The transfer thread

[Finney Is Back]

To me it’s a no brainer
There is also Angel Gomes that too
Both are out to contact and the kind that you can sign and sell on at a later date for a paper profit if need be. And I know people would say wages.. but there would be minimal fee

It is often quite difficult to sell players who have come in on free transfers due to the high wages they earn. There would probably only be a dozen clubs in Europe who could afford the wages and if the player isn't successful none of them will be interested.

The only hope is offloading them to Saudi but many players don't want a move to Saudi.

 

[braineclipse]

Gray, Bergval and Odobert are still kids. suspect the plan was to ease all three of them into the team.

There is no way that Odobert was signed as a first choice LWF. He would've been behind Son and maybe also Richarlison. Perhaps even Werner (otherwise what was the point of signing him?). Odobert is a very talented player. (remember that I called him out as a signing I'd like to see us make - though did say I thought we should sign him and then leave him at Burnley for another year). However he still has a lot of developing to do to reach his potential.

These are not players that would play anything other than a tiny bit part for top 4 teams.

Austin and Whiteman - senior in age, kids in terms of their experience.... Pretty clear that neither were intended to be used - look at how we quickly got Kinsky (actually another kid in goalkeeping terms) immediately when Forster got ill.

The plan was quite clearly to ease in Gray and Bergvall. We know that because we know what happened. They were eased in and are now playing more and well.

Odobert was pretty much thrown straight in, not eased in. We don't know how he would have done. I agree, probably not a first choice. But one that probably would have seen plenty of minutes if not for his injuries.

All three were clearly for the senior/first team squad this season. That's how Ange talked about them, that's how Ange has used them.

 

[Muttley]

Gray, Bergval and Odobert are still kids. suspect the plan was to ease all three of them into the team.

There is no way that Odobert was signed as a first choice LWF. He would've been behind Son and maybe also Richarlison. Perhaps even Werner (otherwise what was the point of signing him?). Odobert is a very talented player. (remember that I called him out as a signing I'd like to see us make - though did say I thought we should sign him and then leave him at Burnley for another year). However he still has a lot of developing to do to reach his potential.

These are not players that would play anything other than a tiny bit part for top 4 teams.

Austin and Whiteman - senior in age, kids in terms of their experience.... Pretty clear that neither were intended to be used - look at how we quickly got Kinsky (actually another kid in goalkeeping terms) immediately when Forster got ill.

Out of interest, do we have a first choice / second choice mentality now?

I just thought we would have a pool of Sonny, Solanke, Richi, Odo, Werner and Johnson and use them across the 90 mins, and obviously rotate for the workload. Moore would be kept with the 1st team and then see how he progresses.

I do think the club had an open mind which ones would end up playing the most minutes across the entire season. The favourite would have always been Solanke would have been my guess.

The early season Odo / Richi injuries killed our plan.

 

[Finney Is Back]

After tonight and tomorrow's games, it will be clear which CL clubs cannot possibly progress.
At that point they may want to offload players.
E.g. clubs such as Young Boys, Red Bull Salzberg, Red Bull Leipzig, Sturm Graz, Red Star Belgrade, Girona, Sparta Prague, Shakhtar Donetsk, Bologna.
This will become clearer tomorrow night. And definite around 30Jan. The transfer window ends 3Feb.

Likewise for EL and ECL clubs. Currently E.g. Dynamo Kyiv, Nice, Rigas, Qarabag, Malmo, Twente, Slavia Prague etc.

So this may kickstart some actual DECISIONS once those clubs know for sure where their season is heading.

You might say those TEAMS are not very good, but scattered within their squads are some star players we just haven't heard of yet. That is what Lange is paid to find.

As I mentioned the other day: El Hadji Malick Diouf could prove a good signing from Slavia Prague. We were previously interested in Dorgu and Diouf has a very similar skillset. Now that the bigger boys are interested in Dorgu I think Diouf would be a player more within our finances.

He is another young signing and would likely need 6 months to adapt so we'd have to be patient with him but I think he has the physicality to play in the PL.

 

[Dicko]

.... and relax

https://twitter.com/x/status/1882019471990423766

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It is often quite difficult to sell players who have come in on free transfers due to the high wages they earn. There would probably only be a dozen clubs in Europe who could afford the wages and if the player isn't successful none of them will be interested.

The only hope is offloading them to Saudi but many players don't want a move to Saudi.

You then have to structure your deal right in the first place
Pay a bigger signing on rather than wages for example

 

[braineclipse]

No I know, but what I mean is it always seems like us and others are after the lesser say teams players like wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford. Players that yes can already be known but why didn't we take a punt before? Is £18m on Rafinha a punt or very good business regardless? Seems like we are so mixed with our scouting that we are happy to pay £65m on Solanke but won't say, spend £38m on Cunha, and it looks like we are now interested in him but it will cost us £50m or maybe £70m, which is very unlikely to happen.

