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The Winger Thread

SUIYHA

SUIYHA

Scott Parker
One thing this World Cup should have highlighted for you, if it wasn't already obvious, is how bad our wingers were last season. When you look at how our rivals have the likes of Hazard, Schurrle, Willian, Sterling, Navas, Nasri etc when we were making do with Lennon, Townsend and Chadli, or by shoe-horning Lamela, Eriksen or Sigurdsson into the wrong position, it's not hard to see why they scored so many more goals than us last season.

I'd like to see what Poch can do with Townsend and Lamela. But even then, I don't think Lamela's best position is a winger and even if he suddenly morphs into Bale MK2, it still won't be enough IMO. Other than a brief spike in the first half of AVB's first season, Lennon has been on a downward trajectory since 2010 and Chadli is clearly nowhere near good enough.

The likes of Depay, Konoplyanka, Brahimi and Lallana have all been linked quite strongly with us, with others mentioning players like Shaqiri, Ayew, Griezmann and Valbuena as signings that would be of interest. Question now is what we should be looking for? A direct player on his natural side? Somebody who cuts in? A left/right sider? A wide forward vs a deeper wide midfielder? Someone who scores a lot of goals themselves or just creates for their team mates?

Thoughts?
 
Goals..if we play one striker then the attackers around/behind him have to contribute plenty of goals too.
 
AberYid said:
If there is any remote chance of us signing Valbuena we should be all over it.
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We'd have to tailor his kit better than the crapauds, who made him look like a midget.

His play impressed me though, perhaps one of the best match performances in the tournament so far.
 
braineclipse said:
29 and coming out of an impressive World Cup campaign, he will be really expensive and sought after if he moves at all.
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A commentator mentioned that this season will likely be his last at Marseilles, are there contract issues we could exploit? I think if we want him, we could get him, and probably for less than £12m. Sell Lennon or Chadli, get Valbuena in. Great business.
 
braineclipse said:
29 and coming out of an impressive World Cup campaign, he will be really expensive and sought after if he moves at all.
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Exactly the reason I didn't think we'd even look at him, but then again after we signed Soldado last summer you never know I guess...


Another name I'd like to bring up again is Hatem Ben Arfa. I know I've been banging the drum on this one for a while, but he's only got a year left on his contract, is out of favour with his club, 27 years old, has Premiership experience, can play on either wing or in the number 10 role, can beat a man, has pace to burn, can score goals, including the odd spectacular goal, would probably end up being a massive fans favourite, and of course we've got a good track record of signing French wingers from Saudi Sportswashing Machine. As we could maybe even get him for less than £5m, I think we'd be stupid not to. Only doubts would be about his injury record and also whether he's got the stomach for Poch's double sessions, but at that price he's an infinitely better option to us than Chadli.
 
SUIYHA said:
Another name I'd like to bring up again is Hatem Ben Arfa. I know I've been banging the drum on this one for a while, but he's only got a year left on his contract, is out of favour with his club, 27 years old, has Premiership experience, can play on either wing or in the number 10 role, can beat a man, has pace to burn, can score goals, including the odd spectacular goal, would probably end up being a massive fans favourite, and of course we've got a good track record of signing French wingers from Saudi Sportswashing Machine. As we could maybe even get him for less than £5m, I think we'd be stupid not to. Only doubts would be about his injury record and also whether he's got the stomach for Poch's double sessions, but at that price he's an infinitely better option to us than Chadli.
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I wouldn't go anywhere near Ben Arfa. The fact that he hasn't been able to cement a place in a reasonably poor Saudi Sportswashing Machine team says it all to me. Bags of talent, but a poor attitude and work rate. Plays completely for himself instead of playing for the team. From what I can make out Pochettino's gameplan involves every member of the team working for the team. I think that every player that we sign has to be a team player, otherwise the system will fail.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I wouldn't go anywhere near Ben Arfa. The fact that he hasn't been able to cement a place in a reasonably poor Saudi Sportswashing Machine team says it all to me. Bags of talent, but a poor attitude and work rate. Plays completely for himself instead of playing for the team. From what I can make out Pochettino's gameplan involves every member of the team working for the team. I think that every player that we sign has to be a team player, otherwise the system will fail.
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Perhaps...but I also saw him "play for a team" that only missed on out Champions League football on the last day of the season when many people had tipped them to get relegated that year. We think he's not going to pull his weight? Simple solution - appearance bonuses. You make yourself undroppable, you get paid a lot more.

Give me someone who we can play the ball to out wide that will then skin two opposition defenders and get a shot on goal when "playing for himself" over someone who will get tackled or hit a cross out for a throw-in for the good of the team any day of the week. Some of the best players in the history of the Premier League were signed as supposed bad eggs, more interested in themselves than the team see Cantona, Van Persie, Di Canio etc. Like the Nike advert, we need to take a few risks, and at this price level, we could afford for him to have half a good season before going off the boil. Potentially though, under a manager he rates and respects, with other good players around him to cover and do a bit more of the defensive work, we could have an outstanding player on our hands.
 
