The transfer thread

[Bedfordspurs]

We also received £100M for a 30 year old Harry Kane (an unbeleivable achievement btw) so i'm not sure our outlay is really that great when compared to our rivals

We e also owe a fortune for the player we brought previously
And because we hadn’t sold any for much miney in recent years that may have been needed for that

 

[Bedfordspurs]

T

The irony here is that when we got 86 points and finished 2nd, this was the squad:

Lloris, Vorm, Lopez
Walker, Rose, Trippier, Davies
Toby, Jan, Wimmer, CCV,
Dier, Wanyama, Dembele, Winks, Eriksen, Dele, Lamela, Sissoko, Onomah, Nkoudou
Kane, Son, Janssen

Does it sound familiar that we didn't have credible backup keepers? Our 2 fullbacks weren't fit to lace the main men, Walker and Rose. We only actually had 2 credible centre halves. If we had injuries to Kane and Son, we had major problems with backups up front. There were major cracks in that squad.

That season, we got to the FA cup semi-final and was in a combo of CL and EL until February, and played over 50 games.

When I think of our recent 5 year history, it is perfectly natural that we don't have 2 strong players for every position. What I do believe is that it closer than ever to being that way. By August next year, I think we'll have that.

What we need to figure out though is how we get a team as good as this, but this time with much stronger backups:
Lloris; Walker, Toby, Jan, Rose; Dembele, Wanyama; Son, Eriksen, Dele; Kane

That squad was built over years though

 

[glorygloryeze]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1835566247376994801

2 foremost people when it comes to football club finance reporting

Swissramble and Kieron Maguire

The wage table is on the above link

Unlike other sites and people these guys use what’s reported in company accounts

Thanks for posting this. I do look at the trend for us wrt wages and see it is trending upwards but still way below most of who we would call our rivals. I do suspect that blip in 2023 when compared to Arsenal we had a higher wage bill includes wages for Kane and Lloris and hasn't yet factored the likes of Havertz and Rice. We will see a in 2024 whether we really are still paying higher in wages as that will be without Kane and Lloris but will incluide Havertz, Rice et al and i'd bet they are paying them much more than we are paying the likes of MVDV, Udogie etc.

 

[Muttley]

T

That squad was built over years though

They all are but we cannot let the clock start from 18 months ago. It just doesn't work that way. (not saying you were btw, but some fans do).

Poch's 3rd season was the 16/17 season. Just as we've had new signings in this current squad from about the 21/22 season, so did Poch. The signings of Hugo, Eriksen, Walker, Rose, Dembele and Eriksen were made before his tenure. He then got 70 points in season 2, and leaped to 86 points in season 3. He added players in his first 2 seasons.

For Ange to emulate Poch, we'd be attaining CL this season. We'd then go and get 86 points next season. Problem is, Ange won't get a freaky season that Poch got (and Leicester) where the league is won on 81 points, and 70 points gets you 3rd.

As I said above, this current squad really started to build in about the 21/22 season. When you trace the players, that's when you see it forming. We're 3 years into that now.

 

[glorygloryeze]

You know the year after the Cl we spent mega money
That is a club investing
Obviously it didn’t work
What Arsenal and Pool have done is invest over time
If wasn’t done quickly or in a panic
Look at how poll got Van Dijk
That’s what we’re doing
Pool baked on the Spanish Dm this summer and he tinted them down. They stuck with what they had abd wee giving their manager time to work out what he may want instead
That’s a plan

We did indeed spend. But how many of those we bought were like WOWZERS we are really going for a title/trophy challenge here?
Big wages on the likes of Perisic was certainly backing Conte. But who was it that was bought that you'd say was immediately going to replace someone in the first team? Maybe Perisic, but the rest whlst decent was mostly squad padding.
I agree this investment takes times, but it's not like ENIC arrived yesterday: we've seen their operation over decades now...and actually they've had ample opportunity to show that they would operate like Arsenal or Liverpool.

