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Thomas Frank - Former Head Coach

Kane said:
Initially, yes. Though keep in mind, last time around quite a few of 'the fans' turned on Poch towards the end...
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Yep but I think there’s a ton more scrutiny and momentum on the board now, especially when you look at the manager churn since Poch left. Just my opinion of course.
 
I’m disappointed, I think he’s a good manager.

The players have let him down, not the first time it’s happened to our manager.

I think we are unmanageable, we are not willing to give anyone decent a chance to change the mentality of the playing staff.

No idea who we go for now, but dollars for donuts they don’t last a season either.

I think this makes it more likely we go down.
 
Sell the majority, add the money we make in sales with the summer transfer kitty and start a proper rebuild with a full team of players the new manager wants. Mix it with the youth and come out and tell the fans what is happening and what the vision is. If it’s a top 10 finish atleast everyone is clear on what to expect.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Kinsky did a hard-to-interpret one, but that's all, I believe. No one in the squad seems particularly bothered by Frank going, which compares badly against their voluminous emotional posts when Ange left.
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Forgot that one, something about hearts desire wasn’t it? Could be interpreted one way or the other. I think in this SM driven world, the silence speaks volumes
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Why do you think Poch returning is not a good idea? I think it was blindingly obvious he should never have been sacked, because the issues around the club at the time he was let go were not his fault.

I also think there are just certain managers who just suit certain clubs. We are still roughly the same proposition we were when he first joined. Great young players and should really be in the top 6-8 but not certain to be top 4. Likely to have more possession in most matches and need a system that exploits this basic fact.

Where as Frank was just never the right man. The strangest thing for me is these stories now coming out about how he focused too much on the opposition, this was also blindingly obvious to be his approach at Brentford. So when Vinai says we moved at pace to interview 30 people and Frank nailed the top 10 criteria on every point…did they not cover this foundational aspect in the interviews? Did they discuss whether Frank would adapt his style of play for the Spurs context? Did they believe Frank’s answer? Did Frank just lie? Or did he genuinely believe he would adapt himself? It really is the most shocking thing about all this because it was so obvious at the time. And I don’t know how the process could have failed on this most obvious point.
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I likewise didn't think Poch should have gotten the sack, that was a mad decision. I'm just concerned that for many if the fans it feels like unfinished business and that they will expect too much from a return. I guess I just don't want his legacy to be damaged by a second stint at this club when I think the circumstances aren't quite as friendly as they were the first time around.

I could be wrong and he would he get the club back pointing the right way, I just think it's more likely that he will fail to live up to the fan expectations. He's almost become mythologised.
 
Rafa87 said:
Quite fun trying to think of the Pochettino line up tbh, thinking about how he fits these players into his preferred shape. Maybe the 4-2-3-1 again.

I think at this point just unite the club and scratch the Poch itch, but I don’t think it happens till after the WC, so even it isn’t perfect. However it has to be a long term appointment with a clear direction to it.

Someone needs to come in to keep us up on the meantime, I’m sure a big bonus for 13 weeks of work would suit someone. Lord only knows who though, I’m certainly not feeling the Redknapp type suggestions, I love the bloke but it’s just been too long at this point.
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The silver lining, if we can avoid getting relegated, is that the squad actually fits Poch's 4-2-3-1 quite well, though of course it needs major strengthening in several specific areas.

For example, take that attacking midfield three. If you assume Xavi moves to the left, Kudus when he returns starts off the right, and Gallagher in the 10 - that actually mirrors the way we set up with Poch.

Eriksen's role as an attacking midfielder off the right - Xavi drifting in off the left. Dele's role as a hard-pressing No.10 who arrives late in the box is paralleled by how Gallagher played when he shone at Palace and Chelsea. Kudus off the right is a ball carrier, and can parallel Sonny off the left.

Obviously, the quality is incomparable - Dele-Eriksen-Son-Kane were a group incomparably more talented than Solanke-Xavi-Gallagher-Kudus. But, the basic shape is there.