There's a lot of money and also some rather well run clubs in the PL. Those "we should have signed him when he cost X" situations will always be there.

The question for me is if we're making those good deals ourselves. We seem to be doing just that. Other clubs will too.

 

[Finney Is Back]

You then have to structure your deal right in the first place
Pay a bigger signing on rather than wages for example

That doesn't matter a jot mate. "Signing on fees" are spread across the contract and paid as a 'loyalty bonus' (player forgoes that element if they put in a written transfer request and are then sold but are due their remaining 'loyalty bonus' installments if they are sold without putting in a written transfer request (though typically there is just a negotiation on both sides instead of a written request going in).

When people talk about £100k a week wage (or whatever amount) that is actually the wage and the loyalty bonus element factored in.

IF you give a player a 5 year deal on £80k a week and a signing on fee of £20m, you are basically just giving them £160k a week (and that is what would be leaked by the agent as the player 'wage').

 

[billyiddo]

Gray, Bergval and Odobert are still kids. suspect the plan was to ease all three of them into the team.

There is no way that Odobert was signed as a first choice LWF. He would've been behind Son and maybe also Richarlison. Perhaps even Werner (otherwise what was the point of signing him?). Odobert is a very talented player. (remember that I called him out as a signing I'd like to see us make - though did say I thought we should sign him and then leave him at Burnley for another year). However he still has a lot of developing to do to reach his potential.

These are not players that would play anything other than a tiny bit part for top 4 teams.

Austin and Whiteman - senior in age, kids in terms of their experience.... Pretty clear that neither were intended to be used - look at how we quickly got Kinsky (actually another kid in goalkeeping terms) immediately when Forster got ill.

This point of yours is so transparent i don't know who you think you are fooling what we know is that Ange said all 3 of Bergvall Gray & Odobert were signed to have an impact this season and that Ange started Odobert in 3 of the 4 games he was available for before his injury (2 PL ahead of Werner & Richarlson and 1 Cup), if that's not an indication that he was intended to be heavily used from the off idk what is. Gray had a full season under his belt as a starter in the Champ, Odobert had a season as a starter for a PL team and prior to that as a starter abroad. Bergvall is the least experienced but has a season under his belt playing mens football and comes in to the squad as a 4th/5th choice CM.

As back ups they are more than adequate, Ange has not been stitched up by the club having them as his options. He signed off on each of them and spoke of their readiness for the season ahead.

 

[Finney Is Back]

There's a lot of money and also some rather well run clubs in the PL. Those "we should have signed him when he cost X" situations will always be there.

The question for me is if we're making those good deals ourselves. We seem to be doing just that. Other clubs will too.

I've always been somewhat concerned that we don't seem to be headhunting the people at the really well run transfer clubs and taking them to Spurs. Examples here would be when Chelsea poached Frank Arnesen from us. More recently they did the same poaching Paul Winstanley from Brighton.

Top companies tend to headhunt talent from other organisations who have proven themselves in a similar market. I've not seen that happening at Spurs

 

[braineclipse]

I've always been somewhat concerned that we don't seem to be headhunting the people at the really well run transfer clubs and taking them to Spurs. Examples here would be when Chelsea poached Frank Arnesen from us. More recently they did the same poaching Paul Winstanley from Brighton.

Top companies tend to headhunt talent from other organisations who have proven themselves in a similar market. I've not seen that happening at Spurs

I don't care much about where we recruit those people from as long as they're good at their job. Paratici and now Lange/Munn seem to be doing good jobs.

Of course having the right and talented people in place is important. But imo as important is having a good structure and holistic thinking in place. Scouting, data, DoF types, manager, chairman.

Seems to me that's what we're now getting towards, and seeing benefits from.

 

[Finney Is Back]

This point of yours is so transparent i don't know who you think you are fooling what we know is that Ange said all 3 of Bergvall Gray & Odobert were signed to have an impact this season and that Ange started Odobert in 3 of the 4 games he was available for before his injury (2 PL ahead of Werner & Richarlson and 1 Cup), if that's not an indication that he was intended to be heavily used from the off idk what is. Gray had a full season under his belt as a starter in the Champ, Odobert had a season as a starter for a PL team and prior to that as a starter abroad. Bergvall is the least experienced but has a season under his belt playing mens football and comes in to the squad as a 4th/5th choice CM.

As back ups they are more than adequate, Ange has not been stitched up by the club having them as his options. He signed off on each of them and spoke of their readiness for the season ahead.

Yes, I suspect the plan was for them to get a few games in the Europa and the cups against easier opposition (especially for the two 18 year olds).

I think Odobert was playing prior to Solanke signing when Son was still playing as the centre forward.

