Tanguy Ndombele

[Kandi1977]

Is he gets his defensive work right now consistently, improves his stamina a bit, or plays in a team than can mask his deficiencies he could be a star anywhere. He's that good.

This is by no means a go at you Brain. Just a random pick.

There was little wrong with his defencive work. No one else is utterly brilliant in every aspect, every game. But it seems like the standards set for Ndombele are much higher than for anyone else.
I just don't get it.

He's a fantastic player, and it's the fudging coaching teams responsibility to use him effectively. He does his fair share of defensive work, but it's not his best attribute,but he does a job. He's an offensive midfielder, capable of things no one else are even close to. Use that! CB's aren't picked because of their offensive capabilities.

 

[RunTMC]

I’m pinning my hopes on a couple of things. After the Wolves (or maybe Palace) game he said the team was very far away from playing the way he wants. And yesterday he started with a more attacking lineup.

I’m hoping this suggests more attacking football in the future.

 

[Mcfee]

Another frustrating thing for me with him is that I could see him leaving, going to a Barcelona or somewhere and being a massive success which would reflect so poorly on us again. Don't get me wrong, I hold him responsible for his lack of application rather than Poch/Jose/Nuno but he has it in his own hands to be the best midfield player in the league. He is that talented.

I don’t think there’s a remote chance of any of that happening.

 

[metalgear]

Because the upside is massive if we succeed.

Getting a team where everyone's hungry is easy enough. Getting a team where everyone's hungry and actually good enough to get us where we want to be is a lot more difficult.

Seems like Nuno is doing a good job with Ndombele so far, let's set how far he can go.

IF we succeed.

If we fail, I would think the downside is equally bad. WE actually prove they are non performers and will go for much less. While in the meantime they will be a drag on performance, team morale (imagine how youngsters waiting to displace them must feel) and adding complexity to training, formations and substitution.

Its about how much risks we take. If Dele and Winks and Dier were firing on all cylinders I am sure we can accomodate a struggling Ndomb and Doherty, and have the luxury of giving chances to Gil, Scarlett and others.

 

[braineclipse]

This is by no means a go at you Brain. Just a random pick.

There was little wrong with his defencive work. No one else is utterly brilliant in every aspect, every game. But it seems like the standards set for Ndombele are much higher than for anyone else.
I just don't get it.

He's a fantastic player, and it's the fudging coaching teams responsibility to use him effectively. He does his fair share of defensive work, but it's not his best attribute,but he does a job. He's an offensive midfielder, capable of things no one else are even close to. Use that! CB's aren't picked because of their offensive capabilities.

I agree. But the defensive responsibilities of the wider central midfielders in this system are rather extreme imo. There are a lot of top quality deep creative midfielders that I think would struggle to fit into that role for that reason.

I agree that the standards shouldn't be set higher for Ndombele than others. But it should be set by the requirements of the role he plays, or could play. Hojbjerg and Alli have don't extremely well in that regard, I think that's the level this system requires, against many opponents at least.

It's on Nuno to get the best out of him. But it's also on Nuno to get the best out of the entire squad. It's on Ndombele to do his job when given the chance. I think he did that against Rennes, but defensively I think we need more in bigger games at least, in this system.

 

[braineclipse]

IF we succeed.

If we fail, I would think the downside is equally bad. WE actually prove they are non performers and will go for much less. While in the meantime they will be a drag on performance, team morale (imagine how youngsters waiting to displace them must feel) and adding complexity to training, formations and substitution.

Its about how much risks we take. If Dele and Winks and Dier were firing on all cylinders I am sure we can accomodate a struggling Ndomb and Doherty, and have the luxury of giving chances to Gil, Scarlett and others.

I think any potential fee we could get would be similarly lessened by him not playing. A once high value, current high earning player not playing is a sure fire way of lowering the value imo.

Not sure where the prove he's a non performer comes from. He started 28 league games last season, for a while he was one of our best players and a nailed on starter.

Imagine that Rennes game without his creativity and quality on the ball. What does that look like? It's not hard to imagine, I think it looks like the first hour against Palace. If anything his presence accommodated others that offered so very little.

