This Paolo Di Canio Business

[Bonsaiboy]

Re: O/T Manager Sack Watch

I have three kids.

Edit: But I get your point.

You have my respect, I have a GHod son - who lacks a proper father - and am in the process of acquiring a step son - who lacks the same. Three full time would overwhelm me personally and I wouldn't be up to it.

 

[DHSF]

Not sure why any of this is given any attention by anyone in all honesty (I understand why by Sky etc but us mere mortals or anyone not in media)

I do not give a brick what players, managers or coaches do in their spare time or outside of football as long as they perform on the pitch or off the pitch (in a managers or coaches case).

Why would I give a brick that Rooney shagged a granny? or that Johnson stole a toilet seat or something? Who. the. fudge. cares. Its nonsensical. Its Di Canio's life let him live it the way he wants to.

I liek Di Canio and I think he wilbe a very good Manager, whether he keeps Sunderland up or not I dont know but the damage will have already been done.

 

[Baleforce]

he did, and he was punished, like Terry and Suarez he served his ban and paid his fine

unless he transgresses again should he not be allowed the same treatment that anyone else would get?

 

[thfcsteff]

actions that don't persecute but inspire others to persecute ?

gonna need some examples there mate

If this fudging idiot inspires the BNP and perhaps some more extreme racist elements to start going to the Stadium of brick because of this, then I think it's fair to say Di Canio has been a motivation.

He was given a chance to explain himself clearly, and he took it. He said he doesn't discriminate, yet he would not denounce rumors that he is a fascist or address the photos from his Lazio days.

Bonsaiboy brought up some decent point with regards to the misappropriation of language, but the truth is MOST people see fascism and racism as the same thing, and in a further truth, they generally ARE in modern society. Although fascism began as 'claimed to oppose discrimination based on social class and was strongly opposed to all forms of class war. Fascism instead supported nationalist sentiments such as a strong unity, regardless of class' (yes, lifted from wikipedia for convenience, apologies) it always carried racist beliefs. Mussolini and the slavs, Mussolini and his views of colonizing African nations because 'whites were superior to blacks', the truth is however much people try to wriggle around it, the two ideologies share a lot and have become (in the modern world) synonymous with racist beliefs. Whether that's due to 'language misappropriation' is one thing, the fact is it's a reality.

A reality which Di Canio needs to recognize, and fast.

My opinion personally, is that the guy is not a racist, that he is a fiercely proud Italian who believes in a strong Italy and that he actually doesn't understand the deeper nuances of the statements he has made or the identities he has chosen to align with. I think he's a bit of a nutter in short. Oh, and a fudging taco. But there we are...

What some journo needs to do is ask him about his thoughts on some of Mussolini's policies. Let's see if he even knows them beyond the surface.

One thing is for sure, that idiot Short has dropped a double gonad; Di Canio's 'style' could go tits up in a premiership dressing room (especially if he tries to rule it like a 'dictatorial bully') and his ties to this ideology do not bode well for Sunderland as a club.

 

[thfcsteff]

Not sure why any of this is given any attention by anyone in all honesty (I understand why by Sky etc but us mere mortals or anyone not in media)

I do not give a brick what players, managers or coaches do in their spare time or outside of football as long as they perform on the pitch or off the pitch (in a managers or coaches case).

Why would I give a brick that Rooney shagged a granny? or that Johnson stole a toilet seat or something? Who. the. fudge. cares. Its nonsensical. Its Di Canio's life let him live it the way he wants to.

I liek Di Canio and I think he wilbe a very good Manager, whether he keeps Sunderland up or not I dont know but the damage will have already been done.

The only difference I can see mate, is that Rooney didn't wear his granny-shagging on his public sleeve, Johnson didn't roll around showing his stolen toilet, but Di Canio has appropriated his private beliefs into a public 'element' of his personna. When you aggressively offer the 'recognized' nazi salute to people in 'celebration' and claim it is part of your fascist belief system, I think you should expect to be asked about it.

 

[thfcsteff]

only if they can't separate their beliefs from their work.

How does a racist teacher teach history?

 

[billyiddo]

Mussolini and his views of colonizing African nations because 'whites were superior to blacks

can't say im all too clued up on the matter but was reading one of the posts the other day which had a quote from Mussolini where he was outright dismissing the notion of genetic superiority.

 

[Baleforce]

that argument was put forward by someone on the radio yesterday, although they used the EDL rather than the BNP, I might be wrong about this but I figured they would be far more concerned with the job not going to an Englishman

 

[billyiddo]

How does a racist teacher teach history?

from the syllabus like all the others

 

[milo]

If this fudging idiot inspires the BNP and perhaps some more extreme racist elements to start going to the Stadium of brick because of this, then I think it's fair to say Di Canio has been a motivation.

He was given a chance to explain himself clearly, and he took it. He said he doesn't discriminate, yet he would not denounce rumors that he is a fascist or address the photos from his Lazio days.

Bonsaiboy brought up some decent point with regards to the misappropriation of language, but the truth is MOST people see fascism and racism as the same thing, and in a further truth, they generally ARE in modern society. Although fascism began as 'claimed to oppose discrimination based on social class and was strongly opposed to all forms of class war. Fascism instead supported nationalist sentiments such as a strong unity, regardless of class' (yes, lifted from wikipedia for convenience, apologies) it always carried racist beliefs. Mussolini and the slavs, Mussolini and his views of colonizing African nations because 'whites were superior to blacks', the truth is however much people try to wriggle around it, the two ideologies share a lot and have become (in the modern world) synonymous with racist beliefs. Whether that's due to 'language misappropriation' is one thing, the fact is it's a reality.