Of the three of them I do think Odobert was considered the most ready (sensible considering he had already played PL football at Burnley) As I said (before we'd even been linked with him) he was a signing that I wanted us to make and leave at Burnley as he still has a lot of developing to do.

It is great for our future that we are playing these young players but we really shouldn't have much in the way of expectations around finishing top 6 or 7 with them being first choice players.

 

[billyiddo]

Yes, I suspect the plan was for them to get a few games in the Europa and the cups against easier opposition (especially for the two 18 year olds).

I think Odobert was playing prior to Solanke signing when Son was still playing as the centre forward.

Of the three of them I do think Odobert was considered the most ready (sensible considering he had already played PL football at Burnley) As I said (before we'd even been linked with him) he was a signing that I wanted us to make and leave at Burnley as he still has a lot of developing to do.

It is great for our future that we are playing these young players but we really shouldn't have much in the way of expectations around finishing top 6 or 7 with them being first choice players.

They aren't first choice players?

The point re Odobert was that he was chosen ahead of Werner & Richarlson to deputise for Son - your post i was replying to said he was likely planned to be behind both which clearly was not the case.

 

[Muttley]

Lange will get the questions until he succeeds (or fails).

He was tasked with making Villa a safe top half side which he achieved. However, when they became that he was asked to report to new guy Monchi and almost take a reduced role in recruitment and youth development. You get the feeling he is a worker bee rather than a leader but does a steady job. He's probably a valuable asset.

Spurs still can't really think about being a team that just buys ready made players. When you look at the profile City are buying, you can see that the big teams are in that market for the ones on the up. I hope we stick to it.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don't care much about where we recruit those people from as long as they're good at their job. Paratici and now Lange/Munn seem to be doing good jobs.

Of course having the right and talented people in place is important. But imo as important is having a good structure and holistic thinking in place. Scouting, data, DoF types, manager, chairman.

Seems to me that's what we're now getting towards, and seeing benefits from.

Paratici was great and the club desperately needed his contacts book when he came in as the recruitment structure had gone to absolute brick from top to bottom. The jury is still out on the latter two I think, the next 2 or 3 years will show us whether they are decent or not. So far I am open minded.

Agree 100% with your second paragraph. It is scandalous how badly we were run in this respect for several years. Most chamionship clubs had better structures that us. Fingers crossed it has been properly fixed but really worrying that it was ever allowed to be so badly neglected.

 

[braineclipse]

Paratici was great and the club desperately needed his contacts book when he came in as the recruitment structure had gone to absolute brick from top to bottom. The jury is still out on the latter two I think, the next 2 or 3 years will show us whether they are decent or not. So far I am open minded.

Agree 100% with your second paragraph. It is scandalous how badly we were run in this respect for several years. Most chamionship clubs had better structures that us. Fingers crossed it has been properly fixed but really worrying that it was ever allowed to be so badly neglected.

I agree that time will tell, but so far the signs are good for me. Bergvall, Gray and Kinsky are prototypical "why didn't we sign him" if they had gone elsewhere imo. We both rate Odobert for the future at least. Solanke has imo been a great signing.

Those years where we were poor at this still hurts us to this day.

 

[Finney Is Back]

They aren't first choice players?

The point re Odobert was that he was chosen ahead of Werner & Richarlson to deputise for Son - your post i was replying to said he was likely planned to be behind both which clearly was not the case.

I do take your point.

Though regarding Odobert, once Solanke was signed and came into the team, Odobert was dropped to the bench with Son moving from CF to LW and Johnson playing RW.

Personally, I think Odobert was signed to cover both the left and right wing spot for us.

 

[braineclipse]

I do take your point.

Though regarding Odobert, once Solanke was signed and came into the team, Odobert was dropped to the bench with Son moving from CF to LW and Johnson playing RW.

Personally, I think Odobert was signed to cover both the left and right wing spot for us.

As a senior/first team player for this season?

 

[Finney Is Back]

I agree that time will tell, but so far the signs are good for me. Bergvall, Gray and Kinsky are prototypical "why didn't we sign him" if they had gone elsewhere imo. We both rate Odobert for the future at least. Solanke has imo been a great signing.

Those years where we were poor at this still hurts us to this day.

From what I could tell the Villa fans weren't disappointed to see Lange depart (though I'm not sure what the reasons are for that).

Munn taking a manager from the best club in Scotland isn't a great start for him IMO but, again, we need more time to judge whether or not he is effective.

 

[Finney Is Back]

As a senior/first team player for this season?

Yes, for better or worse.

Personally I think worse as our backup players are way too inexperienced and not yet ready for much PL football (if we want to be successful anyway). Though, as I have said many times, if we really are taking a medium to long term view, where we're happy to miss Europe for a year, while we build and develop a young squad of talent to get back in the year later when having fewer games but then really being able to have a crack at doing something significant the year after that then great. I'm all for it.