The youth players/on-loan thread 2014-2015

[Danishfurniturelover]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...y-just-need-to-be-given-a-chance-9802904.html

I know he is a hate figure around here but I agree with him, will keep an eye out for this Edwards kid as well.

I know one of our youth teams are playing Juventus in a behind closed doors match soon.

Also slightly off topic but from talking to someone in the game, apparently the city training ground complex is so big one time got lost in the underground tunnels. Rather funny, place must be bloody massive.

 

[jimmyb]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...y-just-need-to-be-given-a-chance-9802904.html

I know he is a hate figure around here but I agree with him, will keep an eye out for this Edwards kid as well.

I know one of our youth teams are playing Juventus in a behind closed doors match soon.

Also slightly off topic but from talking to someone in the game, apparently the city training ground complex is so big one time got lost in the underground tunnels. Rather funny, place must be bloody massive.

I agree with his main argument about young English players not being as poor as so many people make out, but the man is a ****ing idiot for talking up such a young player. As it happens, I've seen quite a few clips of Marcus Edwards in action. And he has really impressed me - especially his ability to pick a pass. But the first rule of working within youth football is that you don't talk up young players like that. So much can happen between now and when he matures.

Guaranteed that Spurs' youth coaches will not be thanking Sherwood for this little piece.

It also seems to me, by the way, that Sherwood is following somewhat in his mentor's (Harry's) footsteps by claiming credit for things that others are responsible for.

P.S. City's training ground isn't especially massive. Possibly occupies a smaller site than ours, in fact. Only real difference is that they have also built a a 7K mini stadium on the site.

 

[Spur of the moment]

I agree with his main argument about young English players not being as poor as so many people make out, but the man is a ****ing idiot for talking up such a young player. As it happens, I've seen quite a few clips of Marcus Edwards in action. And he has really impressed me - especially his ability to pick a pass. But the first rule of working within youth football is that you don't talk up young players like that. So much can happen between now and when he matures.

Guaranteed that Spurs' youth coaches will not be thanking Sherwood for this little piece.

It also seems to me, by the way, that Sherwood is following somewhat in his mentor's (Harry's) footsteps by claiming credit for things that others are responsible for.

P.S. City's training ground isn't especially massive. Possibly occupies a smaller site than ours, in fact. Only real difference is that they have also built a a 7K mini stadium on the site.

Spot on, kiss of death. Except hopefully Tom seems the type of player with sufficient character to defy the hype.

 

[jimmyb]

Spot on, kiss of death. Except hopefully Tom seems the type of player with sufficient character to defy the hype.

I should have made myself clearer. I was actually referring to Sherwood's comments about Marcus Edwards. I have no quarrel with his comments about Carroll.

 

[Spur of the moment]

I should have made myself clearer. I was actually referring to Sherwood's comments about Marcus Edwards. I have no quarrel with his comments about Carroll.

Well, re-reading your post looks like I could've / should've worked that one out

 

[Finney Is Back]

I agree with his main argument about young English players not being as poor as so many people make out, but the man is a ****ing idiot for talking up such a young player. As it happens, I've seen quite a few clips of Marcus Edwards in action. And he has really impressed me - especially his ability to pick a pass. But the first rule of working within youth football is that you don't talk up young players like that. So much can happen between now and when he matures.

Guaranteed that Spurs' youth coaches will not be thanking Sherwood for this little piece.

It also seems to me, by the way, that Sherwood is following somewhat in his mentor's (Harry's) footsteps by claiming credit for things that others are responsible for.

P.S. City's training ground isn't especially massive. Possibly occupies a smaller site than ours, in fact. Only real difference is that they have also built a a 7K mini stadium on the site.

I disagree.... Everyone involved in football already knows about Edwards, just about every club wants him and very agency is practically beating down his door. Sherwood hasn't done any harm at all in mentioning him in his column. Also it is unfair to lump Sherwood in with Harry here, as Sherwood was directly involved in the development of lots of our good young players at Spurs, especially being an advocate of many of them getting the 'right' loans. It was actually a shame that Sherwood was promoted to first team coach as he was doing a very good job for us with our development squad.

 

[Spaceman]

I disagree.... Everyone involved in football already knows about Edwards, just about every club wants him and very agency is practically beating down his door. Sherwood hasn't done any harm at all in mentioning him in his column. Also it is unfair to lump Sherwood in with Harry here, as Sherwood was directly involved in the development of lots of our good young players at Spurs, especially being an advocate of many of them getting the 'right' loans. It was actually a shame that Sherwood was promoted to first team coach as he was doing a very good job for us with our development squad.

On the money mate.

 

[jimmyb]

I disagree.... Everyone involved in football already knows about Edwards, just about every club wants him and very agency is practically beating down his door. Sherwood hasn't done any harm at all in mentioning him in his column.

