The Defensive Midfielder

[Maltese Falcon]

So you think we were solid in the middle?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think a huge issue today was the lack of support from the attacking 3 particularly wide... We defending brick as a team - actually we defended like a pub team

The central two are capable players but had poor games. Bentelab giving it away for the 3rd was not the player we have seen this season. Yet i wouldn't swap him for pretty much anyone at the moment

It's no coincidence that they looked better with the incredibly experienced Carrick in the middle

We had rose, walker and verts as our only outfield players with more than one season as a starter... That's pretty scary imo

Yet I'm not advocating signing an old experinced head unless there genuinely better than what we have, whcih I can't see at the moment

 

[Pirate55]

Though I do agree with a lot of what the OP says. Midfield is where the battles are ultimately won and lost, and whilst our midfield is probably the most functional part of our team right now, that's more because our strikers and defenders have been so ****. Haven't been convinced by Stambouli yet, Capoue doesn't appear up to the task, Dembele has gone massively off the rails in the last year or two, whereas Paulinho is our worst midfielder of the past decade.

On the wings we're even worse - Lennon is Lennon, a very effective player at times but not consistent enough to be more than a squad player at a top club. And sadly, he's our best winger. Chadli has chipped in with a few goals this season and surprised me as I previously thought he was completely useless, but I am still not convinced he's good enough to be anything more than a squad player who makes appearances in the odd cup game. Townsend has potential but so far we haven't been able to truly harness it and his apparent lack of footballing intelligence is a major concern. And then there's Lamela, who quite simply, is not a winger and should not be playing there at all.

Since the sales of Modric, Van Der Vaart and Kranjcar, we've generally had a massive lack of players in central midfield who can control a football in a tight space and play quick, accurate passes. We now have Eriksen, Mason and Bentaleb, who are the only three in our squad that can play anything resembling that kind of football, Soldado too if we play him in midfield. None of those four are natural DMs (even if Bentaleb and Mason are getting better at this part of their game) and none of them are blessed with any real pace. Out of the three natural midfielders, the oldest of those three is Mason, at 23, who only has 10 Premier League appearances to his name.

But despite beating the drum about it all summer, the squad lacks players with technical skill who can run with the ball - http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/6478-The-Winger-Thread - if we don't sign players with pace and technical skill to dribble past opponents, we're going to create far too many "half" chances, and not enough clear goalscoring opportunities to win games. In the big games, we've got the choice now of playing high up the pitch and leaving us open to getting torn to pieces by skilled attacking players who have too much space, (Liverpool, Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea), or defending deep to soak up the pressure but not having the pace and technical skill to effectively counter when the opposition commit men forward (Arsenal, as well as Liverpool + Chelsea away last season). Getting a top class winger is as big a priority as CF and CB in my opinion.

I agree with that , but we really need at least four players imo.

1 A no nonsense centre back that really likes defending
2 A leader of a CM who is a commanding figure and new captain ( we sadly don't have one at present)
3 A creative, pacy wide player
4 A top class pacy striker thay can compliment or if necessary replace Kane.

At present we are too reliant on three players, Lloris, Kane and Eriksen. Stop them and we are essentially neutered.
Must address these issues soonest.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think a huge issue today was the lack of support from the attacking 3 particularly wide... We defending crud as a team - actually we defended like a pub team

The central two are capable players but had poor games. Bentelab giving it away for the 3rd was not the player we have seen this season. Yet i wouldn't swap him for pretty much anyone at the moment

It's no coincidence that they looked better with the incredibly experienced Carrick in the middle

We had rose, walker and verts as our only outfield players with more than one season as a starter... That's pretty scary imo

Yet I'm not advocating signing an old experinced head unless there genuinely better than what we have, whcih I can't see at the moment

Excellent post.

 

[Yiddo]

I only watched up until the second goal yesterday but our problem wasn't the 2 in the middle but more about being outnumbered =. We need 3 in the middle when playing away.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

I havent watched the game back on TV but if it gave the impression that centre midfield was the issue then the camera angles lie. This is mainly the first half as second we got better / they backed off as so wasnt same game and difficult to judge

They placed Fellani between walker and dier and rooney was then pulling the centre backs across or apart. Meant that fellani was either free or that young was free, needed the whole defence to shift one player across.

When we tried to play out and split the centre backs they pressed high and also sat on the centre midfield player who would then normally receive the ball. We wouldnt or couldnt go long or threaten in behind which left us unable to hold the ball.

The front 3 behind Kane produced very little and tried until dembele came on didnt have the physical strength to hold players off with back to goal.

Yesterday was a combination of us not turning up and LVG tactically working out how to both cause us issues by making the pitch wide and also stopping us playing our attacking triangles.