SUIYHA said:
Perhaps...but I also saw him "play for a team" that only missed on out Champions League football on the last day of the season when many people had tipped them to get relegated that year. We think he's not going to pull his weight? Simple solution - appearance bonuses. You make yourself undroppable, you get paid a lot more.

Give me someone who we can play the ball to out wide that will then skin two opposition defenders and get a shot on goal when "playing for himself" over someone who will get tackled or hit a cross out for a throw-in for the good of the team any day of the week. Some of the best players in the history of the Premier League were signed as supposed bad eggs, more interested in themselves than the team see Cantona, Van Persie, Di Canio etc. Like the Nike advert, we need to take a few risks, and at this price level, we could afford for him to have half a good season before going off the boil. Potentially though, under a manager he rates and respects, with other good players around him to cover and do a bit more of the defensive work, we could have an outstanding player on our hands.
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Nice theory.... Now try to get him/his agent to agree to that sort of contract? Every player/agent will want to protect himself/his client from periods of injury/suspension/falling out of favour. Those sorts of contracts may work on Football Manager type games but in the real world those deals don't happen (other than for players with a poor injury record where that is the only type of deal that they can get).

While I agree with you in part about having a player who can do something special, I think perhaps you fail to realise how important team players are to the sort of shape and system that Pochettino wants. One single player not doing his bit will create the route out of defence for the opposition, nullifying our other players hard pressing work and also exposing us defensively due to the high press. What is wrong with having a player who is gifted AND plays for the team? (they do exist you know!)
 
Finney Is Back said:
Nice theory.... Now try to get him/his agent to agree to that sort of contract? Every player/agent will want to protect himself/his client from periods of injury/suspension/falling out of favour. Those sorts of contracts may work on Football Manager type games but in the real world those deals don't happen (other than for players with a poor injury record where that is the only type of deal that they can get).

While I agree with you in part about having a player who can do something special, I think perhaps you fail to realise how important team players are to the sort of shape and system that Pochettino wants. One single player not doing his bit will create the route out of defence for the opposition, nullifying our other players hard pressing work and also exposing us defensively due to the high press. What is wrong with having a player who is gifted AND plays for the team? (they do exist you know!)
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Firstly, you can make it a bonus, not a clause that they get paid. Nobody is going to accept £20k per week with a £50k bonus. But if the incentive is there to make more money, players like that kind of thing.

Yes - gifted players who play for the team do exist. But they tend to be one hell of a lot more expensive than Ben Arfa, and more in demand from our rivals who can offer them more than we can. We can either blow our entire transfer budget on one winger, sign a crap player like Chadli who "works really hard" in the hope that he'll suddenly develop the technical skills he's never had, or we can take a risk with someone at a low price with the raw attributes in the hope that our manager who has a reputation as a motivator, can motivate him.
 
Konoplyanka or Griezmann for me. Both have contract situations that can be exploited to get them reasonably.

Konoplyanka and Chadli on the left, Lamela and Townsend on the right is a strong foursome IMO - all pretty versatile too.

Of those Lamela and Townsend are the more direct options. Lamela is about as close to Poch's Jay Rodriguez role as there is. Kono and Chadli are a little bit less direct and play deeper/are stronger defensively. All 4 are inverted, which is pretty much essential for wide players these days.
 
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Don't think the wingers situation in the squad is that bad, I think there is talent there that just needs some work. I think none of our wingers or wide players last season showed anywhere near like their full potential. Pochettino will be tasked with improving that, but Lennon, Townsend, Lamela and Chadli all have potential to be good players, plus Sigurdsson and Eriksen have both looked good as inverted wide forwards at times. Didn't seem like his Espanyol or Southampton teams favoured that out and out winger role anyway.

Think there are more pressing squad priorities, I'd say defence is the weakest area of the squad.
 
SUIYHA said:
Firstly, you can make it a bonus, not a clause that they get paid. Nobody is going to accept £20k per week with a £50k bonus. But if the incentive is there to make more money, players like that kind of thing.

Yes - gifted players who play for the team do exist. But they tend to be one hell of a lot more expensive than Ben Arfa, and more in demand from our rivals who can offer them more than we can. We can either blow our entire transfer budget on one winger, sign a crap player like Chadli who "works really hard" in the hope that he'll suddenly develop the technical skills he's never had, or we can take a risk with someone at a low price with the raw attributes in the hope that our manager who has a reputation as a motivator, can motivate him.
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I don't understand.... Are you saying we should pay Ben Arfa a good wage and then also give him a bonus if he plays? Is this just a standard appearance bonus? (which is usually implemented in contracts as a 'win bonus' for any player in the squad who gets minutes on the pitch (wth respect to this - have you ever wondered why managers often put a player on with just a minute to go?.... Now you know) So if you are talking about this standard type of bonus the he will be receiving currently at Saudi Sportswashing Machine where it clearly doesn't motivate him to play for the team - then how are we to motivate him via this same means at Spurs?

If you are talking about an additional bonus for him, then why should Ben Arfa get this additional bonus when our other players do not? Do you not feel that this would create disharmony in the squad with one particular player given extra incentive that they are not receiving?