He was the one standout positive attacking player in the game. The only standout positive attacking player we've had in the last two games (Rennes and Palace). The Chelsea game probably isn't the right game for him to start now. In general though. The risks of not playing him, the risks of being ineffective against a low block and unable to play through pressure. Those risks are massive.

Who is this youngster that could replace Ndombele? On merit, who would have played better than him on the night? Gil didn't. Scarlett didn't.

 

[Bishop]

I think any potential fee we could get would be similarly lessened by him not playing. A once high value, current high earning player not playing is a sure fire way of lowering the value imo.

Not sure where the prove he's a non performer comes from. He started 28 league games last season, for a while he was one of our best players and a nailed on starter.

Imagine that Rennes game without his creativity and quality on the ball. What does that look like? It's not hard to imagine, I think it looks like the first hour against Palace. If anything his presence accommodated others that offered so very little.

He was the one standout positive attacking player in the game. The only standout positive attacking player we've had in the last two games (Rennes and Palace). The Chelsea game probably isn't the right game for him to start now. In general though. The risks of not playing him, the risks of being ineffective against a low block and unable to play through pressure. Those risks are massive.

Who is this youngster that could replace Ndombele? On merit, who would have played better than him on the night? Gil didn't. Scarlett didn't.

I'm very much of the same mind. Ndombele isn't without his faults but his positives so far outshine negatives for us it's a bit of a no-brainer. Sure if we had some other creative options in midfield then there would be an argument to made as whether he was worth the downsides but as it stands it seems pretty bleeding obvious that his.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm very much of the same mind. Ndombele isn't without his faults but his positives so far outshine negatives for us it's a bit of a no-brainer. Sure if we had some other creative options in midfield then there would be an argument to made as whether he was worth the downsides but as it stands it seems pretty bleeding obvious that his.

The key with him is we haven’t seen him in front of 2 solid holders yet

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

I'd. play him against Chelsea. Its not like we've got a lot of attacking options to choose from, especially with our injuries.

We're going to lose with or without him., so might as well play him him have a slight chance of a draw or even a cheeky win

Audere est facere right?

 

[braineclipse]

Very happy that he got the start against Chelsea.

Not at all a great performance from him. Didn't find the line breaking passes or the skill to get past lines of pressure in key areas. But he did alright, and I feel confident those things will come if he keeps getting games.

Did alright defensively, not great, not as well as Hojbjerg would have done in that role, but alright.

Question remains if he can up his stamina and conditioning to be a regular starter and last physically at the first half wanes and further into the second half. If he can do that he will solve problems for us.

Would give him a breather midweek, start him again against Arsenal. He's only starting to get back to match fitness. Need him to build on this.

 

[mjc23]

Very happy that he got the start against Chelsea.

Not at all a great performance from him. Didn't find the line breaking passes or the skill to get past lines of pressure in key areas. But he did alright, and I feel confident those things will come if he keeps getting games.

Did alright defensively, not great, not as well as Hojbjerg would have done in that role, but alright.

Question remains if he can up his stamina and conditioning to be a regular starter and last physically at the first half wanes and further into the second half. If he can do that he will solve problems for us.

Would give him a breather midweek, start him again against Arsenal. He's only starting to get back to match fitness. Need him to build on this.

Yes I'm glad he started, think he will be one of our most important players this season.
The line breaking passes were probably missing due to the lack of pace and movement in front of him. No one really willing to make runs in behind the defence.

 

[elltrev]

He always has brilliant moments, but he never seems to me to be able to keep them going across the 60-90 mins he’s on the pitch, to really control a game. Always has extended quiet periods. Is it just a stamina thing? Or an attitude thing? I just don’t know, but I’m so desperate for him to fulfil his potential here.

Still, was happy to see him starting, and at least showing flashes of ability and work rate.

 

[Finney Is Back]

If Nuno wants to persist with the 4-3-3 counter attacking formation as seems to be the case then I would like to see us go with something like the following when all are fit:

-------------------Lloris
Royal----Romero-----Dier-------Regi
------Hojbjerg-----------Dele/Skipp
-----------------Ndombele
-Moura------------Son-----------Bergwijn

Yes.... That means no Harry Kane. Until he starts to play like he wants to be in the team he can be left out. At present he can come on for Ndombele when he tires after an hour or so.