It's certainly good to have a plan. But we've always given the impression that our plan is just to stay competitive (in terms of European places) rather than actually wanting to 'go for it' (i.e. buying for a title challenge etc)
I don't see any evidence that this will change

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They all are but we cannot let the clock start from 18 months ago. It just doesn't work that way. (not saying you were btw, but some fans do).

Poch's 3rd season was the 16/17 season. Just as we've had new signings in this current squad from about the 21/22 season, so did Poch. The signings of Hugo, Eriksen, Walker, Rose, Dembele and Eriksen were made before his tenure. He then got 70 points in season 2, and leaped to 86 points in season 3. He added players in his first 2 seasons.

For Ange to emulate Poch, we'd be attaining CL this season. We'd then go and get 86 points next season. Problem is, Ange won't get a freaky season that Poch got (and Leicester) where the league is won on 81 points, and 70 points gets you 3rd.

As I said above, this current squad really started to build in about the 21/22 season. When you trace the players, that's when you see it forming. We're 3 years into that now.

It’s why you add year on year from a place of stability ideally
And with a plan

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We did indeed spend. But how many of those we bought were like WOWZERS we are really going for a title/trophy challenge here?
Big wages on the likes of Perisic was certainly backing Conte. But who was it that was bought that you'd say was immediately going to replace someone in the first team? Maybe Perisic, but the rest whlst decent was mostly squad padding.
I agree this investment takes times, but it's not like ENIC arrived yesterday: we've seen their operation over decades now...and actually they've had ample opportunity to show that they would operate like Arsenal or Liverpool.

It's certainly good to have a plan. But we've always given the impression that our plan is just to stay competitive (in terms of European places) rather than actually wanting to 'go for it' (i.e. buying for a title challenge etc)
I don't see any evidence that this will change

Vdv
Udogie
Vicario
All brought recently to fill voids
Solanke addressed the biggest issue in the summer (we had no strikers)
No team creates a title challenge quickly
Even city took years before pep
That summer window under Poch we brought the best CM in France, the best 10 from Spain and the best young left back around
Turned out they were crap

 

[Raziel]

They all are but we cannot let the clock start from 18 months ago. It just doesn't work that way. (not saying you were btw, but some fans do).

Poch's 3rd season was the 16/17 season. Just as we've had new signings in this current squad from about the 21/22 season, so did Poch. The signings of Hugo, Eriksen, Walker, Rose, Dembele and Eriksen were made before his tenure. He then got 70 points in season 2, and leaped to 86 points in season 3. He added players in his first 2 seasons.

For Ange to emulate Poch, we'd be attaining CL this season. We'd then go and get 86 points next season. Problem is, Ange won't get a freaky season that Poch got (and Leicester) where the league is won on 81 points, and 70 points gets you 3rd.

As I said above, this current squad really started to build in about the 21/22 season. When you trace the players, that's when you see it forming. We're 3 years into that now.

This season -> Solanke, Wilson, Gray, Bervall, Moore
Last season (23/24) -> Vic, Udogie, VDV, Dragusin, Udogie, Maddison, Johnson, Werner
22/23 season -> Richarlison, Biss, Spence, Porro
21/22 season -> Romero, Bentancur, Deki

The issue is it's basically a full squad rebuild (only Son & Davies was in the first Jose squad?), there 18-20 players I've listed there that are part of the matchday squad.

We have had to rebuild the squad, then try to build from that new squad point (e.g. Klopp had a decent team, really needed to sort the defense to play his style)

We did indeed spend. But how many of those we bought were like WOWZERS we are really going for a title/trophy challenge here?
Big wages on the likes of Perisic was certainly backing Conte. But who was it that was bought that you'd say was immediately going to replace someone in the first team? Maybe Perisic, but the rest whlst decent was mostly squad padding.
I agree this investment takes times, but it's not like ENIC arrived yesterday: we've seen their operation over decades now...and actually they've had ample opportunity to show that they would operate like Arsenal or Liverpool.