It's not a question of spilling a secret to others who work in football. It's not about some other club stealing him off us.

It's just that Sherwood should know better than to talk up a 15 year old like that. Good youth coaches throughout the game are always very careful to keep a lid on any hype about young players. And rightly so. It's vital to keep young players grounded. Because football's past (and present) is littered with wonderkids who never eventually lived up to their promise. Some never even made it as professionals. There is just so much that can change and so much that can happen to a kid (who is still at school) before he even gets the chance to test himself in first team football.

Also it is unfair to lump Sherwood in with Harry here, as Sherwood was directly involved in the development of lots of our good young players at Spurs, especially being an advocate of many of them getting the 'right' loans. It was actually a shame that Sherwood was promoted to first team coach as he was doing a very good job for us with our development squad.

Anyone reading the article who didn't know better would get the impression that the Spurs academy's philosophy had been directed and established by Sherwood. But he didn't rejoin the club until 2008 - and then only as one of the first team coaches. It wasn't until 2010 that he took over the development role. By then, Tom Carroll had already graduated from the academy and its philosophy had long been set. And not by Sherwood. But by John McDermott.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It's not a question of spilling a secret to others who work in football. It's not about some other club stealing him off us.

It's just that Sherwood should know better than to talk up a 15 year old like that. Good youth coaches throughout the game are always very careful to keep a lid on any hype about young players. And rightly so. It's vital to keep young players grounded. Because football's past (and present) is littered with wonderkids who never eventually lived up to their promise. Some never even made it as professionals. There is just so much that can change and so much that can happen to a kid (who is still at school) before he even gets the chance to test himself in first team football.

Anyone reading the article who didn't know better would get the impression that the Spurs academy's philosophy had been directed and established by Sherwood. But he didn't rejoin the club until 2008 - and then only as one of the first team coaches. It wasn't until 2010 that he took over the development role. By then, Tom Carroll had already graduated from the academy and its philosophy had long been set. And not by Sherwood. But by John McDermott.

I'm not sure you understand mate.... Edward's name appearing in Sherwood's column will make no difference to him remaining grounded (or not) as he is already receiving a huge amount of attention with all sorts of people telling him he is going to be great and wanting to bring him into their organisation "to make sure he is rewarded appropriately for his talent", etc, etc.

Knowing what I know of the youth set up at Spurs I would actually argue the complete opposite to you here and that this message will be taken very positively - specifically around the fact that if you have the talent and do the right things then you will be noticed. It also sends a good message out for Spurs in general where skilful players are concerned - that we concentrate on skill and ability as opposed to physicality. If I were a parent of a young skilfull kid who was wanted by all the usual suspects, reading this article would have a good bearing on steering me towards Spurs for his footballing education.

While you are correct that John McDermott has been responsible for implementing an extremely good model I still think that it is churlish to ignore the impact that Sherwood had since 2010. His job was to provide a better way of progressing our talented youngsters from our youth teams into our first team squad/team. Sherwood did a very good job in providing our talented, young players with that final piece of education and also ensuring that the club didn't give up on some of the talented players even if they hadn't quite made it yet despite being over the age of 21. A case in point here is Ryan Mason, Sherwood was instrumental in him remaining at the club despite taking far longer than expected to fulfill his potential.

This seems to me to simply be another stick to beat Sherwood with when actually none exists.

 

[indianspur]

I disagree.... Everyone involved in football already knows about Edwards, just about every club wants him and very agency is practically beating down his door. Sherwood hasn't done any harm at all in mentioning him in his column. Also it is unfair to lump Sherwood in with Harry here, as Sherwood was directly involved in the development of lots of our good young players at Spurs, especially being an advocate of many of them getting the 'right' loans. It was actually a shame that Sherwood was promoted to first team coach as he was doing a very good job for us with our development squad.

is he that good???

 

[braineclipse]

Interesting read. Cheers all for sharing

 

[jimmyb]

I'm not sure you understand mate.... Edward's name appearing in Sherwood's column will make no difference to him remaining grounded (or not) as he is already receiving a huge amount of attention with all sorts of people telling him he is going to be great and wanting to bring him into their organisation "to make sure he is rewarded appropriately for his talent", etc, etc.

Knowing what I know of the youth set up at Spurs I would actually argue the complete opposite to you here and that this message will be taken very positively - specifically around the fact that if you have the talent and do the right things then you will be noticed. It also sends a good message out for Spurs in general where skilful players are concerned - that we concentrate on skill and ability as opposed to physicality. If I were a parent of a young skilfull kid who was wanted by all the usual suspects, reading this article would have a good bearing on steering me towards Spurs for his footballing education.