Having a defensive midfielder in there yesterday would not have solved any issues.

 

[indianspur]

Just as Clinton is famously pointed out that at the end of the day, it's only the economy that matters, in football there is only one area that really matters - MIDFIELD. Love him or hate him, Wenger has long known this and it is no surprise that he is willing to forgo on defenders and strikers but will never pass up the opportunity to improve his midfield. And this policy has seen them hog top 4 forever! Yes you will not win the league (which you need a complete team for) but having a top class midfield WILL guarantee you champions league year after year.

It's not a surprise that our period of success coincided with the best midfield ever. People forget we made CL with Peter **** Crouch, a clown goalkeeper with butter fingers, and with Corluka and Benny as full backs and an assortment of mediocre centre halves when Ledley was not fit to play! But because of the midfield we flourished. That midfield had a key characteristic: players who were world (or at least international) class - Bale, VDV and Modric - and a supporting cast of water carriers in Lennon, Huddlestone, Sandro and Parker. They complemented the world class players providing graft and presence to the genius of the first three. Plus the overall movement off the ball was outstanding.

Therefore, for all the discussions on other areas, it's the midfield we need to fix and that is our problem

1. None of the current batch of midfielders are good enough for top 4; Eriksen is the most likely candidate to challenge that but he still does not take a game by the scruff of the neck. He may come good in a couple of years as may Bentaleb; but that is a big "may"... Mason is a tidy player but hasn;t shown anything to suggest anything more than mid table quality. Chadli, Strambouli, Paulinho, Capoue... incredible to think we wasted our Bale inheritance on a shopping spree for these and as for Lamela... my opinion is very clear. If he continues to be a waste of space after 6 months, I have little optimism that things will change any time soon.

2. The CL team complemented each other brilliantly. Parker/Huddlestone/Sandro did the dirty work, Modric provided the industry, Bale the pace & power and Lennon the trickery whereas VDV provided the invention and goals. You look at the current batch and what do they stand out in? They all seem to be variations of a theme - jack of all trades but master of none. You could recognise Bale from his runs and shooting, Modric from the passing etc without needing to see their number? Nowadays, they all seem to be doing exactly the same - predictable - thing. No one is particularly good at winning the ball, no one has outstanding pace, no one has the inventiveness to see a pass that the opposition cannot...

3. The third thing with the current crop is that their ball skills and movement are simply not good enough. Their ball control is sub-standard as can be seen by the passes that go astray when trying to play at a fast pace and by the number of times they lose the ball even under no pressure. They cannot predict a pass into space, they are too static and totally unable to move out of their slow paced comfort zone. And as for their movement ???!!! Why do the scum rarely come a cropper against the likes of Palace? Because the only way to break these teams is by constant movement into space. When have we last consistently dominated "lower table" teams? Don't ask me cause I have no idea. THAT is our problem and the reason we suffer so badly at the Lane.

What's the silver lining? I must admit I see mainly clouds on the horizon. Top 4 in the near future? you must be having a laugh. We need a total midfield overhaul with a decent holding midfielder, someone to pull the strings in midfield (how could we possibly have looked the other way when Song became available?) and pacey wide players (I would recall Pritchard and throw him in the deep end; he already shows levels of skill that none of the others have)

Problem is we are back 10 years ago playing catch up...

funny how Mason and Bentaleb ran rings round the Arsanal midfield only a few weeks ago.....their midfield was completely dominated by ours, we overran them, out fought them, out passed them

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

Can we allocate this thread as the KneeJerk one?

 

[Mulletperm]

Hardly kneejerk considering the thread was started in December...

 

[scaramanga]

Hardly kneejerk considering the thread was started in December...

Only gets bumped as a kneejerk though. As Bedford said above, the problem was far from being a midfield one but up goes this thread to the top of the page as soon as we lose.

 

[Modric THFC]

Oh my the irony

If ever a game showed how much our midfield needs to improve, then today was it.

We simply cannot continue to play without a holding midfielder away against the top team; they will run straight through the middle onto goal.

You bumped this thread for this?
A holding midfielder?
What constitutes a holding midfielder?
Why have Mason and Bentaleb got better tackling and interception stats than Capoue, Dembele, Paulinho or Stambouli?
Who is Uniteds holding midfielder?
Who is Real's? Who is Bayern's? Who actually plays with one?
Should Spurs be an ugly reactionary Mourinho team that changes depending on opposition or should we try to play our own game?
Based on how brick United's midfield has been this season until now would you have thought we needed this mythical holding midfielder we don't own before the game?

