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Redknapp

The Moonlit Knight said:
Yes, but two of them were away from home. Sunderland and QPR had terrific home records when we pulled up in town. I'd actually say one point from those two matches IS standard form for a team finishing 3rd to 6th. Stoke and Norwich were poor results. Stoke we played well, Norwich we did not.

Standard form will never happen to any team throughout the season, as thankfully there are always shocks. We aren't title contenders, and never were so therefore our deviation away from standard results was always going to be likely at some stage of the season.

People talk about dropped points, but what about points gained? A win against Fulham at their place (standard result would be a loss or a draw), or the point against Chelsea (standard result is a loss) or even beating Bolton in the run in (standard result would be a draw)?
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I do keep kind of agreeing with you but something makes me doubt it.

If standard form is loss away to any of the other top 8, draw away to any of the mid-table obscurity clubs, and wins against the relegation battlers away, then Arsenal would be being tested by those same barometers, and we would always end up on equal points.

But there has to come a point where we say 'ok, if we are aiming to be better than Arsenal, we need to get beyond standard and win a couple of away games where we are expected to drop points'. We managed it in the first half of the season at WBA, Fulham we didn't deserve to do it, Stoke we did deserve it so that kind of evens out, good win at Norwich, good point at Swansea, standard win against Wigan away, Wolves away, we were fairly comfortable in those games and pretty much deserved it.

We surely could be expected to get a non standard win in the second half of the season. To drop points at Villa was poor. QPR, Sunderland. Maybe we could have got something there. Only getting draws or unlucky losses is fine if we are saying 4th is our level, so we can be happy with the 'standard' form. But if we are saying third is our level, then we should have got a couple more points, from somewhere. Otherwise us and Arsenal are getting the same level of points each season as long as the squads remain roughly in the same bracket.

I don't really know what I'm trying to argue, as I don't blame Harry. I blame the speculation leading to a lack of confidence, and also utterly horrendous luck. But I just think we could have done slightly better...somewhere. A drop from 42 to 27 points from one half of the season to the other is crazy, when you see that the other teams roughly levelled out.
 
May I suggest the only way to resolve all this hullabaloooooooooooo?

We fight. Pro Harry v Harry Haters

I really do think this is the only way to resolve this matter.

The forfeit for the losers would be to get Bukkake'd (preferebly at the opening home game of 12/13 at half time in the middle of the centre circle)
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I don't really know what I'm trying to argue, as I don't blame Harry. I blame the speculation leading to a lack of confidence, and also utterly horrendous luck. But I just think we could have done slightly better...somewhere. A drop from 42 to 27 points from one half of the season to the other is crazy, when you see that the other teams roughly levelled out.
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One of the commentators on FSC makes a good point about scenarios like this

- Should the speculation have affected our results or players that badly, no absolutely not.
- Do players allow themselves that as an excuse? yes

I actually think the fact that quite a few of the games we got poor results from (either draw/loss), we didn't play that badly (1 or 2 exceptions) actually aggravated the issue. Instead of players just admitting they weren't good enough (e.g. didn't convert 1 out of 500 chances), they used the excuse of "well we are distracted by all this uncertainty"

So even though I back Harry, he has to shoulder some of that blame, he has to be the one to hold them to that "results just aren't good enough"
 
Raziel said:
One of the commentators on FSC makes a good point about scenarios like this

- Should the speculation have affected our results or players that badly, no absolutely not.
- Do players allow themselves that as an excuse? yes

I actually think the fact that quite a few of the games we got poor results from (either draw/loss), we didn't play that badly (1 or 2 exceptions) actually aggravated the issue. Instead of players just admitting they weren't good enough (e.g. didn't convert 1 out of 500 chances), they used the excuse of "well we are distracted by all this uncertainty"

So even though I back Harry, he has to shoulder some of that blame, he has to be the one to hold them to that "results just aren't good enough"
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Don't really doubt you to be honest, although I also don't believe that the players consciously thought 'brilliant, we've yet again dropped points but it doesn't matter because I can blame it on the manager not really caring because he's going to England' or anything like that.

