Roberto Soldado

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Soldado

"Just talk in an ON GOING deal"

Ok well that's your prerogative to ignore what the club involved in the negotiations said BEFORE AND DURING the deal.....personally i would say that gives you a better indication of what's going on then a couple of news reports (and most still claim it was 26m).

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Soldado

I do however understand that no sane person can believe we would be stupid enough to spend 26m on a striker that delivers two goals from open play the whole season.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Official - Soldado

Ok well that's your prerogative to ignore what the club involved in the negotiations said BEFORE AND DURING the deal.....personally i would say that gives you a better indication of what's going on then a couple of news reports (and most still claim it was 26m).

find me a report stating we paid the 26m in one lump sum and you might have an argument.

going by logic we should all consider Bale still a Spurs player because we said he wasn't for sale


my prerogative is to evaluate all information and draw a conclusion. no less.

i will remember this next time you question any official line the club come out with.

 

[clevelandspur]

Re: Official - Soldado

People haven't just imagined this scenario though, I've seen several reports mentioning it, one this week in the Evening Standard for example. So it's not like it's being dreamt up in some kind of face saving exercise - there's ligetimate reason to base that opinion.

Newspapers always report the headline figure, yet i haven't seen one report explicity stating it was 26m in full and so it stands to reason, imv, that if there are reports saying the deal was brokered in installments or target based then there's probably more reason to accept this as the truth than otherwise.

Likely what you just said 13m up front and the rest over installments. If we sell him they aren't going to just waive the other money owed just because he didn't work out here? I don't claim to be an agent but almost every deal we have seen has add ons for incentives on top of the transfer fee. Like Bale/Modric winning CL or a sell on clause.

Just using common sense why would Valencia agree to 13m plus possible 13m in bonuses? It is a player they wanted to keep and that now will no longer be on their books and could care less how he adapts at his new club. If he tore his ACL in preseason for example they would be screwed, or in this case just played like ****

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Soldado

find me a report stating we paid the 26m in one lump sum and you might have an argument.

going by logic we should all consider Bale still a Spurs player because we said he wasn't for sale


my prerogative is to evaluate all information and draw a conclusion. no less.

i will remember this next time you question any official line the club come out with.

I think you've totally misunderstood what i've said.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Official - Soldado

Likely what you just said 13m up front and the rest over installments. If we sell him they aren't going to just waive the other money owed just because he didn't work out here? I don't claim to be an agent but almost every deal we have seen has add ons for incentives on top of the transfer fee. Like Bale/Modric winning CL or a sell on clause.

Just using common sense why would Valencia agree to 13m plus possible 13m in bonuses? It is a player they wanted to keep and that now will no longer be on their books and could care less how he adapts at his new club. If he tore his ACL in preseason for example they would be screwed, or in this case just played like ****

why wouldn't they? standard transfer fare as far as im concerned. transfer deals are complex negotiations - there's probably millions of tiny little caveats and such worked in to deals that we can only speculate on.

i agree though that if it was 13 +13 in 'bonuses' then there would likely be a clause whereby we have to pay a % of that bonus installment should he leave after only a season. after all one season is no fair amount of time for him to achieve any said targets

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Official - Soldado

I think you've totally misunderstood what i've said.

sounds like you are basing all your opinion on what Valencia have said publicly prior to the deal being completed, regardless of information which has come out since?

Valencia said they won't sell for less than 26m and so it must be the case?

that's the gist?

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Soldado

why wouldn't they? standard transfer fare as far as im concerned. transfer deals are complex negotiations - there's probably millions of tiny little caveats and such worked in to deals that we can only speculate on.

i agree though that if it was 13 +13 in 'bonuses' then there would likely be a clause whereby we have to pay a % of that bonus installment should he leave after only a season.

because they run the risk of not getting some of that performance based 'bonus'.

Tbh i think we're all misunderstanding what the other is saying. There is 3 scenarios in the soldado deal:

A) We paid 26m in a lump sump.

B) We paid a down payment and the rest in installments that equates to 26m

C) We somehow convinced Valencia to agree a deal where we pay a down payment (say 13m) and the rest in installment BASED ON PERFORMANCE (be it Soldado himself or the club)


B and C are completely different. One guarantees that the selling club will receive 26m (no matter ho long it takes) and the other has no guarantee.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Official - Soldado

well considering the reports have said 13m in target based incentives instead of monthly installments then im firmly in C camp, if the reports had said otherwise then my opinion would be different.

