Squad for 2015-16 season

[parklane1]

The pressing game is played from the front not the middle. When we have been on top of our game we have looked very good pressing and have not given away too many chances. I don't think that we have reached that level enough and the team look mentally tired to me now but I think that Poch has built a strong platform to push on from.

I know where the pressing game should start from, I am happy with Poch so I am not getting at him or Bentaleb/Mason. I sit behind the goal and our marking of runners into/onto our back four is poor ( to say the least) once again I say we have the fifth most goals conceded in the Prem and there is no way from getting away from that.

The players do look mentally tired I agree but we have been conceding goals all season so that is not the only reason.

 

[Raziel]

How many top teams play with a player like that? I think that players who can read the game and close down space are more important than tacklers these days.

When our pressing game has clicked we have not looked weak at the back because we have closed down as a unit. What we need to do now is to perform at that level more consistently.

Not pretending to be a tactical specialist, but I think there is a few things re the DM/defensive conversation

- First, we have to admit that as a defensive unit we are not doing well enough, and its not all the back 4's fault.
- we could talk about do we need a more pure DM or
- We can talk about the defensive/attacking principle that BMJ had mentioned, i.e. without the DM/not DM conversation, how many of our midfielders are defensive minded, vs. how many of our midfielders are attacking minding. If you look at Cheat$ki as example, while they may not play the old "Makelele" type, they can play 2-3 more defensive players in midfield vs. 2-3 more attacking players, a option we don't have.

 

[parklane1]

Not pretending to be a tactical specialist, but I think there is a few things re the DM/defensive conversation

- First, we have to admit that as a defensive unit we are not doing well enough, and its not all the back 4's fault.
- we could talk about do we need a more pure DM or
- We can talk about the defensive/attacking principle that BMJ had mentioned, i.e. without the DM/not DM conversation, how many of our midfielders are defensive minded, vs. how many of our midfielders are attacking minding. If you look at Cheat$ki as example, while they may not play the old "Makelele" type, they can play 2-3 more defensive players in midfield vs. 2-3 more attacking players, a option we don't have.

None of them and that is our biggest problem, we can keep blaming our back four but as you say its not all down to them.

 

[P.D.]

None of them and that is our biggest problem, we can keep blaming our back four but as you say its not all down to them.

Not entirely but our full backs have been poor for a long time now defensively, don't track runners and get exposed so the wide man gets free on the wings to cross/cut back a lot. This is pulling out CB's out of position a lot trying to cover and getting caught in no mans land.

Walker especially needs a boost, hopefully Yedlin will cause him to raise his game though to be fair he had a long injury and no pre season. Would like to see Davies play a little more as well, Rose is great getting forward but gives away a lot of niggly fouls and is positionally poor.

 

[braineclipse]

Not pretending to be a tactical specialist, but I think there is a few things re the DM/defensive conversation

- First, we have to admit that as a defensive unit we are not doing well enough, and its not all the back 4's fault.
- we could talk about do we need a more pure DM or
- We can talk about the defensive/attacking principle that BMJ had mentioned, i.e. without the DM/not DM conversation, how many of our midfielders are defensive minded, vs. how many of our midfielders are attacking minding. If you look at Cheat$ki as example, while they may not play the old "Makelele" type, they can play 2-3 more defensive players in midfield vs. 2-3 more attacking players, a option we don't have.

Even excluding Capoue we could play Stambouli and Dembele in midfield and it would definitely be more defensive. If we want 3 more defensive players Stambouli, Dembele and Bentaleb would have plenty of defensively ability imo.

Looking at the Chelsea example. What Mourinho has done is assemble a team where everyone works very hard as a unit. Even Hazard got brick for not tracking back enough next season and he's pretty close to a superstar, but that's not enough for Mourinho - you also have to work hard. That's a team they've assembled spending a massive chunk of money. Poch is still in his first season with us, hopefully when next season kicks in we'll have lost a few that aren't ready to work hard for the team all the time and have gained a few that will.

 

[Cochise]

To my mind we need someone who can screen the back four better than Bentaleb and Mason. The 4141 defensive formation we employed against Burnley was a step in the right direction IMO. In the previous defensive setup, we used to see players shuttling across to cover switches in the opposition play, but this lead to problems (see Liverpool's 3rd(?) goal) when our 3 AM's failed to track their men. If you watch back a few of our games our defence looks scrambled because the midfield line is constantly re-arranging to put out the nearest fire and as a result holes appear.

