary complicated tactical questions, and he needs to promise us that he will never, ever employ Jamie Redknapp.

It's impossible for the decision to employ him to be anything other than a bad one though. To employ an amateur when there are professionals around to do that job is a terrible decision no matter how it turns out.

As for the name Timmeh, I just find it amusing to imagine Levy and Baldini sitting in an office after sacking AVB, clearly not having thought it through properly and not having an even half-decent replacement ready. Levy turns to Baldini and asks "Who the hell do we offer the job to? We've asked every professional on the planet other than Pulis and they've all turned us down." Then in the background, sitting behind them with his hand in the air shouts Sherwood - "Timmeh!"

Aside from the fact I disagree with the cut and thrust of your opinion (which to be fair mate seems to be more than bordering on maniacal at this point) I have to say that the boldface above is absolutely wrong. We might both agree that it is a great shame AVB didn't work out, and we might both agree that Levy played his part by not securing certain players, but to ignore AVB's role in his own demise with us is blinkered, and to suggest that Sherwood had not/was not being groomed for a managerial role at some point is simply not true. There's a lot of info out there to suggest why this is a fact, further supported by the fact that he is (as we have both acknowledged) ruthlessly ambitious and has been 'playing' his cards for some time.

To suggest that the decision to employ him is 'impossible to be anything other than bad' somewhat invalidates every opinion you're trying to put forward mate. A wise man doesn't make absolute statements on what the future will hold.

I have to say, I'm genuinely surprised to see this entire topic get so much under your bonnet mate…it's really playing out in a loud and pretty boorish fashion, which is unlike you. I'm genuinely interested to know why…best, Steff

 

[Cochise]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I was of the opinion early on that TS was playing the 442 to break the shackles that AVB had put on our team and to encourage the players to express themselves. I also thought that he wouldn't keep that formation and that he would switch towards a more tactical system once the players had gone back to basics, as it seemed AVB had loaded them with too much too soon. It seems that we are gradually leaning towards a 433 though not the typical one with two inverted wingers and overlapping fullbacks.

The one thing we don't know is the methods used by both AVB and TS to train the team and how well each one gets their point across. Until one of us gets invited in to watch a training session we will never know if Tim's approach is any good or if he really is just fluking it, proving that AVB was just unlucky.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

To be honest, there will be some that never get it. They got so got sucked in to admiring the shiny new clothes of the laptop manager, there's no way they can ever admit that a goon supporting semi chav from Borehamwood could possibly do a better job.

Despite the only stat that matters, points on the board, clearly proving otherwise.







Seeing it all from block 29.

With all due respect, that is a crock of bull****.

The issue for some of us is not whether TS is better than AVB or not; it's the nature that some are twisting past and current events, quotes, how they view the way players 'put in effort for the manager' to claim that EVERYTHING under our previous manager was wrong; from having too many 'man-management issues' to stating that we NEVER EVER played well under AVB, or that - despite winning most games after the Emirates Marketing Project debacle - 'the players had stopped putting the effort in.'

The joke of it is that the same person saying that in this thread - the TS thread - is then saying we should all move on and stop bringing up AVB!
No doubt that same poster will use an interview in the papers with Bale and say in a few weeks time that "Bale left Spurs because he hated AVB."
You heard it here first...

This is indeed the TS thread, but when somebody posts clear BS regarding the previous coach (probably to big-up our current coach even more than is needed/necessary) then there WILL be some of us who are more even-minded towards BOTH coaches (yes that includes me) who will say 'hang on a minute'.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I want to try and get this thread 'back to basics' a little...

TS has been in the job for 12 games now.
We seem to be more attacking, though we continually start games poorly imo.

Are people seeing our methodology/tactics starting to settle into a distinct pattern now under TS?
Are we moving towards a definite 4-3-3 now?
Will the 4-4-2 where Ade and Soldado play together be used for home games against teams we expect to dominate in terms of possession?
Will 4-4-2 be used away from home as well?

The Saudi Sportswashing Machine game seemed significant to me in that it showed:
a) there will be games that TS decides to use a DCM (i.e. Capoue/Sandro) and alongside Bentaleb (which imo was GREAT to see, for Bentaleb's benefit as well as the CBs)
b) TS can be ruthless - dropping Eriksen and Dawson
c) if not ruthless as I say in b), TS is very much prepared to rotate
d) TS values Dembele's ball-skills and will be prepared to use them further up the pitch

Also, do people think that Dawson will be used less towards the end of the season if Kaboul proves his fitness and doesn't have too many mares.

