This Paolo Di Canio Business

[thfcsteff]

This Mussolini chap, he's one of those cheerful facists isn't he? Nothing like Spanish, Portugese, German or British facists, no he's a cuddly widdle Italian who just liked to decorate his office with his own face

:ross:

Indeed...

Have to say, unrelated to your post, personally I think threads like this with genuine, respectful yet determined discussion are superb!

 

[Bonsaiboy]

Re: O/T Manager Sack Watch

Have to say you've nutshelled it really. And in the process given me a new (somewhat optimistic) perspective on the whole Di Canio salute. You're right. It has achieved an important thing in so much as it has made people evaluate, re-evaluate and discuss both fascism and racism. Never a bad thing in the greater sphere of society.
A pleasure discussing this topic with you mate...

Dito

 

[DHSF]

The only difference I can see mate, is that Rooney didn't wear his granny-shagging on his public sleeve, Johnson didn't roll around showing his stolen toilet, but Di Canio has appropriated his private beliefs into a public 'element' of his personna. When you aggressively offer the 'recognized' nazi salute to people in 'celebration' and claim it is part of your fascist belief system, I think you should expect to be asked about it.

He did and youre right but a) that happened a hell of a long time ago and b) whilst he did the whole nazi salute he did it in a country where it is 'appropriate' and 'associated with'. If he had done it in this country on the weekend then granted he should be questioned and rightly so.

As long as his beliefs do not get on the football arena here then he can do what he likes I suppose.

Its funny, as someone mentioned earlier, how this is brought up now and not two years ago when he took over Swindon or X years ago when he 'aired' his political views with the nazi salute.

 

[milo]

Its funny, as someone mentioned earlier, how this is brought up now and not two years ago when he took over Swindon or X years ago when he 'aired' his political views with the nazi salute.

It was brought up when he took over at Swindon (the GMB withdrew its sponsorship in protest for a start), it just got less coverage because they are lower profile.

 

[Hootnow]

can't say im all too clued up on the matter but was reading one of the posts the other day which had a quote from Mussolini where he was outright dismissing the notion of genetic superiority.

These are some of Mussolini's 'finer' moments...

"I've been racist since 1921," he proudly told his mistress on a boating trip on August 4, 1938, two years before Italy declared war on Britain.



In another diary entry, Mussolini rails against Italians in Italy's African colonies having relationships with locals.

"Every time I get a report from Africa, it makes me upset. Just today, another five arrested for living with blacks. Ah! These dirty Italians, they are destroying in less than seven years an empire. They have no consciousness of race."


When dealing with such a race as Slavic - inferior and barbarian - we must not pursue the carrot, but the stick policy.... We should not be afraid of new victims.... The Italian border should run across the Brenner Pass, Monte Nevoso and the Dinaric Alps.... I would say we can easily sacrifice 500,000 barbaric Slavs for 50,000 Italians....

For people who've read up thoroughly on Mussolini and who still claim that he or Italian Fascists weren't racist, I'm not really sure what to say to be honest.

There are others as well. At various points, he acknowledged that there was no 'pure race' and that it was all you needed to be fiercely proud of being Italian but it is beyond doubt old Benito.

Apparently last year, Swindon Town issued a formal apology to Jonathan Tehoue after Di Canio said something about him to the other players.

I reckon Di Canio at heart only believes in a strong Italy and a link with the fans of his beloved Lazio. I don't think he hates blacks or Slavs. But his views are stupid and out of date unfortunately.

 

[Hootnow]

He did and youre right but a) that happened a hell of a long time ago and b) whilst he did the whole nazi salute he did it in a country where it is 'appropriate' and 'associated with'. If he had done it in this country on the weekend then granted he should be questioned and rightly so.

As long as his beliefs do not get on the football arena here then he can do what he likes I suppose.

Its funny, as someone mentioned earlier, how this is brought up now and not two years ago when he took over Swindon or X years ago when he 'aired' his political views with the nazi salute.

It was brought up with the Swindon move but unsurprisingly, no-one, especially internationally, gives a fudge about League 2.