Against Burnley Bentaleb did ok, but he looked lost at times and often caught in no mans land being forced to react and not pre empting too much. In a way it's an ideal time to bring in someone like Stambouli, because at least we have players who can both work hard and pass the ball out alongside him. IIRC Dembele was the most frequent partner to Stambouli and the ball never got recycled quickly enough.

 

[braineclipse]

To my mind we need someone who can screen the back four better than Bentaleb and Mason. The 4141 defensive formation we employed against Burnley was a step in the right direction IMO. In the previous defensive setup, we used to see players shuttling across to cover switches in the opposition play, but this lead to problems (see Liverpool's 3rd(?) goal) when our 3 AM's failed to track their men. If you watch back a few of our games our defence looks scrambled because the midfield line is constantly re-arranging to put out the nearest fire and as a result holes appear.

Against Burnley Bentaleb did ok, but he looked lost at times and often caught in no mans land being forced to react and not pre empting too much. In a way it's an ideal time to bring in someone like Stambouli, because at least we have players who can both work hard and pass the ball out alongside him. IIRC Dembele was the most frequent partner to Stambouli and the ball never got recycled quickly enough.

For me at least a more defensive minded midfielder is more of a short term solution, if Pochettino (still) wants us to become an excellent pressing team.

Some of the shuttling across looking scrambled thing is (imo) a result of some of the challenges associated with a high pressing game. Winning the ball back quickly is key, putting pressure on the man on the ball is key. When the ball is initially lost the idea is to "put out the nearest fire", doesn't particularly matter if it's a full back or a striker closest to the opponent on the ball, the majority of the time they should be closing down aggressively. Then there's a transition from that when we aren't able to win the ball quickly and go back to a (perhaps deeper) more organized defensive structure after a handful of seconds. In addition to that there's the transition associated with how highly we press when organized, we can't press all the way up all the time and the team has to act in unity for the system to work.

Schneiderlin talked about how after 5-6 months (or something like that) at Southampton Pochettino's system really started clicking into place. For us it's taken a bit longer. I think that's partly a result of the amount of changes he's overseen with us, partly the suitability of the players, partly the number of games meaning less time on the training ground and probably factors I'm not thinking of right now.

For me at least the focus should be on continuing to develop that pressing game and working on how we defend as a unit. Players that adapt stay, those that can't can gtfo. And, not least, continue to develop our very young group of players into that system. We have some wonderful talents at the club, they will surely benefit from more time on the pitch.

I thought bringing in Paulinho for Townsend (effectively), was a decent choice. It gave us more discipline and work rate in that attacking 4/front 6/whatever group of players. And that made us more solid.

 

[indianspur]

For me at least the focus should be on continuing to develop that pressing game and working on how we defend as a unit. Players that adapt stay, those that can't can gtfo. And, not least, continue to develop our very young group of players into that system. We have some wonderful talents at the club, they will surely benefit from more time on the pitch.

I thought bringing in Paulinho for Townsend (effectively), was a decent choice. It gave us more discipline and work rate in that attacking 4/front 6/whatever group of players. And that made us more solid.

i would have preferred Lamela to start instead of paulinho. He works harder than Paulinho and has shown to be disciplined and offers more going forward. I dont understand how why he has fallen out of favour

 

[braineclipse]

i would have preferred Lamela to start instead of paulinho. He works harder than Paulinho and has shown to be disciplined and offers more going forward. I dont understand how why he has fallen out of favour

I'm probably one of Lamela's biggest supporters on here.

I would have preferred him to Townsend all along, I would have preferred him to Paulinho. I don't know why he hasn't been starting recently. I thought he looked useful once again when he came on against Burnley.

Paulinho did well when he came on against Leicester though. I can only guess that he's been doing well in training and so Poch thought he was the better choice. One thing that does make sense with Paulinho is that he usually keeps it pretty simple, particularly in the middle third of the pitch. Lamela seems to struggle with evaluating risks and ends up giving the ball away too much. In a way Paulinho was a the safer option, particularly if, as it seemed, Pochettino wanted him to drop a bit deeper on occasion.

