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The Press-Resistant CM Thread

Bedfordspurs said:
He came up on the Tifo video as the perfect signing
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Yeah, he's quietly become the best CM in Ligue 1, so no surprise - I've been impressed by him for a couple of years now, but he's really added an authoritative edge to his game this year, even as Lyon are struggling. He's about at the edge of our ability to get him atm - come the summer, we'll be outbid for him by better, more ambitious sides.

If we ever want to go for him, now is the time, not the summer.

Bonus is, we get him, we would also be well positioned to get Lucas Paqueta down the line - who is another Brazilian gem at Lyon who is becoming one of among Europe's most dangerous creators both by the stats (xG and chance creation) and the eye test.

I wish we thought in joined-up ways like this, tbh.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Yeah, he's quietly become the best CM in Ligue 1, so no surprise - I've been impressed by him for a couple of years now, but he's really added an authoritative edge to his game this year, even as Lyon are struggling. He's about at the edge of our ability to get him atm - come the summer, we'll be outbid for him by better, more ambitious sides.

If we ever want to go for him, now is the time, not the summer.

Bonus is, we get him, we would also be well positioned to get Lucas Paqueta down the line - who is another Brazilian gem at Lyon who is becoming one of among Europe's most dangerous creators both by the stats (xG and chance creation) and the eye test.

I wish we thought in joined-up ways like this, tbh.
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I think I posted about a goal they scored together the other week
It was class
 
Gutter Boy said:
I'm not sure upgrading Hojberg is even one of our top 5 problems
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It actually sort of is - either upgrading him, or letting him exclusively break up play all over the field, which means having two midfield partners to alternately progress the ball and sit deep to act as an outlet for the CBs.

As it stands, having him in a two means accepting that ball progression from midfield will be very limited and press resistance very low - which is a huge handicap that basically draws the rest of the team deeper to compensate for his lack of ability on the ball.

His ideal role, as I've mentioned before, is one that parallels Sami Khedira at Madrid under Mourinho - a box-to-box hound who used his physicality to win the ball all over the field and then shuffled it to either Xabi Alonso or Ozil to play it forward.

But outside that very specific role, his limitations mean a serious handicap to our game on the ball. I'd actually say it's one of our more pressing issues. In terms of his mentality and his ability to break up play, we have to have him on the field. But we need urgently to surround him with ball players so the team isn't clunky and laboured as a result.
 
DubaiSpur said:
It actually sort of is - either upgrading him, or letting him exclusively break up play all over the field, which means having two midfield partners to alternately progress the ball and sit deep to act as an outlet for the CBs.

As it stands, having him in a two means accepting that ball progression from midfield will be very limited and press resistance very low - which is a huge handicap that basically draws the rest of the team deeper to compensate for his lack of ability on the ball.

His ideal role, as I've mentioned before, is one that parallels Sami Khedira at Madrid under Mourinho - a box-to-box hound who used his physicality to win the ball all over the field and then shuffled it to either Xabi Alonso or Ozil to play it forward.

But outside that very specific role, his limitations mean a serious handicap to our game on the ball. I'd actually say it's one of our more pressing issues. In terms of his mentality and his ability to break up play, we have to have him on the field. But we need urgently to surround him with ball players so the team isn't clunky and laboured as a result.
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Your describing how he plays for Denmark
 
DubaiSpur said:
Is it? Don't watch much international footie outside of Canada and England, but I'll take your word for it mate.

Who are his partners in the Danish midfield?
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He plays or played with Delaney (sitting) and Eriksen creating and playing the 10
They had PEH pressing high and actually creating in the process
It’s a system that can work for us
We have winks to play the deeper role and skipp and Hojbjerg to play the further forward ones. But we would need the defence to be smarter with the ball and a front 3 who scored every game
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He plays or played with Delaney (sitting) and Eriksen creating and playing the 10
They had PEH pressing high and actually creating in the process
It’s a system that can work for us
We have winks to play the deeper role and skipp and Hojbjerg to play the further forward ones. But we would need the defence to be smarter with the ball and a front 3 who scored every game
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Aye, but I'd argue Winks, Skipp and Hojbjerg is a *very* pedestrian midfield, even compared to Delaney, Hojbjerg and Eriksen.

It won't work for us, imo, until we have at least one of either a deep-lying playmaker like Ruben Neves or an advanced creator like Paqueta - preferable both, and the dream would be to get the Lyon duo for those roles. Guimaraes now, Paqueta in the summer.