It's certainly good to have a plan. But we've always given the impression that our plan is just to stay competitive (in terms of European places) rather than actually wanting to 'go for it' (i.e. buying for a title challenge etc)
I don't see any evidence that this will change

Our plan is to spend as much money as we have/can generate, it always has been, always will be (and outside of the stadium build years it has been competitive). Is that enough? time will tell

This is why fundamentally there will be disagreement, your last statement is we don't spend enough? yet when the club makes long term investments to increase our revenue stream (to spend more money), they are accused of not focusing on football?

The club has spent a lot of money since moving out the stadium, has that been good spend? (clearly the Ndombele, GLC, Sessegnon, Clarke window was a brickshow, but see the list above, we have made some very good signings post that and a lot of them either close to, or actually record signings), separate conversation. FWIW it's worth, 8 out of 10 most expensive transfers of all time for the club are in the current matchday squad.

This season - €148.85m, previous seasons - €272.10m, €179.90m, €95.90m, €110.50m, €150.50m, what more would qualify as going for it?

 

[Muttley]

We did indeed spend. But how many of those we bought were like WOWZERS we are really going for a title/trophy challenge here?
Big wages on the likes of Perisic was certainly backing Conte. But who was it that was bought that you'd say was immediately going to replace someone in the first team? Maybe Perisic, but the rest whlst decent was mostly squad padding.
I agree this investment takes times, but it's not like ENIC arrived yesterday: we've seen their operation over decades now...and actually they've had ample opportunity to show that they would operate like Arsenal or Liverpool.

It's certainly good to have a plan. But we've always given the impression that our plan is just to stay competitive (in terms of European places) rather than actually wanting to 'go for it' (i.e. buying for a title challenge etc)
I don't see any evidence that this will change

Have you thought about the the big changes we see all the time, prior to trophies?

Poch got 64 points in his first season, and only climbed to 70 points in the season season. He inherited the fantastic 7 - Hugo, Walker, Rose, Verts, Dembele, Eriksen and Kane. He bought Davies, Dele and Dier to start with in that 64 point season and there were some great performers like Mason and Bentaleb that adopted his system. He then bought Toby and Son and finally in season 3 added Wanyama. It was season 3 where it happened for him.

So a 4 point improvement with all those early players, and a 16 point jump when he added one key player.

Most recently, Arteta went 61, 69, 84, 89. A few years back Pool went 64, 60, 76, 75, 97. The following season they won it with 99 points. When Pep first joined he went 78 and then 100 points to win the league in season 2. The difference is that both Mancini and Pellegrini had been working at that progression prior to him joining,

I guess the point I'm making is that when a club is preparing to compete at the highest level, you normally see a big hike in points between 2 seasons. It's not normally in the season we're in, because that is normally where you see the overhauls on the squad happen. It follows the forming, storming, norming, performing pattern that is often spoken about in business.

We're in that norming phase right now. I don't know whether we have it in us to be league winners, but apart from City, it all looks the normal pattern to me.

 

[Bishop]

Who said he was ?
Bit when people complain we don’t spend
And we do
But it’s it a big name so it doesn’t count.
That’s odd
You may get one or two freakish players going for big fee but it’s likely to be one every couple of years if at all

What I'm saying to you is people aren't screaming about the 65m fee as putting us in the bracket of big boys because other clubs have spent a lot more on individual players. At this point 65m is not considered a massive fee which was what you were discussing earlier.

People complaining are likely doing so in comparison to the 100m+ fees. You can't disregard those fees but then at the same time say you don't understand why ppl are saying we don't spend big.

 

[Bishop]

The irony here is that when we got 86 points and finished 2nd, this was the squad:

Lloris, Vorm, Lopez
Walker, Rose, Trippier, Davies
Toby, Jan, Wimmer, CCV,
Dier, Wanyama, Dembele, Winks, Eriksen, Dele, Lamela, Sissoko, Onomah, Nkoudou
Kane, Son, Janssen

Does it sound familiar that we didn't have credible backup keepers? Our 2 fullbacks weren't fit to lace the main men, Walker and Rose. We only actually had 2 credible centre halves. If we had injuries to Kane and Son, we had major problems with backups up front. There were major cracks in that squad.