 

[milo]

He did and youre right but a) that happened a hell of a long time ago and b) whilst he did the whole nazi salute he did it in a country where it is 'appropriate' and 'associated with'. If he had done it in this country on the weekend then granted he should be questioned and rightly so.

It is not 'appropriate' in Italy, he got a one game ban and a £4k fine for doing it

 

[Spursalot]

It is not 'appropriate' in Italy, he got a one game ban and a £4k fine for doing it

Whilst a player in Greece got a lifetime national team ban, and a club ban for the rest of the season.

There are obviously differing levels of 'appropriate'.

 

[Hootnow]

Whilst a player in Greece got a lifetime national team ban, and a club ban for the rest of the season.

There are obviously differing levels of 'appropriate'.

Any action which brings about disciplinary action is obviously not appropriate, regardless of how it is viewed in other countries.

And it is different times as well. Di Canio did it years ago. This Greek player did it at a time when the Goldwn Dawn just won 7% of the national vote and anti-Greek violence has been on the rise.

 

[Robspur12]

For many on this board fortunately this is nothing more than an intellectual debate on political ideology mostly if you are not from an ethnic minority or jewish you will not be directly affected by fascism. It's great to hold the opinion that a man can subscribe to any view he likes in his personal life even vile ones such as fascism unless of course you have been a victim of race hate or antisemetic crime or you have fought fascism as many of the war veterans have. The far right salute given by di canio in 2005 engenders fear in members of the ethnic minority or jewish community because, forgetting for a moment the intellectual debates as to whether it is representative of racism or fascism, mostly it means we are going to get a kick in. It's not as if the far right are shrinking violets who keep their views quietly to themselves. Just ask the tottenham fans cut up in Rome by the Lazio fans from whom Di canio hails. We have every right to question di canio's political views as they may attract a far right element to his club and endanger jewish or ethnic supporters.

 

[thfcsteff]

For many on this board fortunately this is nothing more than an intellectual debate on political ideology mostly if you are not from an ethnic minority or jewish you will not be directly affected by fascism. It's great to hold the opinion that a man can subscribe to any view he likes in his personal life even vile ones such as fascism unless of course you have been a victim of race hate or antisemetic crime or you have fought fascism as many of the war veterans have. The far right salute given by di canio in 2005 engenders fear in members of the ethnic minority or jewish community because, forgetting for a moment the intellectual debates as to whether it is racism or fascism, we are there primary target. It's not as if the far right are shrinking violets who keep their views quietly to themselves. Just ask the tottenham fans cut up in Rome by the Lazio fans from whom Di canio hails. We have every right to question di canio's political views as they may attract a far right element to his club and endanger jewish or ethnic supporters.

An excellent, and interesting, post...agreed.

 

[milo]

For many on this board fortunately this is nothing more than an intellectual debate on political ideology mostly if you are not from an ethnic minority or jewish you will not be directly affected by fascism. It's great to hold the opinion that a man can subscribe to any view he likes in his personal life even vile ones such as fascism unless of course you have been a victim of race hate or antisemetic crime or you have fought fascism as many of the war veterans have. The far right salute given by di canio in 2005 engenders fear in members of the ethnic minority or jewish community because, forgetting for a moment the intellectual debates as to whether it is representative of racism or fascism, mostly it means we are going to get a kick in. It's not as if the far right are shrinking violets who keep their views quietly to themselves. Just ask the tottenham fans cut up in Rome by the Lazio fans from whom Di canio hails. We have every right to question di canio's political views as they may attract a far right element to his club and endanger jewish or ethnic supporters.

=D>

 

[billyiddo]

These are some of Mussolini's 'finer' moments...



For people who've read up thoroughly on Mussolini and who still claim that he or Italian Fascists weren't racist, I'm not really sure what to say to be honest.

There are others as well. At various points, he acknowledged that there was no 'pure race' and that it was all you needed to be fiercely proud of being Italian but it is beyond doubt old Benito.

Apparently last year, Swindon Town issued a formal apology to Jonathan Tehoue after Di Canio said something about him to the other players.

