braineclipse
Garth Crooks
Sure. But to make a team that's greater than the sum of the parts you need a team of players that fit their roles really well.
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Thomas Frank - Head Coach
- Thread starter LutonSpurs
- Start date
Sure. But to make a team that's greater than the sum of the parts you need a team of players that fit their roles really well.
Right, I don't see us trying to implement the type of specialised gameplan that requires a skillset that good players cannot do well in.
braineclipse
Garth Crooks
I'm not talking that specialised. And I'm all for signing players that are fairly well rounded. But most players fit some roles and systems better than others.
Eriktheviking
Allan Nielsen
100% spot on. The fans are the main issue with this club, never happy, always chasing total football and winning every week. Until fans get realistic and be happy with what they have then it isn’t gonna change.
Harping back to peak Poch is doing us no favours, its another point all together but that was a pure fluke in terms of recruitment.
Eriktheviking
Allan Nielsen
Do people truly think that with the same set of players Poch is going to produce magic and have us competing? Is achievements have been nothing to write about since he left us…
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
If he does half the job he did at Chelsea with us, we'll be flying.
I think the squad is actually quite suited to him - young, energetic, technical players who need moulding and belief.
Eriktheviking
Allan Nielsen
Each to their own. But energetic, technical? That isn’t what i see or can see. Perhaps with Madders or Kulu back but still a long way off. Porch had prime Ali, Dembele, Kane, Son, Toby, Jan, Walker and Rose let’s not forget…
The technical ability of our players is pretty poor for the most part
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
None of those players were those players in 2014.
Simons, Gray, Bergvall, Odobert, Moore, Lankshear etc may be being talked about in the same way in 2038 (about their 2029-32 peak) if they follow similar trajectories under the right guidance.
ricky2tricky4city
Chris Jones
Yeah sorry....I was mid reply to you...then got distracted...came back on and was replying to someone else and my half reply to you was still in the reply box. So deleted it as it wasn't relevant to the post I was replying to.
I think you asked what the difference was in performance between last night and Palace?.....tbh I think there is very little range in our performances, sometimes it adds up to a win, sometimes a draw, and sometimes a loss. Of course, there have been 3 or 4 really terrible performances.
I think generally we are defending well, with the caveat that individual mistakes have crept back in. Out attacking, is what it is, occasional good play but that's definitely the exception more than the rule.
One thing we can't be accused of (and usually this is a red line for fans) is lack of effort...players are still onboard with the manager. It's solely a 'style thing', and that 'style thing' can be temporarily be overlooked if you're leading/winning.
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Finney Is Back
Barry Daines
Poch didn’t inherit ‘prime’ any of those players….
ricky2tricky4city
Chris Jones
Nothing lasts forever.....such is life.
It was heartbreaking....but I think people's arguments of wanting to move on from Poch were fair at the time.
You think there is any significant amount of our fanbase that is "we want Frank?" I don't, I think
- There is a significant get this fudger out of my club now group, includes home and away fans and online
- There are those that are either "well we should give him more time or players and see" or "we shouldn't keep doing the manager merry go round"
I see no "Frank is the guy to take us forward", I actually think the fanbase is as aligned as it has been in years but there is no focal point.
I don't see how Frank can survive, away fans booing and singing for players long gone, asking for their money back, every home game has lots of seats up for resale, cup games not selling well, apparently dressing room not happy with Johnson being forced out.
@Finney Is Back said we got rid of the numpties in charge, I'd say with the last numpty in charge at least we know a decision would be made, hopefully these numpties don't think dead man walking to end of season is a solution.
glorygloryeze
Dimitar Berbatov
I remember last year you advocating around now (just a year later into the managerial tenure) you advocating for Ange to be fired and that we can 'get any manager we wanted if we pay the money' (i'm paraphrasing a bit here but you get the gist).
Frank was likely the manager that would have come in at that point (or a Silva, or Glasner).
Who in your mind do you think could come in now and get much better results and performances from the current players?
Do you still think (like you seemed to last year) think good coaches feel we are an attractive club to manage under this ownershipo we've had over the past 2 decades?
