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The youth players/on-loan thread 2016-17

Danishfurniturelover said:
Really wish Poch would give the players a chance to go out and get some league matches, I honestly do not think Kane would have come through had he not gone out on loan so many times, seeing as Poch loves Kane you would think he would look at his history and see it can be of benefit.
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I remember listening to the 5 Live Special on Harry Kane in the lead-up to the Euros. David Pleat was one of the panellists and he gave some insight into Kane's loans - and the benefits of the loan system in general. I recall him saying that the success of a loan is not based purely on the amount of playing time a loanee gets. The whole experience can be valuable in terms of how the player deals with the situation. A few things I remember him listing were the player realising the huge difference between 'men's' football vs development football; having to play in front of crowds numbering several thousands - and dealing with the flak from that crowd; experiencing a dressing room at half time in a game (I think he used the word 'brutal'); being dropped/out of favour/dealing with injury. I am sure there were other things. The point was I think how a loan can also be invaluable for character development and to allow the owning-club to see how the youngster will deal with the challenges (or not).
I understand why Poch might want to keep certain players under his wing but that only works when there are opportunities for playing time. I think it's clear now that Winks will get that, but does this system do a disservice to other players who might be on the fringe but never quite make the break-through?

Yoof said:
Also, one last thing. Fans have this idea of using the Europa as development for the youngsters and I'm all for it but it needs to be done right. There's no point just chucking them all in together or in some half-baked side. I'd like to see Poch go full-strength but supplement it with one or two, perhaps three, young players. Give them the chance to thrive amongst a settled and quality outfit.
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Agree. There is no point setting up our young players to fail. That will do no good for their confidence and will just reduce opportunities when we get knocked out in the early rounds.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I remember about 15 years ago reading an article by someone connected with Juventus that they had a deliberate policy of promoting two youth players to the first team squad a season, any more then that and they would not get enough game time to become a proper part of the squad. I would love to see us do something similar, in 3 years time we would have 6 players from the youth team with 50 + appearances each and saved a load of money, of course they have to be good enough in the first place.

Really wish Poch would give the players a chance to go out and get some league matches, I honestly do not think Kane would have come through had he not gone out on loan so many times, seeing as Poch loves Kane you would think he would look at his history and see it can be of benefit.
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Aren't we pretty much doing that?

Kane, Bentaleb, Mason, Winks, Onomah, CCV is 6 (meaning 2 a year for 3 years). Some of them got going before Pochettino came in, but Poch continued that work. Some of them have been moved on, but that's also to be expected I think. That's ignoring Townsend and only focusing on academy graduates ignoring young talented players signed cheaply like Alli and Dier.

Glenda's Legs said:
I remember listening to the 5 Live Special on Harry Kane in the lead-up to the Euros. David Pleat was one of the panellists and he gave some insight into Kane's loans - and the benefits of the loan system in general. I recall him saying that the success of a loan is not based purely on the amount of playing time a loanee gets. The whole experience can be valuable in terms of how the player deals with the situation. A few things I remember him listing were the player realising the huge difference between 'men's' football vs development football; having to play in front of crowds numbering several thousands - and dealing with the flak from that crowd; experiencing a dressing room at half time in a game (I think he used the word 'brutal'); being dropped/out of favour/dealing with injury. I am sure there were other things. The point was I think how a loan can also be invaluable for character development and to allow the owning-club to see how the youngster will deal with the challenges (or not).
I understand why Poch might want to keep certain players under his wing but that only works when there are opportunities for playing time. I think it's clear now that Winks will get that, but does this system do a disservice to other players who might be on the fringe but never quite make the break-through?



Agree. There is no point setting up our young players to fail. That will do no good for their confidence and will just reduce opportunities when we get knocked out in the early rounds.
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It's clear now, but it wasn't 2-3 weeks ago when Winks was one of those people wanted to see go out on loan. And Winks seems to have a lot of the qualities Pleat said Kane got from his loan experiences.

How about trusting Pochettino on this? He has a lot of experience from Espanyol and Southampton promoting and developing young players and he's continued that good work with us with a clear positive effect.
 
His calmness under pressure, strength and ability to run at players when needed is impressive. But Im still confused what type of player he is? in hat video sometimes he playes very deep. Other times he is very far forward. Was it the team tactics gave him the opportunity to dove tail with another player? i did not see the gmae and have only seen him in his brief first team appearances.
 
From the video, it looks like at that age level, he relies on his physical attributes. I also agree with Sandman's observation - where exactly does he play? CM/DM/AM?
 
Chelsea have narrowly avoided being reported to the Premier League for making an illegal approach to an England Under-16 international at Tottenham Hotspur.

The Times has learnt that Spurs threatened to report their London rivals for tapping up Nya Kirby after learning of his intention to join Chelsea, who subsequently backed off and cancelled the transfer. As a result the 16-year-old midfielder has spent the past few months on trial at several London clubs before Crystal Palace applied to the Premier League to register him last month.
(the rest is behind a paywall)
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/rivals-in-tapping-up-row-09gkc7xbq
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Chelsea have narrowly avoided being reported to the Premier League for making an illegal approach to an England Under-16 international at Tottenham Hotspur.