A reality which Di Canio needs to recognize, and fast.

My opinion personally, is that the guy is not a racist, that he is a fiercely proud Italian who believes in a strong Italy and that he actually doesn't understand the deeper nuances of the statements he has made or the identities he has chosen to align with. I think he's a bit of a nutter in short. Oh, and a fudging taco. But there we are...

What some journo needs to do is ask him about his thoughts on some of Mussolini's policies. Let's see if he even knows them beyond the surface.

One thing is for sure, that idiot Short has dropped a double gonad; Di Canio's 'style' could go tits up in a premiership dressing room (especially if he tries to rule it like a 'dictatorial bully') and his ties to this ideology do not bode well for Sunderland as a club.

I agree 100%

 

[thfcsteff]

can't say im all too clued up on the matter but was reading one of the posts the other day which had a quote from Mussolini where he was outright dismissing the notion of genetic superiority.

Mussolini was somewhat of a nutter who flip-flopped on various issues and was simply determined to rule Italy with a jack-booted, iron-fisted police-state sensibility. He adopted Hitler's ideologies in his own Manifesto of Race in the late '30s, and people are split over whether he genuinely believed it or was just trying to get in bed with Hitler. Either way, it's too close for comfort at least and (at worst) it's a massive fudging cop-out and sell-out, one which (to me) firmly makes him a racist. I'd read up on him mate a central figure in modern history for sure and unerringly similar in appearance to a young Alexei Sayle!!!!

 

[billyiddo]

Statement from Paolo Di Canio
Published: 03 April, 2013
by Sunderland AFC
Head coach speaks.
PAOLO DI CANIO, Wednesday 03 April, 2013


“I have clearly stated that I do not wish to speak about matters other than football, however, I have been deeply hurt by the attacks on the football club.
“This is a historic, proud and ethical club and to read and hear some of the vicious and personal accusations is painful. I am an honest man, my values and principles come from my family and my upbringing.
"I feel that I should not have to continually justify myself to people who do not understand this, however I will say one thing only - I am not the man that some people like to portray.
“I am not political, I do not affiliate myself to any organisation, I am not a racist and I do not support the ideology of fascism. I respect everyone.
“I am a football man and this and my family are my focus. Now I will speak only of football.”

.

 

[thfcsteff]

from the syllabus like all the others

you glib fellow!
You know what I'm driving at. I suppose if I'm honest it's absurd to think there aren't teachers out there who have beliefs I would find abhorrent but manage to keep them out of the workplace. So yes, fair point.

 

[thfcsteff]

Statement from Paolo Di Canio
Published: 03 April, 2013
by Sunderland AFC
Head coach speaks.
PAOLO DI CANIO, Wednesday 03 April, 2013


“I have clearly stated that I do not wish to speak about matters other than football, however, I have been deeply hurt by the attacks on the football club.
“This is a historic, proud and ethical club and to read and hear some of the vicious and personal accusations is painful. I am an honest man, my values and principles come from my family and my upbringing.
"I feel that I should not have to continually justify myself to people who do not understand this, however I will say one thing only - I am not the man that some people like to portray.
“I am not political, I do not affiliate myself to any organisation, I am not a racist and I do not support the ideology of fascism. I respect everyone.
“I am a football man and this and my family are my focus. Now I will speak only of football.”
.

Fair enough. I had not seen that statement. I would suggest that my assertion of him and his beliefs might thus be pretty accurate, because he patently does not seem to understand that his Lazio salutes carried an enormous weight with them. Personally I think this will only fall into the background when he addressed that specific moment. Our society has become one engorged on soundbites and instant hits, and this is the one which will haunt him unless he tackles it head on.

 

[milo]

.

I think that trying to paint himself as the victim was misjudged. I think that he and the club have been very badly advised by their media handling advisors.

 

[Spursalot]

I think that trying to paint himself as the victim was misjudged. I think that he and the club have been very badly advised by their media handling advisors.

It could have been worse. T-shirts would not have helped the situation much.

 

[Baleforce]

It could have been worse. T-shirts would not have helped the situation much.

when you look at the Terry and Suarez cases you can forgive Sunderland for thinking this wouldn't get a second look

 

[milo]

It could have been worse. T-shirts would not have helped the situation much.

:ross:

 

[Howard Webb]

This Mussolini chap, he's one of those cheerful facists isn't he? Nothing like Spanish, Portugese, German or British facists, no he's a cuddly widdle Italian who just liked to decorate his office with his own face

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: O/T Manager Sack Watch

Great post - I honestly believe Di Canio did not do it as a Nazi salute but as a Roman salute - which was a stupid thing to do, because it will not be possible for the salute's meaning to be restored to its original one. It's forever tainted and belongs now only in films of a historical nature.

I believe he made a mistake. People, especially when they're still pretty young, deserve to be forgiven for a mistake and given a second chance.

I am glad he did it though and said he was a fascist because it has caused debate across the internet and wider media and provided a good catalyst for people to discuss events of history and learn things from each other.



I spent an hour the other day explaining the concept of irony to my 7 year old nephew. I really can't be bothered to go through it again with you.

Gilzeantoscore... yes, probably best we ignore each other's posts and leave it at that.

Have to say you've nutshelled it really. And in the process given me a new (somewhat optimistic) perspective on the whole Di Canio salute. You're right. It has achieved an important thing in so much as it has made people evaluate, re-evaluate and discuss both fascism and racism. Never a bad thing in the greater sphere of society.
A pleasure discussing this topic with you mate...