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Steve Carr
I find it amazing that people can say without a hint of irony that Poch had a prime Rose etc. It takes away a serious large proportion of what made him absolutely incredible at his job! None of those players had reached the level they eventually did under Poch, before he arrived. It was an absolute triumph of coaching and management that they all peaked together.
Could Poch do the same with this squad? Probably? I don’t think it’s a relevant question because I wouldn’t want to judge any manager coming in mid season especially if they’d be expected to implement a wildly different style of play. But if Poch joined in the summer, had a pre season to work at it with some of his own signings in addition to a lot of the talent we already have? Yes, I think he’d do an amazing job and get these players playing good football.
glorygloryeze
Dimitar Berbatov
It's similar to people comparing what they saw in Ange's second year with what they are seeing in Frank's first...often seems disingenuous tbh
Firing Ange is still the right call (we would be in relegation zone instead of 12th as seen at Forest).
But, if you remember well, I didn't want Frank, I said he was too direct (funny how that turned out), his football was awful, that you can lose too many games at Bretford and still be ok.
Glasner has the potential to be the next Conte, and someone will take that risk, I would have no problem with him (the football will hardly be any worse even if it won't be consistently pretty and results will be better. With the CB's we have, bring in Vuscovic and you actually have players for his system), I didn't and still don't rate Silva.
My point then, is the same as now, most managers in leagues earn 1M-3M/year, Spurs can pay up to 13M/year (Ange was earning 8X Iraola's salary as example). This board quite honestly is made up of nutters (meant in the nicest way possible) who think people worry about career trajectory when being offered a potential 18 years of salary for 18 months of work in worse case (my calculation last year of if we hired Iraola and he failed), news flash, 90% (and that's being kind) will take the money. And to stick with Iraola, lesson to be leant, he would have been in the running for Spurs, United, Chelsea at this time last year, that moment is gone. Add in, we have owners who claim there is money to invest? add in, the trophy hoodoo is gone, no incoming manager needs to win a trophy now, yes the job is attractive. Carlo Ancelotti went to fudging Everton, let that sink in.
My issue continues to be
- You cannot let standards slip, this club is a top 6 club, 20+ years of results says so, if a manager cannot achieve that minimum bar, they need to go, this also sends a message to the players, Ange was your buddy? well you fudged up and got him fired.
- There are people in the club who's fudging job is to have that next/better manager/player lined up, if they can't do that or they consistently make the wrong choices, then they have to go as well.
Again, where is a single, rational defense of Frank that isn't
- Managers need time or
- Who else would come in
If that's the only defense, it tells the entire story
Ange's first year was markedly better than his 2nd in league, and that's part of what people need to evaluate with Frank.
Ange, Jose, Conte all had better first years than 2nd, so there is actually no evidence it will get better.
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Steve Carr
I think the difference with Palace was that we actually raised our level in possession in specific moments of the match to the point it felt like we were all over them and were more likely to get the next goal. The strategy seemed similar (although I did feel we had some good moments in possession quite early in the game at the Gtech…not sure if by design or just the players saw the openings and went for it, there was a lovely one touch move out of defence through the middle quite early on, think it ultimately ended with Gray’s attempted curler) but the quality in possession against Brentford was extremely lacking for the most part.
And it was simple passes from players that easily have the quality to do better. Porro was guilty of this even. We’d have a chance to break. And actually it seemed like the team wanted to, rather than horsehoeing it back. But it was like they were out of sync. The run and the pass would be in a different direction.
That’s what really disappointed me about yesterday. I can actually completely get on board with Frank’s project if we see more performances like Palace. I think it’s a good example of what he wants to achieve, and I’ll take true defensive solidity and effective countering in a tough away game. But yesterday was simply not good. The players were bad in possession, when they absolutely had more quality to do better. And I don’t know whether it was an off day, whether Andrews knew too much about Frank and so cancelled him out, or whether the players felt rushed and over eager to do something because they didn’t have much of the ball, and therefore the decision making suffered.