Or perhaps like some one here Pochettino thinks that Lamela and Eriksen struggle to play together. Or perhaps there are issues behind the scenes despite Lamela's hard work on the pitch. Or perhaps Pochettino has decided to give him some time away from the limelight and work on some of his problems on the training ground for a while. Who knows?

 

[parklane1]

To my mind we need someone who can screen the back four better than Bentaleb and Mason. The 4141 defensive formation we employed against Burnley was a step in the right direction IMO. In the previous defensive setup, we used to see players shuttling across to cover switches in the opposition play, but this lead to problems (see Liverpool's 3rd(?) goal) when our 3 AM's failed to track their men. If you watch back a few of our games our defence looks scrambled because the midfield line is constantly re-arranging to put out the nearest fire and as a result holes appear.

Against Burnley Bentaleb did ok, but he looked lost at times and often caught in no mans land being forced to react and not pre empting too much. In a way it's an ideal time to bring in someone like Stambouli, because at least we have players who can both work hard and pass the ball out alongside him. IIRC Dembele was the most frequent partner to Stambouli and the ball never got recycled quickly enough.

I have been saying the same thing for weeks now, we can slag off our back four as much as we want but the truth is our CM offers no protection to the back four. Now I like Stambouli and think he needs a run in the side, I do not know if it will work well for him but there is no doubt in my mind that unless Poch sorts it out we will have the same problems next season as well.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I have been saying the same thing for weeks now, we can slag off our back four as much as we want but the truth is our CM offers no protection to the back four. Now I like Stambouli and think he needs a run in the side, I do not know if it will work well for him but there is no doubt in my mind that unless Poch sorts it out we will have the same problems next season as well.

What about a 4-3-3 with Chadli, Kane and Eriksen ahead of Bentaleb, Kane and Mason?

Gives us that extra strength in CM whilst helping that neither of Townsend or Lamela have been great of late

 

[parklane1]

What about a 4-3-3 with Chadli, Kane and Eriksen ahead of Bentaleb, Kane and Mason?

Gives us that extra strength in CM whilst helping that neither of Townsend or Lamela have been great of late

I take it you mean Stambouli ( not Kane), if so I would be happy to see that. As I have said before I am not convinced about Mason ( I know you are) however with the extra player doing the defensive side of the game it could work.

 

[braineclipse]

I have been saying the same thing for weeks now, we can slag off our back four as much as we want but the truth is our CM offers no protection to the back four. Now I like Stambouli and think he needs a run in the side, I do not know if it will work well for him but there is no doubt in my mind that unless Poch sorts it out we will have the same problems next season as well.

Did you think that was true against Burnley too? Apart from Mason gifting them the big chance early on they created very little. Despite us being without Lloris and Vertonghen and playing Vlad and Ben Davies at centre back next to the young and inexperienced Dier...

 

[parklane1]

Did you think that was true against Burnley too? Apart from Mason gifting them the big chance early on they created very little. Despite us being without Lloris and Vertonghen and playing Vlad and Ben Davies at centre back next to the young and inexperienced Dier...

As others have said we did look better, however as others have already pointed out Paulinio ( giving us more cover) spent more time defending and Burnley are the 3rd lowest goalscorers in the Prem so its not surprising they created little.

 

[braineclipse]

As others have said we did look better, however as others have already pointed out Paulinio ( giving us more cover) spent more time defending and Burnley are the 3rd lowest goalscorers in the Prem so its not surprising they created little.

Yes. Paulinho gave us more cover, defensively he was an upgrade on Townsend who he effectively replaced in the line-up. That made us more solid. But if a change like that can make us more solid is it really right to claim that our CM offers "no protection to the back 4". Would a cm that could actually be described like that look solid in any circumstances? Would they be made to look solid by having Paulinho ahead of them? Even against Burnley... (And that was protecting a back 4 without Verts, without Lloris behind them, and Vlad/Davies in one of the centre back positions).

I somehow doubt it. To me it continues to look like our CM is not really the problem defensively. More work rate and discipline from the "attacking 4" and we look much more solid defensively.

 

[parklane1]

Yes. Paulinho gave us more cover, defensively he was an upgrade on Townsend who he effectively replaced in the line-up. That made us more solid. But if a change like that can make us more solid is it really right to claim that our CM offers "no protection to the back 4". Would a cm that could actually be described like that look solid in any circumstances? Would they be made to look solid by having Paulinho ahead of them? Even against Burnley... (And that was protecting a back 4 without Verts, without Lloris behind them, and Vlad/Davies in one of the centre back positions).

