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Son Heung-Min

thfcsteff said:
No, nothing like that IMO.

For me, it simply comes down to hoping that people are more studied in their observations and criticisms. Take Doherty. It was clear he was signed as a RWB, and immediately deployed as a FB. Not his best role. When played for a few games in his natural position, he was really good. But people were tripping over themselves to coat the bloke, with zero context. Royal the same. Even PEH, to the extent that his continual football/potential fatigue got ignored. The two who deserved it IMV, were LoCelso and Ndombele, with LoCelso a main offender for me as he simply did not seem to take things as seriously as I expect a first-team player with his talent to do.

No-one is beyond criticism. Everyone should be beyond unqualified and unreasonable criticism surely...
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Mostly agree. Though with GLC I think it's another one that's more about role and system. Does he all of a sudden take things more seriously when back in Spain?

To bring it back to Son, I guess I agree somewhat that there's been criticism that's perhaps lacked nuance. I may have been guilty of that myself. I still think he's a level below Kane. However one describes Kane, world class, superstar, whatever. I think slightly different words should be used for Son.

He's been exceptional though. Where he's truly excellent, finishing and assisting with either foot, running in behind and running at defenders with space to exploit he's up there with the very best of them.
 
braineclipse said:
Mostly agree. Though with GLC I think it's another one that's more about role and system. Does he all of a sudden take things more seriously when back in Spain?

To bring it back to Son, I guess I agree somewhat that there's been criticism that's perhaps lacked nuance. I may have been guilty of that myself. I still think he's a level below Kane. However one describes Kane, world class, superstar, whatever. I think slightly different words should be used for Son.

He's been exceptional though. Where he's truly excellent, finishing and assisting with either foot, running in behind and running at defenders with space to exploit he's up there with the very best of them.
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As an aside, I was surprised to see that Lo Celso only has 1 goal and 1 assist in 16 La Liga and Champions League starts, all of them as an attacking midfielder. A very poor output by anyone's standards. I appreciate he's starting in a team that got to the CL semi-finals, but seeing these stats made me wonder if he isn't actually playing that well for them?
 
elltrev said:
As an aside, I was surprised to see that Lo Celso only has 1 goal and 1 assist in 16 La Liga and Champions League starts, all of them as an attacking midfielder. A very poor output by anyone's standards. I appreciate he's starting in a team that got to the CL semi-finals, but seeing these stats made me wonder if he isn't actually playing that well for them?
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You can’t use assists of an indicator as to whether someone is playing well or not. I’ve lost count of the number of players who get assists for a simple 5 yard pass to someone who shoots from range and scores. Or a player like Modric who does the majority of work leading up to a goal but someone else gets the actual assist. Or a player creating chances that are then squandered so no assist. It is not a great indicator of a players overall performance…..
 
harr1984 said:
You can’t use assists of an indicator as to whether someone is playing well or not. I’ve lost count of the number of players who get assists for a simple 5 yard pass to someone who shoots from range and scores. Or a player like Modric who does the majority of work leading up to a goal but someone else gets the actual assist. Or a player creating chances that are then squandered so no assist. It is not a great indicator of a players overall performance…..
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You're talking about xGChain and/or xGBuildup. Lo Celso fares reasonably well in that sense when compared to a midfielder who doesn't create:
locelso.png

He holds up reasonably against the best:
locelso.png

Edit: Turns out Modric is no longer the best in this regard. Both players are absolutely beasted by Kimmich.
 
harr1984 said:
You can’t use assists of an indicator as to whether someone is playing well or not. I’ve lost count of the number of players who get assists for a simple 5 yard pass to someone who shoots from range and scores. Or a player like Modric who does the majority of work leading up to a goal but someone else gets the actual assist. Or a player creating chances that are then squandered so no assist. It is not a great indicator of a players overall performance…..
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Yeah I hear what you're saying. I would normally respond to say that 16 starts is a decent enough sample size for the kind of randomness you describe to even out to some extent. But actually, more detailed stats show that isn't the case for Lo Celso! (At least in the league.) You're right that 1 assist seems to be underplaying his creativity, as his xA (expected assists) is much higher:

upload_2022-5-19_13-1-47.png
 
elltrev said:
Yeah I hear what you're saying. I would normally respond to say that 16 starts is a decent enough sample size for the kind of randomness you describe to even out to some extent. But actually, more detailed stats show that isn't the case for Lo Celso! (At least in the league.) You're right that 1 assist seems to be underplaying his creativity, as his xA (expected assists) is much higher:

View attachment 14085
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But that is pretty much LoCelso in a nutshell isn’t it, promises alot, but in the end it just isn’t enough.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Yes, I was just about to post that I think this one is voted on very early in the year - something like Feb or March, so likely before his current purple patch.
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It's absurd. Like a movie critic leaving half way into the movie to write his review, or a chef serving a dish with only two thirds of the ingredients.
 
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