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Quacks & Pseudoscience

i am not asking you to stop putting any brick you like into your kid.

I am asking you to say sorry for the damage you have done to so many because we trusted you and your pharma friends when you said the vaccines were safe.

You won't apologise because you don't give a brick and to apologise would be bad for business.
 
JPBB said:
i am not asking you to stop putting any brick you like into your kid.

I am asking you to say sorry for the damage you have done to so many because we trusted you and your pharma friends when you said the vaccines were safe.

You won't apologise because you don't give a brick and to apologise would be bad for business.
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And I asking you not to force me to put your brick in my kid.
 
JPBB said:
It's not working

There are so many vaccine damaged kids.

For every self serving link you provide I will show you a vaccine damaged child. I know who will win that competition

You say it is a coincidence. We are lying. We are stupid. And other trite reasons why it is more likely that the kids was struck by a meteorite. or they wore the wrong shoe.

The reality is that you don't care. All you are interested in is making as much money as you can.
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How are the studies self serving?

If there are so many vaccine damaged children, why don't the clinical trials support this?

The reality is, I do care. I support vaccination because I think that it is our best way of protecting the most people. If we stopped vaccinating children then we would very quickly see life threatening diseases become widespread.

I accept that as part of that, a very small number will have an adverse reaction. I wish that wasn't the case but I think that is far preferable to the alternative.

I do not have any financial interests in vaccination. My support of it us based purely on available evidence. If there was credible evidence of widespread harm caused by vaccination, I would change my mind.
 
JPBB said:
i am not asking you to stop putting any brick you like into your kid.

I am asking you to say sorry for the damage you have done to so many because we trusted you and your pharma friends when you said the vaccines were safe.

You won't apologise because you don't give a brick and to apologise would be bad for business.
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You really don't think good, emphatic, caring people can disagree with you on this question of evidence, science and reason?

Astonishing world view that actually demands you to think this of people for accepting the scientific consensus of experts in a field. Must be a scary looking world outside your anti-vaccine bubble. I actually feel sorry for you for thinking like this about a large group of normal human beings.
 
braineclipse said:
You really don't think good, emphatic, caring people can disagree with you on this question of evidence, science and reason?
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I have never heard anyone apologise for vaccination damage (other than those touched by it).

Certainly no one on this forum.
 
JPBB said:
i am not asking you to stop putting any brick you like into your kid.

I am asking you to say sorry for the damage you have done to so many because we trusted you and your pharma friends when you said the vaccines were safe.

You won't apologise because you don't give a brick and to apologise would be bad for business.
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I'll take that as a yes.

After all, you think vaccination is dangerous, therefore you presumably feel that no child should be vaccinated (it would be immoral to think otherwise), so you must think it better that they take their chances with preventable diseases. Which will mean a whole lot of them will die.

Personally I find that immoral, when we can prevent disease, but whatever floats your boat.
 
JPBB said:
No pharma business has ever apologised for vaccine damage.

They refuse to accept any blame.
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I am yet to see any evidence that the level of adverse effects from any vaccine currently in use is higher than the clinical trials indicated it would be.

It is of course, regrettable that anyone should suffer as a result of any medical procedure but we do not have an option where this is possible.

Licencing a drug for public use is weighing up probabilities and choosing the option that will benefit the most. Given this, what should the drug companies apologise for?
 
Seedy Ron said:
I'll take that as a yes.

After all, you think vaccination is dangerous, therefore you presumably feel that no child should be vaccinated (it would be immoral to think otherwise), so you must think it better that they take their chances with preventable diseases. Which will mean a whole lot of them will die.

Personally I find that immoral, when we can prevent disease, but whatever floats your boat.
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You are putting words in my mouth. i said the opposite. If you want to put brick into your kids I would not stop you. I do not doubt your good intentions

But when other follow your advice and their kids are damaged, I am asking you to apologise.
 
I follow the advice of the overwhelming balance of scientific evidence. So no, I would never apologize for that. That doesn't mean I would have no sympathy for someone who, say, suffered a severe allergic reaction to a vaccination (a listed potential side effect). But unfortunately that's part of the risk/benefit analysis. The vast majority of children do not suffer side effects and benefit from the protection offered.