That season, we got to the FA cup semi-final and was in a combo of CL and EL until February, and played over 50 games.

When I think of our recent 5 year history, it is perfectly natural that we don't have 2 strong players for every position. What I do believe is that it closer than ever to being that way. By August next year, I think we'll have that.

What we need to figure out though is how we get a team as good as this, but this time with much stronger backups:
Lloris; Walker, Toby, Jan, Rose; Dembele, Wanyama; Son, Eriksen, Dele; Kane

The gaps in that squad are the reason it didn't win anything.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

What I'm saying to you is people aren't screaming about the 65m fee as putting us in the bracket of big boys because other clubs have spent a lot more on individual players. At this point 65m is not considered a massive fee which was what you were discussing earlier.

People complaining are likely doing so in comparison to the 100m+ fees. You can't disregard those fees but then at the same time say you don't understand why ppl are saying we don't spend big.

I’m just stunned that a spurs fan thinks £65m isn’t big. Wasnt it the mist spent on any player this summer
Who has paid these £100m fees in the premier league
Chelsea have done it, repeatedly. The club with no plan or a clue
United too a few times.,, again, no clue
Arsenal once. Their next highest after rice is Pepe.
City are up there but everyone of their players was brought to play, with a plan and has returned that in medals
Pool, who actually have a real idea aren’t us there much with VVD coming in 13th most expensive

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Thanks for posting this. I do look at the trend for us wrt wages and see it is trending upwards but still way below most of who we would call our rivals. I do suspect that blip in 2023 when compared to Arsenal we had a higher wage bill includes wages for Kane and Lloris and hasn't yet factored the likes of Havertz and Rice. We will see a in 2024 whether we really are still paying higher in wages as that will be without Kane and Lloris but will incluide Havertz, Rice et al and i'd bet they are paying them much more than we are paying the likes of MVDV, Udogie etc.

Read the wages from 2015 and compare to Arsenal?. Gap closed over that period. We are on par. They have become a contender at that level..so not an impossible mission.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Have you thought about the the big changes we see all the time, prior to trophies?

Poch got 64 points in his first season, and only climbed to 70 points in the season season. He inherited the fantastic 7 - Hugo, Walker, Rose, Verts, Dembele, Eriksen and Kane. He bought Davies, Dele and Dier to start with in that 64 point season and there were some great performers like Mason and Bentaleb that adopted his system. He then bought Toby and Son and finally in season 3 added Wanyama. It was season 3 where it happened for him.

So a 4 point improvement with all those early players, and a 16 point jump when he added one key player.

Most recently, Arteta went 61, 69, 84, 89. A few years back Pool went 64, 60, 76, 75, 97. The following season they won it with 99 points. When Pep first joined he went 78 and then 100 points to win the league in season 2. The difference is that both Mancini and Pellegrini had been working at that progression prior to him joining,

I guess the point I'm making is that when a club is preparing to compete at the highest level, you normally see a big hike in points between 2 seasons. It's not normally in the season we're in, because that is normally where you see the overhauls on the squad happen. It follows the forming, storming, norming, performing pattern that is often spoken about in business.

We're in that norming phase right now. I don't know whether we have it in us to be league winners, but apart from City, it all looks the normal pattern to me.

Great post
It takes time
You can throw money at like Chelsea and hope something clicks or you can do it the right way

 

[Muttley]

The gaps in that squad are the reason it didn't win anything.

Exactly, but when it peaked in 2017 we were subject to a very minimal net spending. Players were getting older and we needed to refresh the squad. We couldn't because of where we were on our journey.

My point is that if we can get this squad back up to the 86 points mark in the PL, then we can probably stay there this time. It won't be a one off season, based on minimal injuries and therefore 14-15 players carrying the workload.