I somehow doubt it. To me it continues to look like our CM is not really the problem defensively. More work rate and discipline from the "attacking 4" and we look much more solid defensively.

That does not make sense, we had a extra man in there and we looked more solid in you own words. Paulinho is not the answer but a more defensive player in our CM is, especially against better teams.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes. Paulinho gave us more cover, defensively he was an upgrade on Townsend who he effectively replaced in the line-up. That made us more solid. But if a change like that can make us more solid is it really right to claim that our CM offers "no protection to the back 4". Would a cm that could actually be described like that look solid in any circumstances? Would they be made to look solid by having Paulinho ahead of them? Even against Burnley... (And that was protecting a back 4 without Verts, without Lloris behind them, and Vlad/Davies in one of the centre back positions).

I somehow doubt it. To me it continues to look like our CM is not really the problem defensively. More work rate and discipline from the "attacking 4" and we look much more solid defensively.

I agree 100% with the last line... The front 4 have to work harder than ever for Pochs pressing game. It's why we need genuine options there rather than sticking fillers which I feel we have at the moment. Im one of Lamellas biggest critics but when he came on they created nothing and we started to create something

I also don't think we ere more solid because of Poorlinho.. Anyone could have done what he did which was patrols the halfway line for most of the game. I think we looked more solid because they played in really tight lines and didn't push men forward enough. I also thought the defence other than walker played really well as a unit. I don't get why Poch would play Paulinho against Burnley as a defensive decision??? I do get giving him am chance after Leicester and fair dives but I can't believe he was there to make us harder to score against.

The key for me is press high up the pitch and when you have the ball, keep it. It's why I think Dembele has been criminally underused in the current team. If we do those things better the pressure is released off the back 4 and we can use the Maselab combo as an attacking threat rather than mopping up everything. Lamella for all his faults defends from the front!!!

 

[demotw]

We were stronger in the middle, but didn't stop Burnley who really should have scoring a couple. We gave them nothing to worry about themselves, and I only presume Paulinho was picked as while giving the strength is the only CM likely to go beyond the striker when we attack, but he picked the ball up so deep and Kane for some reason hasn't held onto it as well as he has done in the past which just pushed them back onto us. So I guess the issue was more the front 3 in this game instead of focusing on the mid, Eriksen didn't link the play as he has done, Kane hasn't held it up as well as he has done and Chadli didn't do a lot either.

 

[braineclipse]

That does not make sense, we had a extra man in there and we looked more solid in you own words. Paulinho is not the answer but a more defensive player in our CM is, especially against better teams.

Depends how you view the formation I suppose. Could be described as a 4-3-3 with the extra man in central midfield, but with the wide players given more attacking freedom. Or as a 4-2-3-1 with Paulinho in the #10 position. I don't think it was a 4-5-1 or 4-1-4-1 type thing.

I definitely think we can get attacking midfielders that work as hard and well as Paulinho defensively (he's not really all that defensively), offering a similar protection for our "back 6" and at the same time offering much more going forward. I think perhaps Lamela could be that player for example.

 

[parklane1]

Depends how you view the formation I suppose. Could be described as a 4-3-3 with the extra man in central midfield, but with the wide players given more attacking freedom. Or as a 4-2-3-1 with Paulinho in the #10 position. I don't think it was a 4-5-1 or 4-1-4-1 type thing.

I definitely think we can get attacking midfielders that work as hard and well as Paulinho defensively (he's not really all that defensively), offering a similar protection for our "back 6" and at the same time offering much more going forward. I think perhaps Lamela could be that player for example.

To be honest one of the things that is wrong with football today is that a lot of fans are obessed ( not saying you are)with formations and many good points are lost in the focus on them. At the end of the day its players ( and their strengths and weaknesses) that matter and the main problem with the two of Mason and Betaleb is that neither of them have the a good defensive awareness of tracking runners and leaving to much space behind them.

I agree that Paulinho is not a defensive player but the fact that he looked better doing it against Burnley then either Mason or Bentaleb did/have done says a lot about the problems we have there at the present time.