For argument's sake let's assume that Ben Arfa would command a wage of £60k a week.... How much of it do you think should be comprised of this additional bonus you talk about?

You talk about Chadli as a crap player who works really hard. I'm not sure I have seen much evidence of Chadli working really hard, in fact if he did work hard then I think he might be a useful player (as he definitely has technical skills)

Maybe you and I are just different but I would prefer not to sign a player who has already shown a poor attitude in English football, especially if that player is at an age where he would've grown up and changed that attitude already if he was ever going to do so.

Gifted players who play for the team do not have to be out of our price range.... Look at the Athletico Madrid team from last season as an example or perhaps better still last season's Southampton team. Should we not put all our efforts into signing players who we know are likely to have the attitude that Pochettino demands from his players as opposed to signing one who has to this point in his career largely demonstrated that he doesn't?
 
Any upgrade on Townsend/Lennon would be nice but its not the most important upgrade we need. Get in a LB and CB to shore up our defence before anything else.
 
Repeat to fade.....



Hazard, Schurrle, Willian, Salah

Nasri, Navas, Silva

Sanchez, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Cazorla, Walcott, Podolski

Sterling, Markovic, Lallana

Di Maria, Januzaj, Young, Valencia

Mirallas, Pienaar, Atsu

Chadli, Townsend, Lennon, Lamela



Spot the ****ing difference.

That run Sterling made through our defence today....no-one in our squad looks even remotely capable of doing something like that. Far too many times we saw our players get into good positions but get tackled, or can't deliver a decent cross/shot. Lamela and Eriksen have decent technique, but we seriously lack players in the final third with quick feet, who can skin opposition defenders, work a bit of space and create goalscoring opportunities for themselves.

We should not have aspirations to finish any higher than 6th with Nacer ****ing Chadli in our starting XI. I don't care how good Poch or his "systems" are.
 
Lamela looks like he could have the dribbling skills to get past a couple of players and get a shot in. Eriksen is capable of skinning a couple as well.
 
Lamella really impressed me with his effort but he looks quite slow. I've seen him for Roma bomb on but teams doing give you that room in our league.

We really need some pace wide that can cut in and run but I don't see Townsend or Lennon as the players for that as they play with their heads down too much
 
Following last year's failure to sign a winger, our Champions League bid fell quite a long way short, and whilst the quality of the football was far superior at times than it had been in the previous two seasons, there were still too many games where we struggled to break teams down and create meaningful opportunities.

I have never rated Chadli and wanted him out of the team forever not too long ago, but it's undeniable that he showed his finishing ability by chipping in with a lot of goals - enough to convince me that he is worth keeping as a squad player. However his contribution over 90 minutes, bar the Chelsea game on New Year's Day, generally leaves a lot to be desired. Lamela showed flashes of brilliance but still gives the ball away more than any player I've seen in over 20 years of watching Spurs with the possible exception of Hossam Ghaly. Then you've got Townsend, who was pretty pathetic last season when not wearing an England shirt or taking a penalty.

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/community/threads/the-winger-thread.6478/

The situation has not changed. Our rivals all have significantly better wide players than we do. Not one of our wide players could get into the starting XI of anybody else in the top 7. I really think we could have done great things this season if we'd pushed the boat out and got Depay or Brahimi when we had the chance - even Mane was regularly linked with us but we let him to go Southampton and take the league by storm.

Fast, skillful, tricky wingers are not only fun to watch, they're good for all situations - whether finding a way through against a team who have 10 men behind the ball, or having someone who can destroy teams on the counter to scare them into not committing too many men forward. I firmly believe that Chelsea's threat from their wide players on the counter that forced the opposition to play a little deeper was just good a reason for their good defensive record as Terry, Courtois, Matic etc. I miss the days of Ginola dancing through the Barnsley defence, Bale tearing Maicon a new one, even Dalmat and Malbranque could get bums off seats by pulling off a bit of magic.

There are some fast players in our squad - Walker, Townsend, Yedlin etc. You also have a bit of skill and guile coming from Eriksen or Bentaleb. But I don't see anyone in our squad who has the cominbation of being skillful and fast. And those players are the game changers. That is what we need more than anything else this summer.

The good news is - it SEEMS AS THOUGH our management team agree with me this time. Konoplyanka, Yarmolenko, Ayew, Mirallas, Salvio, Bolasie etc all being linked. But who do you want? Who is realistically gettable? How much would they cost? Which, if any, of our current wingers (Lennon included) would you like to see here next season and what role should they play?


Personally - I'd listen to offers for all of our current crop - including Chadli who's stock will never be higher and we'll never get a better price for him - remember when we turned down £12m from Leeds for Steffen Iversen when they were spunking money on anybody, only to let him go on a free a couple of years later? I like Lennon and would prefer to keep him but if his heart is set on going to Everton then we should get Mirallas in exchange. The fact that Konoplyanka and Ayew are available on frees cannot be ignored, especially as we also need to save budget for CM and CF signings too..

Youtube compilations most welcome :)
 
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