The midweek/weekend games thread

[Finney Is Back]

Fantastic display from Napoli.

I also wonder where the whole Cahill reacharound came in before - he's looked shocking since his move, imv

Regarding Cahill - I think we should probably reserve judgement until he is played alongside Terry. Most players would probably look poor playing alongside the car crash defending of David Luiz.

 

[GGyid]

As already stated, we dodged a bullet there. I've never seen him play well and can't understand all the hype, I don't think he's even on par with Dawson certainly well below the quality of Kaboul, Vertonghen etc

 

[ArcspacE]

Fair enough, Finney - but some of his tackling has been attrocious and could have been sent off again last night. Those are 'decisions' one makes himeself not David Luiz

 

[Wriggly]

Fantastic display from Napoli.

I also wonder where the whole Cahill reacharound came in before - he's looked shocking since his move, imv

He wasnt any better before his move either.

 

[Howard Webb]

Regarding Cahill - I think we should probably reserve judgement until he is played alongside Terry. Most players would probably look poor playing alongside the car crash defending of David Luiz.

this. add this to his recent comments about having started hardly any games since he signed, leaving him to ask why he was signed... the entire side has taken its eye off the ball well and truly. Cahill is a very good defender, just having a proper nightmare.

 

[Wriggly]

So you cant judge a player until he has played with another player ?

Let me get this right, that is what is being said here ?

 

[Howard Webb]

So you cant judge a player until he has played with another player ?

Let me get this right, that is what is being said here ?

pretty much. partnerships are important, some might say defining. Sheringham and Cole hated each other, yet surprisingly complemented each other. Dawson and King have defined roles, understand each other. Fabian Barthez didnt mesh with anyone, Van Der Sar understood his defenders in contrast.

id say you can only get so far in looking at a player in isolation.

edit - i think they should get rid of Terry, and Lampard, Drogba and Essien and start again, with Cahill as the leading centre half in a new partnership.

 

[Roy1983]

AVB still in a job this morning? There's showing faith then there's the situation over there.

 

[indianspur]

and Chelski fans got bored of winning 5, 6, 7, 8-0 whilst Ancelotti was in charge

mugs

 

[ArcspacE]

pretty much. partnerships are important, some might say defining. Sheringham and Cole hated each other, yet surprisingly complemented each other. Dawson and King have defined roles, understand each other. Fabian Barthez didnt mesh with anyone, Van Der Sar understood his defenders in contrast.

id say you can only get so far in looking at a player in isolation.

edit - i think they should get rid of Terry, and Lampard, Drogba and Essien and start again, with Cahill as the leading centre half in a new partnership.

Sorry, but I'll disagree here

A good player holds his own in any context. If anything - he should be leaps above Luiz if he was such quality. Looks at his tackles, mate - shockorama.

King looks good alongside any clown. So does Bale, etc.

Only limited players need someone to hold their hand and cover their shortcomings. As far as stirker partnerships go - if often comes down to understanding more than complimenting, imv - 2 players knowing how to move, pass, look for eachother.

 

[Howard Webb]

Sorry, but I'll disagree here

A good player holds his own in any context. If anything - he should be leaps above Luiz if he was such quality. Looks at his tackles, mate - shockorama.

King looks good alongside any clown. So does Bale, etc.

Only limited players need someone to hold their hand and cover their shortcomings. As far as stirker partnerships go - if often comes down to understanding more than complimenting, imv - 2 players knowing how to move, pass, look for eachother.

i think we are basically agreed, in that I totally agree with all you say, to the extent that results are more important than an individuals performance. A donkey can hide in a good side because he suits the dynamic and will be found out when he moves - Phil Neville for example, was pretty good ( not amazing ) at Utd for many years and became a different player at Everton, a far more influential... We all thought his career was over. Weve seen it a million times where a player supposedly head and shoulders above moves to a new club and no longer finds hes got the right stuff - not because hes no good, but because its near impossible to get teams to gel straight away.