Interesting times ahead, one way or another

COYS

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I was of the opinion early on that TS was playing the 442 to break the shackles that AVB had put on our team and to encourage the players to express themselves. I also thought that he wouldn't keep that formation and that he would switch towards a more tactical system once the players had gone back to basics, as it seemed AVB had loaded them with too much too soon. It seems that we are gradually leaning towards a 433 though not the typical one with two inverted wingers and overlapping fullbacks.

The one thing we don't know is the methods used by both AVB and TS to train the team and how well each one gets their point across. Until one of us gets invited in to watch a training session we will never know if Tim's approach is any good or if he really is just fluking it, proving that AVB was just unlucky.

I agree (although we did play with inverted wingers against Saudi Sportswashing Machine)

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I want to try and get this thread 'back to basics' a little...

TS has been in the job for 12 games now.
We seem to be more attacking, though we continually start games poorly imo.

Are people seeing our methodology/tactics starting to settle into a distinct pattern now under TS?
Are we moving towards a definite 4-3-3 now?
Will the 4-4-2 where Ade and Soldado play together be used for home games against teams we expect to dominate in terms of possession?
Will 4-4-2 be used away from home as well?

The Saudi Sportswashing Machine game seemed significant to me in that it showed:
a) there will be games that TS decides to use a DCM (i.e. Capoue/Sandro) and alongside Bentaleb (which imo was GREAT to see, for Bentaleb's benefit as well as the CBs)
b) TS can be ruthless - dropping Eriksen and Dawson
c) if not ruthless as I say in b), TS is very much prepared to rotate
d) TS values Dembele's ball-skills and will be prepared to use them further up the pitch

Also, do people think that Dawson will be used less towards the end of the season if Kaboul proves his fitness and doesn't have too many mares.

Interesting times ahead, one way or another

COYS

Firstly, thanks for trying to get the thread back on topic.

I think that we are moving towards a definite 4-3-3 now and was what he had always intended, as it is what he played with the development squad.

I think that the brief flirtation with 4-4-2 was to get more players pushing forwards and because if lack of available time on the training pitch.

I don't think that we will switch formations too much in the run in. We've got some tough games coming up and the players need to know what they and their teammates will be doing.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Aside from the fact I disagree with the cut and thrust of your opinion (which to be fair mate seems to be more than bordering on maniacal at this point) I have to say that the boldface above is absolutely wrong. We might both agree that it is a great shame AVB didn't work out, and we might both agree that Levy played his part by not securing certain players, but to ignore AVB's role in his own demise with us is blinkered, and to suggest that Sherwood had not/was not being groomed for a managerial role at some point is simply not true. There's a lot of info out there to suggest why this is a fact, further supported by the fact that he is (as we have both acknowledged) ruthlessly ambitious and has been 'playing' his cards for some time.

To suggest that the decision to employ him is 'impossible to be anything other than bad' somewhat invalidates every opinion you're trying to put forward mate. A wise man doesn't make absolute statements on what the future will hold.

I have to say, I'm genuinely surprised to see this entire topic get so much under your bonnet mate…it's really playing out in a loud and pretty boorish fashion, which is unlike you. I'm genuinely interested to know why…best, Steff

See my reply to Jurgen for how it was a bad decision regardless.

I'm sure that when Levy tried to stick his nose into team matters AVB was stubborn, even intransigent but that's how I'd expect any manager to react when a chairman oversteps his knowledge/place.

 

[Hully]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Tim's early selections were heavily constricted by injuries. He still hasn't had he's first choice 11 available, probably only 8 of them in any one game.
Looking at the selection for each game given the squad available I don't think he could have done much better.
He's come into the job with loads of players out, others regaining match fitness. Tactics at times have been determined by who we've been able to field.
Now we're getting players back I think we'll start to see what our side is capable of. The fact that we've picked up so many points from those 12 games despite all the players missing is a massive plus for Tim.

 

[Roland Beurre]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

When someone is given their big chance over more experienced, internationally acclaimed candidates, it is reasonable to question that decision.

You have to take it on trust that the person who made that decision has seen something, through working with them on a daily basis, that engenders that faith.

But enough about Bentaleb, we were talking about Sherwood ...

I'd like to think that Spurs have some kind of "Liverpool boot room" ethos on the managerial side with a brains trust helping Sherwood formulate tactical plans and what-not. The managerial team still needs a leader, though, and Sherwood has shown leadership qualities.