The job of the two deeper midfielders is to plug the centre and also get out to help their full back. Ndombele can be partly freed up from defensive responsibility and used to play through the start of the opposition's press and then when he has broke their press that will leave us on with balls in behind the opposition to our pacey front three. I think those personnel would suit Nuno's system, just with a slight tweak to have 1 creative player in the team instead of having an entire midfield 3 of combative runners which makes it difficult to get the ball in behind as it is typically coming from too deep.

With the way that we play, having our wide forwards freed up of defensive responsibility I can really see why Nuno wanted Traore.

On a completely unrelated note I must say that Dier is starting to make me eat my words with his performances at the back. I don't think that many centre backs will handle Lukaku as well as he did yesterday.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If Nuno wants to persist with the 4-3-3 counter attacking formation as seems to be the case then I would like to see us go with something like the following when all are fit:

-------------------Lloris
Royal----Romero-----Dier-------Regi
------Hojbjerg-----------Dele/Skipp
-----------------Ndombele
-Moura------------Son-----------Bergwijn

Yes. No Harry Kane. Until he starts to play like he wants to be in the team he can be left out.

The job of the two deeper midfielders is to plug the centre and also get out to help their full back. Ndombele can be partly freed up from defensive responsibility and used to play through the start of the opposition's press and then when he has broke their press that will leave us on with balls in behind the opposition to our pacey front three. I think those personnel would suit Nuno's system, just with a slight tweak to have 1 creative player in the team instead of having an entire midfield 3 of combative runners which makes it difficult to get the ball in behind as it is typically coming from too deep.

With the way that we play, having our wide forwards freed up of defensive responsibility I can really see why Nuno wanted Traore.

On a completely unrelated note I must say that Dier is starting to make me eat my words with his performances at the back. I don't think that many centre backs will handle Lukaku as well as he did yesterday.

agree with this except I’d have lo Celso in tanguys role as he can last longer
Dier has been excellent really (low bar considering) and it looked to me like him and Romero had a balance yesterday against what I think is the best side in the country by some way
Lukaku didn’t have a shot all game and the defence restricted them well
Shame we lost the midfield once Kante came on but I could see it happening

 

[StephenH]

GLC underwhelmed again but I’m probably expecting too much.

It looks like we/Nuno need to train even harder.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

GLC underwhelmed again but I’m probably expecting too much.

It looks like we/Nuno need to train even harder.

TBF he had 1 day in training with the COVID idiots

 

[StephenH]

TBF he had 1 day in training with the COVID idiots

 

[Finney Is Back]

agree with this except I’d have lo Celso in tanguys role as he can last longer
Dier has been excellent really (low bar considering) and it looked to me like him and Romero had a balance yesterday against what I think is the best side in the country by some way
Lukaku didn’t have a shot all game and the defence restricted them well
Shame we lost the midfield once Kante came on but I could see it happening

Being able to last longer isn't something that I would use to decide who starts for us. Lo Celso is considerably worse on the ball than Ndombele, so Ndombele gets the nod for the starting position. The way that Lo Celso lost the ball yesterday for Chelsea's second goal shows why I wouldn't trust him in that central role where he would often have to receive the ball with an opponent right on top of them.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Being able to last longer isn't something that I would use to decide who starts for us. Lo Celso is considerably worse on the ball than Ndombele, so Ndombele gets the nod for the starting position. The way that Lo Celso lost the ball yesterday for Chelsea's second goal shows why I wouldn't trust him in that central role where he would often have to receive the ball with an opponent right on top of them.

True
Shame Tanguy wasn’t on the pitch at the time (I’m being sarcastic)

 

[Mcfee]

agree with this except I’d have lo Celso in tanguys role as he can last longer
Dier has been excellent really (low bar considering) and it looked to me like him and Romero had a balance yesterday against what I think is the best side in the country by some way
Lukaku didn’t have a shot all game and the defence restricted them well
Shame we lost the midfield once Kante came on but I could see it happening

Re Ndombele and Lo Celso, replace one with the other when the first one tires. I’d written off Ndombele but was so impressed with him yesterday for the first 30 mins. We’d be mad not to use his ability for at least part of the game even knowing that he’s not going to last much beyond 45.