I reckon Di Canio at heart only believes in a strong Italy and a link with the fans of his beloved Lazio. I don't think he hates blacks or Slavs. But his views are stupid and out of date unfortunately.

mate, as i said Im not clued up on the subject so firstly thanks for some more insight and secondly - i only commented in reply to Steff (i think it was him) as i had seen a quote a day or two previous which went against his genetic superiority comment

 

[Hootnow]

Exactly. I don't really care what these ideologies might espouse in theory or how all inclusive some supporters or theorists might believe it to be. The reality is that these movements which are entrenched in their ultra-nationalism almost inevitably turn against minorities, whatever minority they may be.

 

[Hootnow]

mate, as i said Im not clued up on the subject so firstly thanks for some more insight and secondly - i only commented in reply to Steff (i think it was him) as i had seen a quote a day or two previous which went against his genetic superiority comment

I know mate, that is why I tried to indicate I wasn't referring to you!

Like I said, I think Di Canio probably doesn't hate non whites or non Italians, just someone who is very proud of his Italian heritage. But his views are very very misplaced.

 

[Bonsaiboy]

The mistress diaries are generally thought to be authentic, but the time during which they were written was the same time Mussolini was going through - and ultimately completing - his metamorphoses from "The Puppeteer" as he saw himself initially, into "The Puppet" he'd originally thought Hitler to be. By that time, there's not much that can be defended about him. Before that time, it's not the case.

He may also have been revising the truth of his own former beliefs to suit this new role.

And, apologies to any women reading, but I somehow doubt she was his mistress because of what was in her mind. And, apologies again, but I have noticed a tendency of some women I've known to only hear what they want to hear - and there's a distinct possibility the views she attributes to him may actually have been more of her own.

The exact truth will probably never be known unless further evidence comes to light.

Mao Tse-tung is another historical figure blighted by his later actions, which diminish some of his earlier very notable achievements.

They both come under the heading of "controversial" and their legacies are open to debate.

Hitler comes under the heading of "Deluded Nutter"

 

[Hootnow]

The Slavs comment came in 1920, does not come from his mistresses' diary and was well before he started getting in bed with Hitler.

 

[Bullet]

I lived in Italy for a while and it is common for them to refer to their major political parties as left wing and right wing and communist and fascist.

It really grates against our British ears as we use Labour and Conservative and our major parties are all pretty central, but in Italy there are some really mental choices - that is why Berlusconi was Prime Minister for so long.

The guy is an idiot with a penchant for bunga bunga parties yet he's worth 4 billion and you're not. He ruled the media and football and politics, with strong right wing views.

Almost none of you know the background of how Paolo di Canio was brought up, but it was not similar to being brought up in Crawley or Sussex and watching John Major and Ian Duncan Smith on the news.

 

[Bonsaiboy]

I lived in Italy for a while and it is common for them to refer to their major political parties as left wing and right wing and communist and fascist.

It really grates against our British ears as we use Labour and Conservative and our major parties are all pretty central, but in Italy there are some really mental choices - that is why Berlusconi was Prime Minister for so long.

The guy is an idiot with a penchant for bunga bunga parties yet he's worth 4 billion and you're not. He ruled the media and football and politics, with strong right wing views.

Almost none of you know the background of how Paolo di Canio was brought up, but it was not similar to being brought up in Crawley or Sussex and watching John Major and Ian Duncan Smith on the news.

It's both a beautiful and infuriating place to live. The architecture, food and people, but the bureaucracy, the corruption and the impenetrable politics - 60+ post war governments tells you a lot about Italy. It's inherently unstable, barely a country at all. It's only been united for 150 years, but the collection of states, republics, etc it used to be still exists today in reality. There's differences in regional identity here, but they're nothing compared to Italy.

Sad truth is, Italy needs a strong man leader - and they tend have less desirable qualities attached to them unfortunately.

 

[jamonserrano]

I think that it is a little more complicated than that. A player has been banned for life from playing for Greece for doing exactly what Di Canio did to the Lazio fans (on two occassions) and in some countries in Europe he could have faced going to prison for making that salute.

[video=youtube;pOl2pbpl2rU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOl2pbpl2rU[/video]