Winks, Skipp and Hojbjerg are just too much of a muchness, all graft and no real ball progression at all.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Aye, but I'd argue Winks, Skipp and Hojbjerg is a *very* pedestrian midfield, even compared to Delaney, Hojbjerg and Eriksen.

It won't work for us, imo, until we have at least one of either a deep-lying playmaker like Ruben Neves or an advanced creator like Paqueta - preferable both, and the dream would be to get the Lyon duo for those roles. Guimaraes now, Paqueta in the summer.

Winks, Skipp and Hojbjerg are just too much of a muchness, all graft and no real ball progression at all.
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They progressed it fine on Wednesday
I’d argue their all good with the ball
But you need wing backs supporting (something we didn’t have today) and attackers who can score
 
Bedfordspurs said:
They progressed it fine on Wednesday
I’d argue their all good with the ball
But you need wing backs supporting (something we didn’t have today) and attackers who can score
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...and were destroyed today mate, once they were all on.

If we're looking for a gaggle of midfielders to outclass an injury-hit Leicester side missing their defensive titan in Ndidi, among others, then Skipp, Winks and Hojbjerg are sufficient. But the first time we come up against a quality side, that midfield will labour and fold, imo.

We need better starters.
 
DubaiSpur said:
...and were destroyed today mate, once they were all on.

If we're looking for a gaggle of midfielders to outclass an injury-hit Leicester side missing their defensive titan in Ndidi, among others, then Skipp, Winks and Hojbjerg are sufficient. But the first time we come up against a quality side, that midfield will labour and fold, imo.

We need better starters.
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We played 4-4-2 today with no width from the full backs
It’s a system that we haven’t played under Conte at all so was odd
I think it can work with the ugly defenders and wide players and is very similar to how conte player at Inter and Juve
 
Bedfordspurs said:
They progressed it fine on Wednesday
I’d argue their all good with the ball
But you need wing backs supporting (something we didn’t have today) and attackers who can score
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Bedford I love your optimism [emoji1787] but they aren't good enough and do not compare favourably to the quality of options Conte has had in the past. He has done a remarkable job in the short time he has had available but let's be real they aren't of the required standard and improvement that area is necessary and seemingly Conte feels the same way.

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Need a press resistant team more than we need a press resistant midfielder imo.

With Sanchez and Tanganga plus technically average wing backs we'd need a world class press resistant midfielder to really make a difference, we're not getting that.

A midfielder could help, no doubt, but so could a ball playing centre back or a right sided wing back that's better on the ball.

Will probably depend on who we can sell/loan out as much as anything.
 
Bishop said:
Bedford I love your optimism [emoji1787] but they aren't good enough and do not compare favourably to the quality of options Conte has had in the past. He has done a remarkable job in the short time he has had available but let's be real they aren't of the required standard and improvement that area is necessary and seemingly Conte feels the same way.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
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It’s not optimism it’s actually factually correct
We created so many chances on Wednesday we set a league high for XG

chelsea didn’t win because they pressed us, they won because of a moment of magic, a weakly defended corner and a poor refereeing call. And that’s with us missing key players (like they were too)

pool signed Thiago to be that press resistant midfielder and he has looked worse than why they had despite being a top drawer player

You beat a press by having players who are comfortable with a ball and also comfortable with the system. That isn’t fixed in 12 weeks by any coach. Buying better players will always help, it’s a fact. But we have brought press resistant players who other attributes are so weak they are useless to us

The balance has to be right in the team, the squad and the tactics
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It’s not optimism it’s actually factually correct
We created so many chances on Wednesday we set a league high for XG

chelsea didn’t win because they pressed us, they won because of a moment of magic, a weakly defended corner and a poor refereeing call. And that’s with us missing key players (like they were too)

pool signed Thiago to be that press resistant midfielder and he has looked worse than why they had despite being a top drawer player

You beat a press by having players who are comfortable with a ball and also comfortable with the system. That isn’t fixed in 12 weeks by any coach. Buying better players will always help, it’s a fact. But we have brought press resistant players who other attributes are so weak they are useless to us

The balance has to be right in the team, the squad and the tactics
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Yah yah yah but he didn't win with the quality of Skipp, Winks and Hojberg. We both know that in the end game if Conte were to win the PL at Spurs it won't be with those 3 as his starting CMs so let's get the ball rolling and start moving towards what he does need to succeed.

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