Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[Robspur12]

Ange's first year was markedly better than his 2nd in league, and that's part of what people need to evaluate with Frank.

Ange, Jose, Conte all had better first years than 2nd, so there is actually no evidence it will get better.

Conversely, Poch, BMJ and Harry all had better second seasons than first. A good manager can take time to implement their ideas. Especially if they have to compete in Europe as well as domestically in their first season.

 

[Finney Is Back]

He needs to stick to what he believes.

He’s the one with the coaching badges and the experience.

The average fan doesn’t understand PL football.

Pretty much every manager of every professional football club in Europe has coaching badges.

 

[Robspur12]

None of those players were those players in 2014.

Simons, Gray, Bergvall, Odobert, Moore, Lankshear etc may be being talked about in the same way in 2038 (about their 2029-32 peak) if they follow similar trajectories under the right guidance.

GB, I love your posts and I absolutely adored Poch. But I do cringe when you use him to undermine managers you don't like. In many ways it poisons his legacy. If the time is right he will come back AtM though I really think TF needs to be supported.

 

[billyiddo]

[

Conversely, Poch, BMJ and Harry all had better second seasons than first. A good manager can take time to implement their ideas. Especially if they have to compete in Europe as well as domestically in their first season.

It's not really a good yardstick to measure on. Managers who struggle tend to get sacked after about a year (especially here) - there's no evidence available to say what would happen if they were to be given time because they invariably do not get given it.

 

[Baleforce]

Conversely, Poch, BMJ and Harry all had better second seasons than first. A good manager can take time to implement their ideas. Especially if they have to compete in Europe as well as domestically in their first season.

So did AVB, game for game he had more points than the season before, and a 100% record in Europe.

 

[Gutter Boy]

GB, I love your posts and I absolutely adored Poch. But I do cringe when you use him to undermine managers you don't like. In many ways it poisons his legacy. If the time is right he will come back AtM though I really think TF needs to be supported.

Do you not think everyone should be held to his standards though? Especially considering that all five of his successors have had considerable more resources made available to them that he ever had (he did everything on zero net spend remember)?

I just don't see that it can be that hard to find a decent manager of his ilk (if not him). I'd be keen to see Iraola given a shot for that reason, maybe Xavi. But just a decent human being, who can inspire players and fans, play attractive possession football with a bit of edge, and be tactically competent. It's not too much to ask is it (although 4, possibly 5, flops in a row suggests otherwise)?

 

[Raziel]

Do you not think everyone should be held to his standards though? Especially considering that all five of his successors have had considerable more resources made available to them that he ever had (he did everything on zero net spend remember)?

I just don't see that it can be that hard to find a decent manager of his ilk (if not him). I'd be keen to see Iraola given a shot for that reason, maybe Xavi. But just a decent human being, who can inspire players and fans, play attractive possession football with a bit of edge, and be tactically competent. It's not too much to ask is it (although 4, possibly 5, flops in a row suggests otherwise)?

So to separate the conversation

- Ange got us 5th and a trophy (so while had to go, hard to classify as a flop), Conte got us back to CL, Jose got us a cup final. I'd argue only Nuno and now possibly Frank are a flop.

Which is interesting, because while they didn't match the highs of Poch, they kept the club in range, still in the mix. The decision not to fire Ange meant we never even tried to correct last season and the main concern is we are doing the exact same thing with Frank, i.e. not even trying to correct course to get us to at least a European spot.

- Re the decent person, I said somewhere else, Spurs does best when the vibes/feeling around the club is good, motivator managers seem to fit us best.

My thought is there should be some principles of what we are looking for in a manager and f that brings us a name no one here has heard of, it shouldn't matter (no one ever heard of Maresca and Arteta managed no one, similar with Pep originally at Barca)
- The club needs to determine what our basic style is to keep player acquisition coherent (3atb? wingers? technical/possession?)
- The manager should have both a style of play (some system) plus some adaptability, plus a willingness to work with youth -> Udogie, Gray, Bergvall, Sarr, Vuscovic, Moore, Odobert, Williams- Barnett, some of these need to make it.
- That style/system has to be inclined to dominate games at least against the lesser teams
- The manager needs some kind of charisma, ability to deal with press.

The idea that there is no manager out there that could do a job is OTT

 

[Baleforce]

Do you not think everyone should be held to his standards though? Especially considering that all five of his successors have had considerable more resources made available to them that he ever had (he did everything on zero net spend remember)?

I just don't see that it can be that hard to find a decent manager of his ilk (if not him). I'd be keen to see Iraola given a shot for that reason, maybe Xavi. But just a decent human being, who can inspire players and fans, play attractive possession football with a bit of edge, and be tactically competent. It's not too much to ask is it (although 4, possibly 5, flops in a row suggests otherwise)?

I don't.

He had the best squad in the clubs history.

He managed them brilliantly (for a time), and deserves a huge slice of the credit, but he didn't make wine out of water.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I don't.

He had the best squad in the clubs history.

He managed them brilliantly (for a time), and deserves a huge slice of the credit, but he didn't make wine out of water.

He did. Lloris was heading out the door because everything was so crap. Fazio was our starting centre back. Rose was neck-a-neck with Zeki Fryers to replace BAE at LB. Capoue and Paulinho (or Stambouli) was our starting central midfield. Chadli our main wing forward. Kane was Lankshear plus 1 year. Vertoghen, Eriksen and especially Dembele were around but still underwhelming. We were a real mess in 2014.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

*Stumbles back from pub.....sees Poch debate continues.....hits the cupboard for a night cap