I would assume, given your posts here, that you would advise that people do not vaccinate their children, as you think it is dangerous. Is that not the case, and if not how is it moral for you to advise something you feel is dangerous? If that is what you would advise, then presumably you think children are better to take their chances with preventable diseases?
 
Seedy Ron said:
I follow the advice of the overwhelming balance of scientific evidence. So no, I would never apologize for that. That doesn't mean I would have no sympathy for someone who, say, suffered a severe allergic reaction to a vaccination (a listed potential side effect). But unfortunately that's part of the risk/benefit analysis. The vast majority of children do not suffer side effects and benefit from the protection offered.

I would assume, given your posts here, that you would advise that people do not vaccinate their children, as you think it is dangerous. Is that not the case, and if not how is it moral for you to advise something you feel is dangerous? If that is what you would advise, then presumably you think children are better to take their chances with preventable diseases?
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I would never advise anyone not to vaccinate. I would advise them they have a choice. And it is worth listening to other side of the story.
 
JPBB said:
How many of those cases had been vaccinated?

How many of those people suffered permanent damage?

How many had underlying medical conditons
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I don't know but I do know that outbreaks like this are a result of low vaccination rates and some of those most likely to be impacted are people who cannot be vaccinated.

Let's not kid ourselves here, measles is a serious disease and can have severe complications. NHS website says:

Most people will recover from measles after around 7 to 10 days, but sometimes it can lead to serious complications.

It's estimated around 1 in every 5,000 people with measles will die as a result of the infection.

Who's most at risk?
Complications of measles are more likely to develop in certain groups of people, including:

  • babies younger than one year old
  • children with a poor diet
  • children with a weakened immune system, such as those with leukaemia
  • teenagers and adults
Children who are older than one year and otherwise healthy have the lowest risk of developing complications.

Common complications
More common complications of measles include:

About 1 in every 15 children with measles will develop complications like these.

Uncommon complications
Less common complications of measles include:

  • liver infection (hepatitis)
  • misalignment of the eyes (squint) – if the virus affects the nerves and muscles of the eye
  • infection of the membranes surrounding the brain and spinal cord(meningitis) or infection of the brain itself (encephalitis)
Rare complications
In rare cases, measles can lead to:

  • serious eye disorders, such as an infection of the optic nerve, the nerve that transmits information from the eye to the brain – this is known as optic neuritis and can lead to vision loss
  • heart and nervous system problems
  • a fatal brain complication known as subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE), which can occur several years after measles – this is very rare, occurring in only 1 in every 25,000 cases
Pregnancy complications
If you're not immune to measles and you become infected while you're pregnant, there's a risk of:

If you're pregnant and you think you've come into contact with someone with measles and you know you're not immune, you should see your GP as soon as possible. They can advise you about treatment to reduce your risk of developing the condition.
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http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Measles/Pages/Complications.aspx
 
JPBB said:
I would never advise anyone not to vaccinate. I would advise them they have a choice. And it is worth listening to other side of the story.
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You're consistently referring to other people vaccinating their kids as "putting brick in your kids". But you don't advise anyone on what to do. I mean, it would take someone with outrageous reasoning skills to imagine that you're suggesting that other people don't put brick into their kids...

I can only hope you're showing more caution in real life.
 
JPBB said:
How many of those cases had been vaccinated?

How many of those people suffered permanent damage?

How many had underlying medical conditons
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You don't get it? Populations drop below herd immunity and this kind of thing happens. This is what your side of the argument is responsible for.
 
braineclipse said:
You're consistently referring to other people vaccinating their kids as "putting brick in your kids". But you don't advise anyone on what to do. I mean, it would take someone with outrageous reasoning skills to imagine that you're suggesting that other people don't put brick into their kids...

I can only hope you're showing more caution in real life.
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Well, you would never force me to vaccinate my kids. And you don't seek to change my mind.

And I feel the same about you.

It's your kid. Your choice. I do not doubt your love for your children and your wish to act in their best interests.

Vaccinate as much as you like. It is a choice.
 
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