During that speculation and subsequent bad form, the players got edgy. The passing wasn't as crisp. Frustration started to show easier. I don't think it was conscious, and I think that they wanted to win, and for guys like Kyle Walker and Sandro the opportunity to play in the CL again, when they know they probably wouldn't be able to force a move in the summer regardless, would have been important for them because they are good players.

I'd love to see a study on this, or some sort of psychologist come out with some insight into it. I just think that when form is good and confidence is high - in any walk of life - your mind is clear. You don't have to think. Everything comes naturally. Whether it's playing football at an elite level or going on the pull with your mates. If your mind is clear, the funny lines come out easier, and you have the balls to say that cheeky thing that might get you slapped but more than likely will have her laughing in hysterics. If you've just been made redundant the day before the lads holiday to Ibiza you're probably more than likely to have a bricky time because it's on your mind no matter how much you want it not to be.

And I think it's the same with our players. They weren't afforded the luxury of having a clear mind before they went out on the pitch, because it's an unsettling thing. If the manager who is giving you the instructions may be leaving, it makes you wonder whether you'll be at the club next season, whether a new man will rate you, whether the club might be starting a downward curve. They started snatching at shots, being slower with their passing, and letting their frustrations show. The killer pass or the perfect shot that seems to easy when everything around the club is settled just isn't coming, and everything seems like much more hard work.

It shouldn't have an effect, absolutely not. But I think it does. And not neccesarily because it's an excuse, but because it's an unsettling effect. So many games seemed to be in the second half of the season 'they closed off all the gaps and we just couldn't find any space to play in, we camped in their half for the whole game but just couldn't find a way through, we couldn't have done anymore' but it was no different in the first half of the season. Teams would still try and frustrate us but it didn't matter. Villa came to us and played with full backs as wide midfielders, absolutely looking to just stop us scoring. But we played a great game against them. The players suddenly lost the ability to break those teams down and I'd say it was largely down to not having the clear head that allows the creative instincts to flow naturally, and it was those instincts we needed to break down teams. It wasn't because of a lack of effort that saw teams outplay us, it was simply uninspired attacking play.
 
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DHSF said:
May I suggest the only way to resolve all this hullabaloooooooooooo?

We fight. Pro Harry v Harry Haters

I really do think this is the only way to resolve this matter.

The forfeit for the losers would be to get Bukkake'd (preferebly at the opening home game of 12/13 at half time in the middle of the centre circle)
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Fine by me. You'd have to catch me though ;)
 
What a thread! Don't know why people complain about abuse, this thread is hilarious and if u don't like it skip the argument posts and just read the on topic.

However the anti redknapp lot just don't seem to have the ability to form a proper argument. Listing every bad point (or quite simply putting a spin on it) is not a thoughtful analysis. Analyse everything and then make a conclusion. You could make a case for Ferguson to be sacked using the same tactics as the ppl in here.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Don't really doubt you to be honest, although I also don't believe that the players consciously thought 'brilliant, we've yet again dropped points but it doesn't matter because I can blame it on the manager not really caring because he's going to England' or anything like that.

During that speculation and subsequent bad form, the players got edgy. The passing wasn't as crisp. Frustration started to show easier. I don't think it was conscious, and I think that they wanted to win, and for guys like Kyle Walker and Sandro the opportunity to play in the CL again, when they know they probably wouldn't be able to force a move in the summer regardless, would have been important for them because they are good players.

I'd love to see a study on this, or some sort of psychologist come out with some insight into it. I just think that when form is good and confidence is high - in any walk of life - your mind is clear. You don't have to think. Everything comes naturally. Whether it's playing football at an elite level or going on the pull with your mates. If your mind is clear, the funny lines come out easier, and you have the balls to say that cheeky thing that might get you slapped but more than likely will have her laughing in hysterics. If you've just been made redundant the day before the lads holiday to Ibiza you're probably more than likely to have a bricky time because it's on your mind no matter how much you want it not to be.

And I think it's the same with our players. They weren't afforded the luxury of having a clear mind before they went out on the pitch, because it's an unsettling thing. If the manager who is giving you the instructions may be leaving, it makes you wonder whether you'll be at the club next season, whether a new man will rate you, whether the club might be starting a downward curve. They started snatching at shots, being slower with their passing, and letting their frustrations show. The killer pass or the perfect shot that seems to easy when everything around the club is settled just isn't coming, and everything seems like much more hard work.