Valencia get to announce their 26m headline fee, saving face in the process and we get the player we want for a deal that suits us.

it's all pointless really, he was signed as first choice striker and no matter the cost he hasn't lived up to expectations.

 

[AberYid]

Re: Official - Soldado

Pretty sure Soldado is still a Valencia player, and only wears our kit publically to continue Baldini's 'publicity stunt' trip to Valencia.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Soldado

Valencia said they will not accept a penny less than 26m BUT are willing to negotiate on the structure of payment (ie installments). If they categorically state they will not accept a fee less than the minimum fee then there is no way scenario C could happen. Scenario C means they are indeed accepting a fee less than his minimum fee release because as stated...there is no guarantee they will receive the money.

Billy your point about Bale doesn't really make sense. When they announced it was a world record 86m deal....i very much doubt performance based incentives are included in that.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Soldado

well considering the reports have said 13m in target based incentives instead of monthly installments then im firmly in C camp, if the reports had said otherwise then my opinion would be different.

Valencia get to announce their 26m headline fee, saving face in the process and we get the player we want for a deal that suits us.

it's all pointless really, he was signed as first choice striker and no matter the cost he hasn't lived up to expectations.

Well no...they can't can they?

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Official - Soldado

we're going round in circles here - i put zero stock in what Valencia said re not a penny less than 26m, it literally means nothing to me with regards to how the deal actually worked out. it's bravado, it's trying to make themselves look good for their supporters - if that's the base of your opinion as to what we paid then i don't think there's much more that can be said on the subject tbh mate.

the deal was announced as 26m officially. how that fee is broken down ie installments and bonus payments etc is a grey area - Ive seen reports saying it was 13 + 13, ive seen none that suggest it was any other structure so im fairly confident that's the long and short of it.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Soldado

we're going round in circles here - i put zero stock in what Valencia said re not a penny less than 26m, it literally means nothing to me with regards to how the deal actually worked out. it's bravado, it's trying to make themselves look good for their supporters - if that's the base of your opinion as to what we paid then i don't think there's much more that can be said on the subject tbh mate

But your base of opinion is a couple of newspaper reports (with no quotes) meaning it can be considered just as useless. Fact is, there is no solid evidence either way.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Soldado

Performance based incentives are usually not included in the players price when it's reported.

That's why Lamela was firstly reported at 25.6m (or whatever it was) and others report it at over 30m. It's because that first figure is the set figure WHICH COULD RISE TO 30m based on performance...meaning the performance based figure was/is 5m.

So basically they would usually report it like "player X signs for x amount of money with a further x based on performance". They won't include the performance incentives in the overall figure (usually).

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Official - Soldado

But your base of opinion is a couple of newspaper reports (with no quotes) meaning it can be considered just as useless. Fact is, there is no solid evidence either way.

solid enough for you to argue, quite doggedly, against the opposing opinion though

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Official - Soldado

Performance based incentives are usually not included in the players price when it's reported.

That's why Lamela was firstly reported at 25.6m (or whatever it was) and others report it at over 30m. It's because that first figure is the set figure WHICH COULD RISE TO 30m based on performance...meaning the performance based figure was/is 5m.

So basically they would usually report it like "player X signs for x amount of money with a further x based on performance". They won't include the performance incentives in the overall figure (usually).

you mean like how this deal has been reported in several places as 13m + 13m in incentives?

anyway, that's it - im out :lol:

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Soldado

you mean like how this deal has been reported in several places as 13m + 13m in incentives?

anyway, that's it - im out :lol:

After the fact....and after it's been reported in another way previously.

Yes i'll take your lead tbh...i'm gone.

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: Official - Soldado

solid enough for you to argue, quite doggedly, against the opposing opinion though

yes Billy it's an opinion...i'm not diminishing yours and i'm also entitled to mine. Ok i'm gone now:lol:

 

[LutonSpurs]

Re: Official - Soldado

Have a look atthe robbie Keane deal and the Younes Kaboul deal to see how clever Levy is with purchases and clauses. Even the Darren Bent deal that afterward was reported to be a lot less because of clauses and add ons. It should be no surprise if it is the same with all of our deals. There is precedent.