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Son Heung-Min

90291Spur said:
But still lots of reasons for some on here to make petty criticisms of him when he fails over or misses a chance.
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At this point, there's more people that complain about complaints about Son than there are people complaining about Son. Unfortunately, this trend seems to permeate throughout the forum so it's not isolated to just Son. At the risk of taking this comment personally (sorry but seen this line of argument too often lately), are players not allowed to be called out if they have a bad performance? This is like reverse-Sissoko treatment. People were lining up to smear him after playing decently for us.
It's just tiresome seeing posters imply that some players have some magical anti-criticism armor. Thing is, if someone said we should sell Son, then they're probably a troll and you should not feed them, but that's the only exception I can think of.
 
papaspur said:
At this point, there's more people that complain about complaints about Son than there are people complaining about Son. Unfortunately, this trend seems to permeate throughout the forum so it's not isolated to just Son. At the risk of taking this comment personally (sorry but seen this line of argument too often lately), are players not allowed to be called out if they have a bad performance? This is like reverse-Sissoko treatment. People were lining up to smear him after playing decently for us.
It's just tiresome seeing posters imply that some players have some magical anti-criticism armor. Thing is, if someone said we should sell Son, then they're probably a troll and you should not feed them, but that's the only exception I can think of.
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Within limits we can all say what we like. And we can all critique when things go wrong. But some comments on some players appear to be based on a model of only robotic perfection being good enough. And some are based on purely emotional reactions that don’t take into account a nuanced assessment of how a game has gone.
So perhaps my comment doesn’t pertain to you and your comments.
 
papaspur said:
At this point, there's more people that complain about complaints about Son than there are people complaining about Son. Unfortunately, this trend seems to permeate throughout the forum so it's not isolated to just Son. At the risk of taking this comment personally (sorry but seen this line of argument too often lately), are players not allowed to be called out if they have a bad performance? This is like reverse-Sissoko treatment. People were lining up to smear him after playing decently for us.
It's just tiresome seeing posters imply that some players have some magical anti-criticism armor. Thing is, if someone said we should sell Son, then they're probably a troll and you should not feed them, but that's the only exception I can think of.
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No, nothing like that IMO.

For me, it simply comes down to hoping that people are more studied in their observations and criticisms. Take Doherty. It was clear he was signed as a RWB, and immediately deployed as a FB. Not his best role. When played for a few games in his natural position, he was really good. But people were tripping over themselves to coat the bloke, with zero context. Royal the same. Even PEH, to the extent that his continual football/potential fatigue got ignored. The two who deserved it IMV, were LoCelso and Ndombele, with LoCelso a main offender for me as he simply did not seem to take things as seriously as I expect a first-team player with his talent to do.

No-one is beyond criticism. Everyone should be beyond unqualified and unreasonable criticism surely...
 
thfcsteff said:
No, nothing like that IMO.

For me, it simply comes down to hoping that people are more studied in their observations and criticisms. Take Doherty. It was clear he was signed as a RWB, and immediately deployed as a FB. Not his best role. When played for a few games in his natural position, he was really good. But people were tripping over themselves to coat the bloke, with zero context. Royal the same. Even PEH, to the extent that his continual football/potential fatigue got ignored. The two who deserved it IMV, were LoCelso and Ndombele, with LoCelso a main offender for me as he simply did not seem to take things as seriously as I expect a first-team player with his talent to do.

No-one is beyond criticism. Everyone should be beyond unqualified and unreasonable criticism surely...
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You’re right but conversely we had people on here claiming that Doherty’s absence was the reason for our poisonous displays against Brighton and Brentford as if he was the key attacking player. And Emerson got it in the neck for that.

Doherty is a decent wing back but correlation does not equal causation. There are a lot of players who have suddenly become world beaters when they’re absent.
 
DeanoAustin said:
You’re right but conversely we had people on here claiming that Doherty’s absence was the reason for our poisonous displays against Brighton and Brentford as if he was the key attacking player. And Emerson got it in the neck for that.

Doherty is a decent wing back but correlation does not equal causation. There are a lot of players who have suddenly become world beaters when they’re absent.
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Missing Doherty was a massive part of the reason why we didnt attack in those games
Just as Moura okaying yesterday hurt our attack too
Players who can play in the system are much more effective than those who can’t. The issue with the current system is that those who can’t then drag others out of the way of playing
We saw in the two games you mention that players wouldn’t pass to Royal. That hurt our game massively
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
Missing Doherty was a massive part of the reason why we didnt attack in those games
Just as Moura okaying yesterday hurt our attack too
Players who can play in the system are much more effective than those who can’t. The issue with the current system is that those who can’t then drag others out of the way of playing
We saw in the two games you mention that players wouldn’t pass to Royal. That hurt our game massively
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Gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Matt Doherty is a decent player but never has been and never will be the reason why we can’t muster a shot on target against anyone.
 
DeanoAustin said:
You’re right but conversely we had people on here claiming that Doherty’s absence was the reason for our poisonous displays against Brighton and Brentford as if he was the key attacking player. And Emerson got it in the neck for that.