The Times has learnt that Spurs threatened to report their London rivals for tapping up Nya Kirby after learning of his intention to join Chelsea, who subsequently backed off and cancelled the transfer. As a result the 16-year-old midfielder has spent the past few months on trial at several London clubs before Crystal Palace applied to the Premier League to register him last month.
(the rest is behind a paywall)
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/rivals-in-tapping-up-row-09gkc7xbq
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No shocks there. This will go on all the time now, although why would any youngster go to Chelsea ill never know
 
Bullet said:
The shortsighted pursuit of money, not realising they will miss out on 100 times more when their careers nosedive. Clever people, footballers.
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A lot is to do with their families, my grandsons mate has signed for Chelsea after being courted by Spurs and West Ham. He comes from a single parent family with a younger sister, the money must be a factor for a lot of people.
 
Bullet said:
The shortsighted pursuit of money, not realising they will miss out on 100 times more when their careers nosedive. Clever people, footballers.
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Hang on....is it shortsighted? if as a 16 year old, you're offered £5k per week for 2 years and a realistic, approximate 25% chance of making it into first 11 of a Prem team (and with it a 15 year career earning £75k per week), is it financially stupid to prefer a £50k per week for 4 year deal and a less realistic, approximate 10% chance of making it into the first 11? If you believe in yourself, you'll think you are one of the 10%, but if injury occurs or you're not good enough to make it, at least you've secured £10m. Whereas the 'clever' footballer who gets injured or doesn't quite make it has only got £0.5m to show for his early promise
 
dawaxman said:
Hang on....is it shortsighted? if as a 16 year old, you're offered £5k per week for 2 years and a realistic, approximate 25% chance of making it into first 11 of a Prem team (and with it a 15 year career earning £75k per week), is it financially stupid to prefer a £50k per week for 4 year deal and a less realistic, approximate 10% chance of making it into the first 11? If you believe in yourself, you'll think you are one of the 10%, but if injury occurs or you're not good enough to make it, at least you've secured £10m. Whereas the 'clever' footballer who gets injured or doesn't quite make it has only got £0.5m to show for his early promise
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I think wages are capped low for kids, I was talking about £100k in an envelope, or a car. Not life-changing like £10m
 
Sandman said:
His calmness under pressure, strength and ability to run at players when needed is impressive. But Im still confused what type of player he is? in hat video sometimes he playes very deep. Other times he is very far forward. Was it the team tactics gave him the opportunity to dove tail with another player? i did not see the gmae and have only seen him in his brief first team appearances.
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He's a deep-lying or box-to-box CM, in that game he and Rossiter shared defensive duties rather than there being one dedicated holder.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Chelsea have narrowly avoided being reported to the Premier League for making an illegal approach to an England Under-16 international at Tottenham Hotspur.

The Times has learnt that Spurs threatened to report their London rivals for tapping up Nya Kirby after learning of his intention to join Chelsea, who subsequently backed off and cancelled the transfer. As a result the 16-year-old midfielder has spent the past few months on trial at several London clubs before Crystal Palace applied to the Premier League to register him last month.
(the rest is behind a paywall)
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/rivals-in-tapping-up-row-09gkc7xbq
Click to expand...
I don't understand why they narrowly avoided it? Sounds as though he ended up leaving Spurs because of tapping up from Chelsea? The fact that they then backed out of actually signing him doesn't change the fact that he left our club because of them. Perhaps we should make way over the odds illegal offers for a number of their best youngsters and then pull out at the last minute.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I don't understand why they narrowly avoided it? Sounds as though he ended up leaving Spurs because of tapping up from Chelsea? The fact that they then backed out of actually signing him doesn't change the fact that he left our club because of them. Perhaps we should make way over the odds illegal offers for a number of their best youngsters and then pull out at the last minute.
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Yes it does seem odd. I can only guess that it was some sort of agreement that we would not report them for tapping up if they dropped attempts to sign him and let him try his luck elsewhere. (Maybe at that point we were resigned to him not accepting whatever was on offer from us). Relations are supposedly not great between the two clubs but I guess making a formal complaint is quite a serious step that we may not have wanted to take in this instance (for reasons not obvious to me).
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Yes it does seem odd. I can only guess that it was some sort of agreement that we would not report them for tapping up if they dropped attempts to sign him and let him try his luck elsewhere. (Maybe at that point we were resigned to him not accepting whatever was on offer from us). Relations are supposedly not great between the two clubs but I guess making a formal complaint is quite a serious step that we may not have wanted to take in this instance (for reasons not obvious to me).
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Any similarities with our Zeki Fryers situation with Manure?
 
Finney Is Back said:
I don't understand why they narrowly avoided it? Sounds as though he ended up leaving Spurs because of tapping up from Chelsea? The fact that they then backed out of actually signing him doesn't change the fact that he left our club because of them. Perhaps we should make way over the odds illegal offers for a number of their best youngsters and then pull out at the last minute.
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He was out of contract so to speak so could leave us, however they had tapped him up to leave us before hand which is the breach.

At least that's how I understand it
 
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