Same with the back four. If you assume an ideal back four of Udogie-VdV-Romero-Porro, in terms of roles, that is pretty close to, say, Walker-Toby-Verts-Rose. No comparison quality-wise, but roles-wise, there's a fit.

Where he lacks is that he doesn't have a Dembele to carry the ball from the middle. Or a reliable goalkeeper who was one of the best in the world, like Lloris. And then the individual quality needs hundreds of millions of pounds to upgrade, because most of this lot are utterly brick and basically Championship level.

So, no illusions that he won't work miracles. But - he has something to work with.
 
Another major fudge-up (Frank's appointment, not his sacking) and, more worryingly, I'm not sure the board really have any clue about the next manager. Hopefully, whoever it is will manage to get the points we need to stay up. They should have pulled the trigger a long time ago, even more so if the rumours about the squad having little time for Frank are true.

However, it's not a good sign at all if the players decided to down tools again, after what happened with Espirito Santo. If that is truly the case, we need to break up that squad and find players with a better mentality or we'll continue to cycle through managers the same way as we did throughout the 90s.

Also, whoever was responsible for the process that had Frank as the 'outstanding candidate' should follow him through the door.
 
Bishop said:
I likewise didn't think Poch should have gotten the sack, that was a mad decision. I'm just concerned that for many if the fans it feels like unfinished business and that they will expect too much from a return. I guess I just don't want his legacy to be damaged by a second stint at this club when I think the circumstances aren't quite as friendly as they were the first time around.

I could be wrong and he would he get the club back pointing the right way, I just think it's more likely that he will fail to live up to the fan expectations. He's almost become mythologised.
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I think it’s one of those that people see as an emotional decision (getting back with your ex) but actually it’s entirely rational. And actually the emotions and incorrect, irrational decision at the time was to sack him in the first place.

This was a clearly wildly talented manager with real charisma, who turned down the chance to go to Real Madrid to stay with us despite going more than one transfer window without signing a player. He could have been our Fergie. I think he knows too that his strengths are in developing players, building unity, setting standards and building a culture. We blew all that up by sacking him, and I think it was the stupidest thing this club has done probably going back to the Sugar years.

Get him back and I agree, we need patience again. The first year is going to be restablishing a culture, and standards, and a way of playing. But by the end of the first season we’ll see it, and the foundations will be laid for season two. And as long as we don’t get relegated, not having Europe next year will mean a style of play will probably start to pay dividends more quickly with him on the training ground.

I think it’s the entirely rational decision to bring him back. There is no one out there who is both as good, as suited to us, and crazily for some insane reason seems to romanticise our club. But it’s because he knows he’s right for us like we are for him.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think it’s one of those that people see as an emotional decision (getting back with your ex) but actually it’s entirely rational. And actually the emotions and incorrect, irrational decision at the time was to sack him in the first place.

This was a clearly wildly talented manager with real charisma, who turned down the chance to go to Real Madrid to stay with us despite going more than one transfer window without signing a player. He could have been our Fergie. I think he knows too that his strengths are in developing players, building unity, setting standards and building a culture. We blew all that up by sacking him, and I think it was the stupidest thing this club has done probably going back to the Sugar years.

Get him back and I agree, we need patience again. The first year is going to be restablishing a culture, and standards, and a way of playing. But by the end of the first season we’ll see it, and the foundations will be laid for season two. And as long as we don’t get relegated, not having Europe next year will mean a style of play will probably start to pay dividends more quickly with him on the training ground.

I think it’s the entirely rational decision to bring him back. There is no one out there who is both as good, as suited to us, and crazily for some insane reason seems to romanticise our club. But it’s because he knows he’s right for us like we are for him.
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Pochettino coming back and succeeding here would be a beautiful thing. I don't think there's a scenario imaginable that would top it.
 
billyiddo said:
Pochettino coming back and succeeding here would be a beautiful thing. I don't think there's a scenario imaginable that would top it.
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Agreed! When the links appeared a couple of summers ago I woke up my wife excited (we were in Texas at the time) and I really thought it was going to happen. My wife still reminds me of it to this day. It’s one of the strangest things I’ve done with her because she has no interest in football outside of Man United in the late 90s.