Doherty is a decent wing back but correlation does not equal causation. There are a lot of players who have suddenly become world beaters when they’re absent.
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You can count me in that for Brighton.
The team was still fragile and learning how to deploy the system for 95 minutes. To lose a just-rediscovered WB at that moment in time was terrible. He does not equal causation, but it's a bigger picture. Conte's Spurs is a team, a system.
If we complete the job on Sunday (and I believe we will) it will be because of one man. Antonio Conte.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Missing Doherty was a massive part of the reason why we didnt attack in those games
Just as Moura okaying yesterday hurt our attack too
Players who can play in the system are much more effective than those who can’t. The issue with the current system is that those who can’t then drag others out of the way of playing
We saw in the two games you mention that players wouldn’t pass to Royal. That hurt our game massively
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100% agree.

TO that point, Conte's work with Royal since has been excellent, and Royal's response top drawer. It has resulted in full trust in him and a subsequent bump in performances. But it took a bit of time.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Matt Doherty is a decent player but never has been and never will be the reason why we can’t muster a shot on target against anyone.
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No
But the other players are the reason… they didn’t adapt to not having him there
And of course Brighton did everything well
Don’t forget our system relies on the opposition making mistakes which are forced by movement. Brighton and Brentford made no mistakes, but we didn’t stretch them with movement.
 
paxtonwolf said:
Sunday must not be about him getting the Golden Boot. Its about getting it done and dusted, if it includes a few Son goals, all well and good, but we must not adapt our gameplay in such a way that we are trying to feed him if there are better options open
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Don’t think conte will allow that, and woe betide anyone in the dressing room that suggests it.
 
We're winning again
A crack in the clouds reveals blue skies
We've been feeling so low (low)
But now everything is on our side
The Son and the Kane.
Walk with me to White Hart Lane
 
glasgowspur said:
Don’t think conte will allow that, and woe betide anyone in the dressing room that suggests it.
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At least he deserves the full 90, Conte should give him just that.

Not getting ahead of ourselves but recent history:
  • 8th May Norwich 0 - 4 West Ham
  • 23rd April Norwich 0 - 3 Saudi Sportswashing Machine
  • 20th April Norwich 2 - 1 Burnley
  • 10th Mar Norwich 1 - 3 Chelsea
  • 5th Mar Norwich 1 - 3 Brentford
  • 12th Feb Norwich 0 - 4 Emirates Marketing Project
A normal game should be beating them by a couple of goals at least, with room for Sonny to get the Golden Boot.

Going further back to Boxing Day, it was Norwich 0 - 5 Arsenal.
 
metalgear said:
At least he deserves the full 90, Conte should give him just that.

Not getting ahead of ourselves but recent history:
  • 8th May Norwich 0 - 4 West Ham
  • 23rd April Norwich 0 - 3 Saudi Sportswashing Machine
  • 20th April Norwich 2 - 1 Burnley
  • 10th Mar Norwich 1 - 3 Chelsea
  • 5th Mar Norwich 1 - 3 Brentford
  • 12th Feb Norwich 0 - 4 Emirates Marketing Project
A normal game should be beating them by a couple of goals at least, with room for Sonny to get the Golden Boot.

Going further back to Boxing Day, it was Norwich 0 - 5 Arsenal.
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Definitely a 90 mins day, nothing to hold back for now. Also any pens should we be leading or late in the game if we are level or gooners not winning.
Do we have normal games?
 
thfcsteff said:
No, nothing like that IMO.

For me, it simply comes down to hoping that people are more studied in their observations and criticisms. Take Doherty. It was clear he was signed as a RWB, and immediately deployed as a FB. Not his best role. When played for a few games in his natural position, he was really good. But people were tripping over themselves to coat the bloke, with zero context. Royal the same. Even PEH, to the extent that his continual football/potential fatigue got ignored. The two who deserved it IMV, were LoCelso and Ndombele, with LoCelso a main offender for me as he simply did not seem to take things as seriously as I expect a first-team player with his talent to do.

No-one is beyond criticism. Everyone should be beyond unqualified and unreasonable criticism surely...
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
thfcsteff said:
No, nothing like that IMO.

For me, it simply comes down to hoping that people are more studied in their observations and criticisms. Take Doherty. It was clear he was signed as a RWB, and immediately deployed as a FB. Not his best role. When played for a few games in his natural position, he was really good. But people were tripping over themselves to coat the bloke, with zero context. Royal the same. Even PEH, to the extent that his continual football/potential fatigue got ignored. The two who deserved it IMV, were LoCelso and Ndombele, with LoCelso a main offender for me as he simply did not seem to take things as seriously as I expect a first-team player with his talent to do.

No-one is beyond criticism. Everyone should be beyond unqualified and unreasonable criticism surely...
Click to expand...
That's all fine and all. Unfortunately, the last bit shouldn't have to be said but there are 1-2 posters here who maybe need to take heed of that.
My issue is with posters who exhibit fanboy behavior.
"Player X can do no wrong, ever!"
That's really all I'm trying to get at.
 
papaspur said:
That's all fine and all. Unfortunately, the last bit shouldn't have to be said but there are 1-2 posters here who maybe need to take heed of that.
My issue is with posters who exhibit fanboy behavior.
"Player X can do no wrong, ever!"
That's really all I'm trying to get at.
Click to expand...
Those posters are well at home in the same basket as the unqualified and unreasonable.
 
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