While you are correct that John McDermott has been responsible for implementing an extremely good model I still think that it is churlish to ignore the impact that Sherwood had since 2010. His job was to provide a better way of progressing our talented youngsters from our youth teams into our first team squad/team. Sherwood did a very good job in providing our talented, young players with that final piece of education and also ensuring that the club didn't give up on some of the talented players even if they hadn't quite made it yet despite being over the age of 21. A case in point here is Ryan Mason, Sherwood was instrumental in him remaining at the club despite taking far longer than expected to fulfill his potential.

This seems to me to simply be another stick to beat Sherwood with when actually none exists.

No, I do understand perfectly well.

It's no accident that no sensible youth coach will talk up young players like that.

The point about keeping young players' feet on the ground was a general one rather than specific to Marcus Edwards. Of course everyone within football knows about him and of course agents are buzzing around him. But it's one thing being talked about within football; quite another to be talked about in a national newspaper (and thereafter, of course, all over the Spurs speaking internet). He really doesn't need the extra burden of being in the public limelight at such a young age. The vast majority of Spurs fans will never have heard of him before that article - let alone football fans more generally.

As to Sherwood actually having helped Spurs' cause (when recruiting young players) by talking about Marcus Edwards like that, I'm sorry, mate, but that's a stretch. If a kid is good enough to interest a club like Spurs, then any good parent will conduct due diligence and find out each club's youth philosophy; how they treat the kids who make it; how they treat those who don't; how small kids get on; whether or not skill is prioritised; how many academy graduates make it to the first team; how many others at least go on to decent careers in football etc.....they aren't going to base their decision on an article in a newspaper written by a man who doesn't even work at the club any more.

As to the rest, I don't doubt that Sherwood did some good in his role as head of development. But, as I said, the article gave the impression that Sherwood himself set the youth philosophy at Spurs. And that is simply not true.

 

[Spaceman]

is he that good???

absolutely fantastic talent and yes everyone involved in youth football knows about him. but he's at that age where he can go either way, he hasnt even had a start at U18 level yet and hes getting all this attention. lets hope he stays humble and focused

 

[indianspur]

No, I do understand perfectly well.

It's no accident that no sensible youth coach will talk up young players like that.

The point about keeping young players' feet on the ground was a general one rather than specific to Marcus Edwards. Of course everyone within football knows about him and of course agents are buzzing around him. But it's one thing being talked about within football; quite another to be talked about in a national newspaper (and thereafter, of course, all over the Spurs speaking internet). He really doesn't need the extra burden of being in the public limelight at such a young age. The vast majority of Spurs fans will never have heard of him before that article - let alone football fans more generally.

As to Sherwood actually having helped Spurs' cause (when recruiting young players) by talking about Marcus Edwards like that, I'm sorry, mate, but that's a stretch. If a kid is good enough to interest a club like Spurs, then any good parent will conduct due diligence and find out each club's youth philosophy; how they treat the kids who make it; how they treat those who don't; how small kids get on; whether or not skill is prioritised; how many academy graduates make it to the first team; how many others at least go on to decent careers in football etc.....they aren't going to base their decision on an article in a newspaper written by a man who doesn't even work at the club any more.

As to the rest, I don't doubt that Sherwood did some good in his role as head of development. But, as I said, the article gave the impression that Sherwood himself set the youth philosophy at Spurs. And that is simply not true.

very true, id never heard of him and tbh for once im thankful to gobby Tim for introducing me to the talent of Edwards. Because of that article, and other comments from posters on here, I checked out youtube and found some England youth highlights featuring Edwards and ive seen that its true he seems quite an excellent prospect. For such a young kid his awareness, movement, intelligence and passing seems top class. To know that he is on Spurs books just brings a bit of hope, a ray of sunshine for the future during these difficult times and upheaval we are currently going through. It may not work out for the kid, who knows, but yeah im happy when i read comments from youtube posters asking "who is that no 16, whats his name, who does he play for, he is gonna be some player, wowww"

 

[indianspur]

absolutely fantastic talent and yes everyone involved in youth football knows about him. but he's at that age where he can go either way, he hasnt even had a start at U18 level yet and hes getting all this attention. lets hope he stays humble and focused

yeah, hopefully he stays grounded. He looks like a mini Willian/BAE combo. Top talent anyway

 

[tw12yid]

Anyone who is south west london based or just interested, the u21's are playing a friendly at Hampton & Richmond tonight. £5 to get in i'm told.

 

[Finney Is Back]

No, I do understand perfectly well.

It's no accident that no sensible youth coach will talk up young players like that.

The point about keeping young players' feet on the ground was a general one rather than specific to Marcus Edwards. Of course everyone within football knows about him and of course agents are buzzing around him. But it's one thing being talked about within football; quite another to be talked about in a national newspaper (and thereafter, of course, all over the Spurs speaking internet). He really doesn't need the extra burden of being in the public limelight at such a young age. The vast majority of Spurs fans will never have heard of him before that article - let alone football fans more generally.