It is still early days, of course, and we'll get a better idea of what he is made of when the wheels start to fall off a bit.

There seem to be a few similarities to me between Sherwood and Gus Poyet; both were apparently disruptive as players, opinionated, ambitious, focused on winning.

I have to say Tim's post-match interviews are better though ...

Of course, if Sherwood only got the job because he expressed the view that "the last thing we need is more players coming in during the January transfer window", then I take it all back ...


* Edit: Changed "giving" to "given" in first line. I am much obliged to Bullet for "not" pointing this out and making me laugh when (not) doing so. I knew I had made a rod for my own back in that bloody Randomination thread.

 

[Cochise]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach


Are people seeing our methodology/tactics starting to settle into a distinct pattern now under TS?
I'm not sure just yet but I think he is starting to get a feel for the squad. He tried two ball playing midfielders vs West Brom and learnt a lesson, he tried Paulinho with two strikers vs Hull and it failed (there never seemed enough space) and has tried Dembele in numerous positions to get the most from him. Has he re-thought his stance on holding midfielders since Wednesday? The high line is back and the pressing from our front players is a joy to watch, barring one or two moments of mis-communication. We do look to be trying to get the ball down and pass it around in the middle which is good. I'm hoping we start to get better at keeping the ball too.

Are we moving towards a definite 4-3-3 now?
We do seem to be looking more comfortable in that formation than any other, with both Paulinho and Bentaleb looking good. The issue will be how we integrate people like Eriksen and Lamela in there. Although we did play with inverted wingers against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, neither can claim to it being their natural game (Lennon and Dembele aren't inverted wingers by trade). So long as Ade remains in good form I think we will see more of it. As most have noted we have a squad that is tailored towards a 433 so, I'd think that a smart coach would look to get the most from the players so a 433 would be optimal.

Will the 4-4-2 where Ade and Soldado play together be used for home games against teams we expect to dominate in terms of possession?
Maybe. I still think people are hung up on the 442 as if it's the typical thing for an English manager. It can work if Ade is on song and dropping deep, but in the games where he hasn't looked sharp we have looked weak, with Soldado offering little in the way of hold up play.

Will 4-4-2 be used away from home as well?
Entirely depends upon the team we are playing, but with the Hull game in mind, I don't think it is something we will be doing for a while

As for Kaboul: Most on here have had him down as the second half of our best central defensive partnership alongside Vertonghen. His strength and speed, coupled with his ball skills make him a dream for any manager and I'd be suprised if Dawson gets a look in for the league games this season unless we have injury/fitness problems.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

summary of the last 5 pages please.

i see religion in here somewhere...?

da hell?!!

 

[Lily White]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

summary of the last 5 pages please.

i see religion in here somewhere...?

da hell?!!

I'm waiting for the Hitler references unless I missed those?

 

[Bullet]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

summary of the last 5 pages please.

i see religion in here somewhere...?

da hell?!!

Scaramanga said he hates the name Timothy because it means Timid of GHod and he hates religion.

Others questioned whether he is smoking crack, but in a very polite way.

Wikipedia says Timothy is a masculine given name. It comes from the Greek name Τιμόθεος (Timotheos) meaning "honouring GHod", "in GHod's honour", or "honored by GHod".[1] It is a common name in several countries, including non-English speaking ones.

I suspect Scaramanga's Christian name is Timothy and it's a double treble triple bluff.

It is all extremely relevant and/or pertinent to Sherwood's coaching credentials.

I only said relevant, pertinent, treble and triple above to annoy Roland Buerre as he'll be forced to look up the differences. Earlier he typed giving instead of given but I didn't like to point it out.

 

[Yossarian]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Scaramanga said he hates the name Timothy because it means Timid of GHod and he hates religion.

Others questioned whether he is smoking crack, but in a very polite way.

Wikipedia says Timothy is a masculine given name. It comes from the Greek name Τιμόθεος (Timotheos) meaning "honouring GHod", "in GHod's honour", or "honored by GHod".[1] It is a common name in several countries, including non-English speaking ones.

I suspect Scaramanga's Christian name is Timothy and it's a double treble triple bluff.

It is all extremely relevant and/or pertinent to Sherwood's coaching credentials.

I only said relevant, pertinent, treble and triple above to annoy Roland Buerre as he'll be forced to look up the differences. Earlier he typed giving instead of given but I didn't like to point it out.

=D>