Let’s rectify the horrible mistake and get back on the path we never should have left! And let’s please not get relegated so this can all actually happen!
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Agreed! When the links appeared a couple of summers ago I woke up my wife excited (we were in Texas at the time) and I really thought it was going to happen. My wife still reminds me of it to this day. It’s one of the strangest things I’ve done with her because she has no interest in football outside of Man United in the late 90s.

Let’s rectify the horrible mistake and get back on the path we never should have left! And let’s please not get relegated so this can all actually happen!
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I think with Poch he would come back whatever league we were in. Let's face it if last time around is anything tognonby he would need a nigh on total revamp of the squad anyway.
 
I was a big fan when he came in but hes underwhelmed and it's clear there's no plan or style coming along - usually by now you can see what a manager is trying to do but there's been none of that.

Glad he's gone (I bet he's secretly relieved as well) - just need someone to come in and get 3/4 wins and that should be enough.

I hope we also take the opportunity to clear others like Lange out as well.
 
Robspur12 said:
Not because of Ange though. That's what I am trying to say. It's was because the 3 teams occupying the bottom 3 were uniquely bad. We still lost at various points to 2 of them I believe.
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“we only stayed up because everyone else was brick” is the new “we only won the Europa League because of the teams in the competition.”

The League form was brick last season. I literally have never seen anyone say it was good. The league form, position, finishing 17th or anything else around that was never the point in wanting to keep Ange. It’s incredible that people still can’t see that given all that’s occurred since.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
My first reaction to reading that was is this really supposed to be journalism? Then I realised it was the Telegraph (which used to be decent despite being diametrically opposed to my own views) but is now no better than the red tops.
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Indeed, The Telegraph is a rag and it is also yet another ingredient of what was going on coming to light. Someone/some people have fed that within hours. It's trashy but it isn't a lie.

I said a few weeks back I was happy as a fan Romero spoke up, and that the club should've fined him, made a statement, and got him under control. He was the biggest public example of how flaccid the 'leadership' was, but it's been rotting fast for a while. Some will say its the players, some will say management, some will say Levy built this mess, some will say the Lewis family thought it was easy to run a club until they started getting abused themselves. Many parts to the rot, but the fact is the air and vibe needs a supercharge and the bloke who was in charge of the players simply wasn't. IMO this should've happened at Xmas, before selling Johnson, before buying Gallagher. And the job needs to be completed in the summer with Lange's dismissal. I think it is clear the Lewis family have acted, not the 'dynamic duo'.

The drama's only warming up IMO. Right now, it is about finding 4 wins and 12 points, albeit if 9 of those come against Leeds, Forest and Palace we'll be fine with just 9...
 
DubaiSpur said:
Think it's a question of sequencing mate. Most coaches, I think, do both, but it's the order they do it in that defines them. We've tended to do better as a club with idealists who first prioritize imposing our own style, over adapting to others. But that doesn't mean they don't do the latter, just that it's not the first thing they do.

Ange, Poch and Harry were idealists. Mourinho, Nuno and Frank, pragmatists. AVB was in a sort of halfway house, though the style he imposed was largely 'give it to Bale'.

The last pragmatist who got a sustained tune out of the squad was...I think BMJ?
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Precisely! It is a matter of who and what you focus on -first-, not that it is your only focus. And which tools you use to the greatest effect to hurt the opposition.

The main problem with being reactive, opposition focused first is that it is much more predictable. In 99,99% of the cases, if we and our staff has identified a weak point in someone elses squad or main gameplan, they know it themselves also. They can tinker their approach with quite a good understanding of how TF will approach the game, how he will respond to an adjustment, and so on. Because he is always one step behind. This means they can have their "plan", their real plan, and their backup-plan laid out with a fair bit of certainty. Now, there is far less 4D-chess going about then some think, but there are some.

That does not mean it can't work. He has shown it can work. And certain "masterclass"-managers has shown it can work. But when it does not work... well, we certainly know what that looks like.
 
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