As to Sherwood actually having helped Spurs' cause (when recruiting young players) by talking about Marcus Edwards like that, I'm sorry, mate, but that's a stretch. If a kid is good enough to interest a club like Spurs, then any good parent will conduct due diligence and find out each club's youth philosophy; how they treat the kids who make it; how they treat those who don't; how small kids get on; whether or not skill is prioritised; how many academy graduates make it to the first team; how many others at least go on to decent careers in football etc.....they aren't going to base their decision on an article in a newspaper written by a man who doesn't even work at the club any more.

As to the rest, I don't doubt that Sherwood did some good in his role as head of development. But, as I said, the article gave the impression that Sherwood himself set the youth philosophy at Spurs. And that is simply not true.

In that case I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here. There is no 'extra burden' on Marcus. The expectation on him is already extremely high, as I said before he is already considered to be the "next big thing" the player already knows this, but is serious about his football and knows he has to continue to listen, learn and work hard if he wants to make use of his talent. His development is being handled excellently at Spurs and with the England set up. I'll try to find out how Sherwood's comments were thought of by the academy staff at the club, but knowing many of them as I do I think they will be happy for themselves and for Marcus.

I also disagree with you that the article gives the impression that Sherwood himself set the youth philosophy at Spurs. I don't see anywhere where Sherwood or the author try to claim this. The article merely allows Sherwood to express his views on the young talent coming through in England, talk about what it is he looks for in a young player and what specifically interested him in the reports from the youth coaches.

Everything that Sherwood says in that article is correct. England are now producing very good, young, technical footballers - that are just as good (and even better) than those being produced by the more lauded 'technical' countries around Europe. At Spurs and with the England youth age groups those technical footballers are now being properly nurtured and encouraged (IMO it was a great day for English football when Southgate took over from Pearce as the under 21 head coach as I felt the excellent development through the age group teams wasn't flowing through to the under 21s).

Something that Tim hasn't talked about in that article is how not all academies are adopting the same approach as Spurs. I have seen numerous games where the opposition's youth team is playing a percentage game with a number of big, physical players with little desire to play with skill or the for the players to express themselves.

As I said before - it seems to me that some take any stick they can to beat Sherwood with, inventing their own negatives when none actually exist. Personally I found the article good to read and informative. Like I said before it's a shame that THFC/Tim found it necessary to move up to the Head Coach's job at Spurs because he was very good in that development squad role that he had.

Oh and indianspur - yes he is that good. Arguably the highest rated prospect at his age group in the country.

 

[Jordinho]

Tottenham Hotspur @SpursOfficial

Spurs (v Hampton & Richmond Borough): Voss, Walkes, Ball, Ogilvie, McQueen, Lesniak, Winks, Onomah, Sonupe, Miller, Akindayini
Spurs subs (v Hampton & Richmond Borough): Harrison, Georgiou, Goddard, Miles (GK)

Hampton take an early lead as Ogilvie's clearance rebounds off De Freitas and Bignell blasts home from the edge of the box. 1-0, 3mins
GOAL! Winks' corner finds its way through to McQueen, who finishes well from the edge of the box into the bottom corner. 1-1, 20mins
HT: Hampton & Richmond Borough 1-1 Spurs Development Squad - Defence containing lively home side, Akindayini close twice at other end

 

[braineclipse]

Tottenham Hotspur @SpursOfficial

Spurs (v Hampton & Richmond Borough): Voss, Walkes, Ball, Ogilvie, McQueen, Lesniak, Winks, Onomah, Sonupe, Miller, Akindayini
Spurs subs (v Hampton & Richmond Borough): Harrison, Georgiou, Goddard, Miles (GK)

Hampton take an early lead as Ogilvie's clearance rebounds off De Freitas and Bignell blasts home from the edge of the box. 1-0, 3mins
GOAL! Winks' corner finds its way through to McQueen, who finishes well from the edge of the box into the bottom corner. 1-1, 20mins
HT: Hampton & Richmond Borough 1-1 Spurs Development Squad - Defence containing lively home side, Akindayini close twice at other end

Anyone notice any youth players missing from that meaning that they might be in line for an appearance on Thursday?

 

[jimmyb]

Anyone notice any youth players missing from that meaning that they might be in line for an appearance on Thursday?

Nathan Oduwa (winger / forward) - but he's currently injured, I think.

Luke McGee (keeper) - but wouldn't Lloris, Vorm and Friedel be ahead of him?

Cameron Carter Vickers (central defender) - still only 16, so highly unlikely to be called up (even though he did play the other day for U.S.A under 23's).

Kyle Walker Peters (right back) - could possibly be in the reckoning because we have injury problems in that position, but he is only 17 and probably not yet ready to deal with the strength of senior players.