 

[scaramanga]

Oh my the irony


You bumped this thread for this?
A holding midfielder?
What constitutes a holding midfielder?
Why have Mason and Bentaleb got better tackling and interception stats than Capoue, Dembele, Paulinho or Stambouli?
Who is Uniteds holding midfielder?
Who is Real's? Who is Bayern's? Who actually plays with one?
Should Spurs be an ugly reactionary Mourinho team that changes depending on opposition or should we try to play our own game?
Based on how crude United's midfield has been this season until now would you have thought we needed this mythical holding midfielder we don't own before the game?

Scott Parker?

 

[parklane1]

If ever a game showed how much our midfield needs to improve, then today was it.

We simply cannot continue to play without a holding midfielder away against the top team; they will run straight through the middle onto goal.

I do not always agree with your posts however I do with this. I have been going on for months that we need to find a CM player who is going to do a few things, track runners better, offer more protection to our back four and not get bypassed by the ball over the top of M/F.

As good as Bentaleb and Mason ( not convinced he is as good as some make out) are they lack in these areas. I said in another thread that I sit behind the goals and our CM is wide open on far to many occasions and our back four is wide open to runners. I have been shot down by a few fans for saying it but its true and until we get a player who can play as a DM we will struggle.

 

[Modric THFC]

I do not always agree with your posts however I do with this. I have been going on for months that we need to find a CM player who is going to do a few things, track runners better, offer more protection to our back four and not get bypassed by the ball over the top of M/F.

As good as Bentaleb and Mason ( not convinced he is as good as some make out) are they lack in these areas. I said in another thread that I sit behind the goals and our CM is wide open on far to many occasions and our back four is wide open to runners. I have been shot down by a few fans for saying it but its true and until we get a player who can play as a DM we will struggle.

Maybe we should play a sweeper?
I mean its a bit more outdated than a dm but...

Or maybe instead of getting a time machine Mason and Bentaleb can just sort their issues out. Or is there something special about us that doesn't apply to all the other teams that successfully play with a two man central midfield.

 

[parklane1]

Maybe we should play a sweeper?
I mean its a bit more outdated than a dm but...

Or maybe instead of getting a time machine Mason and Bentaleb can just sort their issues out. Or is there something special about us that doesn't apply to all the other teams that successfully play with a two man central midfield.

We need someone in CM who are better at tracking runners then either Mason or Benteleb, as I say I sit behind the goal and on far to many occasions are CM is wide open and our back four is left exposed and out numbered. And sarcasm does not suit you and spoils whatever good points you may have to make.

 

[Modric THFC]

We need someone in CM who are better at tracking runners then either Mason or Benteleb, as I say I sit behind the goal and on far to many occasions are CM is wide open and our back four is left exposed and out numbered. And sarcasm does not suit you and spoils whatever good points you may have to make.

Why cant Bentaleb do that?
Why does it need to be some hard thick as brick footballer who cant pass.

 

[parklane1]

Why cant Bentaleb do that?
Why does it need to be some hard thick as crud footballer who cant pass.

Because he does not have it in his game, and its a massive generalization on your part to suggest a more defensive player would be thick and unable to pass. Or is that supposed to be sarcasm again.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

Bentaleb is just over 20! If we look at replacing him we are crazy.
Mason if replaced needs to replaced by a similar type, when we lost him for a few weeks it showed that we didnt move ball forward quick enough.

Bar chelsea nobody plays with a straight DM, we need to work on our positioning and structure. I think that is more with the inverted wingers to allow Mason and bentaleb to remain central.

We are a bit easy to pull around sometimes, but that isnt because we dont have a DM. We beat chelsea as we pulled Matic out of position so a DM doesnt resolve team positional issues.

 

[parklane1]

Not suggesting for one minute we get rid of Bentaleb, as for Mason he is home grown but I really believe he is overhyped by some on here. However we need to protect our back four more, our CM is weak they may all be good players but they are open to runners, Eriksen can not tackle and the other two have blindspots which allows opposing players to run in behind them.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

Not suggesting for one minute we get rid of Bentaleb, as for Mason he is home grown but I really believe he is overhyped by some on here. However we need to protect our back four more, our CM is weak they may all be good players but they are open to runners, Eriksen can not tackle and the other two have blindspots which allows opposing players to run in behind them.

I agree we need to protect the back 4 more, however disagree with the solution.
This weekend we needed Townsend to come back with Young, so walker could get closer with fellani and leave Dier in the centre.

If we had a DM he would have been out doing that job which would have just left holes in the centre.

Mason i am undecided if he is the solution, but we need that kind of player (Modric) in there and i wouldnt like to see him pushed out unless we are getting guaranteed quality. However we do not somebody to push him on, as physically i think he can improve