Id argue the same for Luiz. He hasnt suddenly become crap overnight, hes obviously good. But can he handle the Premier League? It takes time to adjust to your team, to find where your strengths are against top strikers every week. Theres no time to lose, but on the same coin you cant simply parachute into any team and expect to be 100% amazing. It has never and will never work that way.

 

[indianspur]

Luiz reminds me of Ramon Vega when he was at Spurs. Some players are simply brainless and will forever remain so.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Sorry, but I'll disagree here

A good player holds his own in any context. If anything - he should be leaps above Luiz if he was such quality. Looks at his tackles, mate - shockorama.

King looks good alongside any clown. So does Bale, etc.

Only limited players need someone to hold their hand and cover their shortcomings. As far as stirker partnerships go - if often comes down to understanding more than complimenting, imv - 2 players knowing how to move, pass, look for eachother.

Hmmmm not always the case. A good and reasonably recent example at our place would be Kaboul and Dawson. Both very good plaers but playing alongside each other under Jol set both of their careers back significantly I thought. They didn't compliment each other at all and neither talked the other through the game as they both needed back then. It then took quite a long while for Dawson to get over that and come back the player that we knew he was and it took Kaboul a move away from the club to get his confidence back.

Personally I think that Cahill will outlast Luiz in the Chelsea team and eventually do well for them.

 

[ArcspacE]

r.e. Kaboul under Jol

At the time I thought he was still young and not yet acustomed to the PL so personally I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Many banished him at the time and he's been back to a humongous success

Dawson on the other hand has been the same player for the last 4 years, imv.

 

[DHSF]

Sorry, but I'll disagree here

A good player holds his own in any context. If anything - he should be leaps above Luiz if he was such quality. Looks at his tackles, mate - shockorama.

King looks good alongside any clown. So does Bale, etc.

Only limited players need someone to hold their hand and cover their shortcomings. As far as stirker partnerships go - if often comes down to understanding more than complimenting, imv - 2 players knowing how to move, pass, look for eachother.

Whilst I partially agree I dont think its entirely true. I mean for example a striker - if he doesnt have anyone to play with and doesnt get good support the guy will get crowded out thus looking like brick. Is it his fault he is playing like brick? no. On eplayer doesnt make a team and one player doesnt make a partnership.

I think football is really about partnership and how you make those partnerships into a cohesive unit. Take BAE and Bale - a great partnership. Take Parker and Modric a great partnership. Take King and Kaboom a great partnership and so on. Then you link those five partnerships on the pitch intoa cohesive unit.

fudge Harry Redknapp - I should be Manager.

 

[Park Lane James]

So you cant judge a player until he has played with another player ?

Let me get this right, that is what is being said here ?

I wouldn't go that far, but I think Cahill is not being helped by having that clown beside him - plus that joke of a central midfield didn't do anything to help him last night.

 

[ArcspacE]

But what about those tackles? Luiz doesn't command him with a secret voodoo doll stashed up his shorts

He even admitted being lucky to remain on the pitch during the Utd game

 

[spurspinter1]

I'm not really getting the Luiz hate, sure he had a shaky start with some pretty spectacular highlight fudge ups but I think most have taken what they've said on MOTD as gospel as opposed to watching him play, it's fashionable to not rate him.

Luiz will be a quality player for Chelsea, as much as we want him to fail. He was much better than Cahill last night for a start obviously it's not about being better, it's about forming a partnership.

 

[ArcspacE]

Luiz in my opinion is a class defender who's going through a rough patch similar to Torress albeit to a smaller magnitude. He'd be streets ahead of Terry and Cahill once he regains confiedence and form and hold Brazil's defence for the next 8 odd years.

I'd love it if we stood a chance to pry him away. Him or Agger

 

[indianspur]

i dont see any difference between Cahill and Luiz. Both are defenders who are comfortable on the ball, a bit of pace, but both have serious concentration issues and are prone to making gaffes