This squad has more depth but less first team talent.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Thanks for posting this. I do look at the trend for us wrt wages and see it is trending upwards but still way below most of who we would call our rivals. I do suspect that blip in 2023 when compared to Arsenal we had a higher wage bill includes wages for Kane and Lloris and hasn't yet factored the likes of Havertz and Rice. We will see a in 2024 whether we really are still paying higher in wages as that will be without Kane and Lloris but will incluide Havertz, Rice et al and i'd bet they are paying them much more than we are paying the likes of MVDV, Udogie etc.

Maddsion came in on big wages
Timo is on big money too
We pay very well
It’s why no one wants to leave
I fully expect rice is getting paid more than our lowest paid players as you suggest
But I’d wager his wages are on par with what we pay son
What is key of course is they ain’t win anything with rice there

 

[Bishop]

I’m just stunned that a spurs fan thinks £65m isn’t big. Wasnt it the mist spent on any player this summer
Who has paid these £100m fees in the premier league
Chelsea have done it, repeatedly. The club with no plan or a clue
United too a few times.,, again, no clue
Arsenal once. Their next highest after rice is Pepe.
City are up there but everyone of their players was brought to play, with a plan and has returned that in medals
Pool, who actually have a real idea aren’t us there much with VVD coming in 13th most expensive

As I said I would rather pay less and gain big, but some fans would like us to go in for the bigger names and the bigger transfer fees. 100m+ has became that benchmark.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

As I said I would rather pay less and gain big, but some fans would like us to go in for the bigger names and the bigger transfer fees. 100m+ has became that benchmark.

It’s has
Just that no one did that last summer
It won’t be the benchmark anymore

 

[braineclipse]

Have you thought about the the big changes we see all the time, prior to trophies?

Poch got 64 points in his first season, and only climbed to 70 points in the season season. He inherited the fantastic 7 - Hugo, Walker, Rose, Verts, Dembele, Eriksen and Kane. He bought Davies, Dele and Dier to start with in that 64 point season and there were some great performers like Mason and Bentaleb that adopted his system. He then bought Toby and Son and finally in season 3 added Wanyama. It was season 3 where it happened for him.

So a 4 point improvement with all those early players, and a 16 point jump when he added one key player.

Most recently, Arteta went 61, 69, 84, 89. A few years back Pool went 64, 60, 76, 75, 97. The following season they won it with 99 points. When Pep first joined he went 78 and then 100 points to win the league in season 2. The difference is that both Mancini and Pellegrini had been working at that progression prior to him joining,

I guess the point I'm making is that when a club is preparing to compete at the highest level, you normally see a big hike in points between 2 seasons. It's not normally in the season we're in, because that is normally where you see the overhauls on the squad happen. It follows the forming, storming, norming, performing pattern that is often spoken about in business.

We're in that norming phase right now. I don't know whether we have it in us to be league winners, but apart from City, it all looks the normal pattern to me.

Great post. For that norming phase to progress into something better there's usually a need for more transfers as you point out. But also learning and development as Ange speeks quite a lot about.

This is also the season we got back into Europe. And we've gone further in the league cup than last season. Can't really get a much shorter FA cup run than we had last season.

There's a need for adaptation and learning with that increase in games. We needed a better squad last season already with way fewer games. We've gotten part way there at the very least, but some of that improvement gets "eaten up" by the extra games.

A lot of reasons to think we could be even better next season than this. But also imo reasons to think we can improve across this season. With Bergvall, Gray, Odobert and Moore we've only started to see a little bit of what they can add to the team this season. If one or two of them makes the next step up at some point this season that could add quite a bit to us.

 

[Muttley]

Maddsion came in on big wages
Timo is on big money too
We pay very well
It’s why no one wants to leave
I fully expect rice is getting paid more than our lowest paid players as you suggest
But I’d wager his wages are on par with what we pay son
What is key of course is they ain’t win anything with rice there

I would think there is a gap between the Son and Rice salaries before bonuses. Havertz earns even more as their highest earner.

My instinct that the on target earning (base + salary) of the top Arsenal earners is still higher. Logically, our revenues are similar but Spurs have the stadium costs. That probably creates a gap on the salary side.

I could be wrong though.