It shouldn't have an effect, absolutely not. But I think it does. And not neccesarily because it's an excuse, but because it's an unsettling effect. So many games seemed to be in the second half of the season 'they closed off all the gaps and we just couldn't find any space to play in, we camped in their half for the whole game but just couldn't find a way through, we couldn't have done anymore' but it was no different in the first half of the season. Teams would still try and frustrate us but it didn't matter. Villa came to us and played with full backs as wide midfielders, absolutely looking to just stop us scoring. But we played a great game against them. The players suddenly lost the ability to break those teams down and I'd say it was largely down to not having the clear head that allows the creative instincts to flow naturally, and it was those instincts we needed to break down teams. It wasn't because of a lack of effort that saw teams outplay us, it was simply uninspired attacking play.
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Good post.

The difference between winning and losing most matches is just a few incidents in the entire 90mins. The finest of margins really. So any slight loss of focus for any reason can be enough for a playe to miss a chance or hand the opposition theirs. Yes the England nonsense did affect Spurs in my opinion.

I like Harry and would like him to stay. I'm less sure about the coaches he has surrounding him and think he could do with a number 2 that has more progressive methods and some experience coaching at the sharp end of the table.
 
parklane1 said:
Do not let facts get in the way of the ranters.
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The facts are simple. We finished 4th. It's our joint highest finishing position in the Premiership. We've finished top six (five!) for three consecutive seasons for the first time in donkeys years. The facts are simple, we're doing very well indeed!
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
The facts are simple. We finished 4th. It's our joint highest finishing position in the Premiership. We've finished top six (five!) for three consecutive seasons for the first time in donkeys years. The facts are simple, we're doing very well indeed!
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dont let the facts get in the way of the tossers
 
The Moonlit Knight said:
I struggle to see that logic personally. A lot of those wanting Redknapp out are happy for an inferior Manager to come in and us drop down the table in the name of "long term" improvement. Makes no sense to me at all.
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How do you know it would be an 'inferior' manager?

You make it sound like Arry is the be all and end all of the Spurs managerial pinnacle
 
ArcspacE said:
How do you know it would be an 'inferior' manager?

You make it sound like Arry is the be all and end all of the Spurs managerial pinnacle
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He has been in our recent history. Its a reasonable fear to worry we might get rid and end up with someone that lasts less than a season, que an exile of players and numerous "transition" seasons

Sent from my Nexus S using Fapatalk 2
 
ArcspacE said:
How do you know it would be an 'inferior' manager?

You make it sound like Arry is the be all and end all of the Spurs managerial pinnacle
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There arent many Managers who will get us into the top four. Harry has been tried and tested with us and has had a good track record for the past three n a bit years. He is much lower risk than the other candidates. Unless it is someone who has established himself such as Ancelotti, Mourinho etc then im sticking with Harry even if it is just another year.

Levy I am sure is gonna stick with Harry - why would he spend the money this summer then? Why buy Vertonghen or Remy etc if he 'knows' Harry will be leaving in a year? wasnt this the same excuse that people are bringing up for not spending last summer? why Levy didnt spend on the players we needed?
 
DHSF said:
There arent many Managers who will get us into the top four. Harry has been tried and tested with us and has had a good track record for the past three n a bit years. He is much lower risk than the other candidates. Unless it is someone who has established himself such as Ancelotti, Mourinho etc then im sticking with Harry even if it is just another year.

Levy I am sure is gonna stick with Harry - why would he spend the money this summer then? Why buy Vertonghen or Remy etc if he 'knows' Harry will be leaving in a year? wasnt this the same excuse that people are bringing up for not spending last summer? why Levy didnt spend on the players we needed?
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Levy is playing the long game. He will buy players because they are good for spurs. They would be good for spurs no matter who the manager is.


As for the 'not giving harry money because he might be leaving' as far as i am aware that is something that was created on forums like these to excuse our lack of spending. Truly, only Levy knows why we didn't spend, be it the market being too expensive, the players not being available or whatever else they might be.
 
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